Markets and mysticysm

[mathsfreak]

By way of example, would we accept Newton’s view of the universe or the Church’s? Is your belief system based on science or the supernatural?

Excepting the last sentence, perhaps you could give an example of evidence dismissed because it is “too strange”. Are you talking of evidence or simply conjecture?


“Lack of evidence is not evidence” What do you mean by this?

Are you a maths grad?

Grant.

First question, I am influenced by science and religion as I think that they are complementary-despite the fact that there are some theories and ideas that do oppose each other. My ideas of what might be true are not limited to current scientific knowledge. I am willing to at least consider any strange tale although of course I realise there is a lot of stuff out there that is just crazy.

About evidence being strange, well sometimes the evidence might be dismissed because it is just some persons story. But I think if a person told a story about something normal everybody would believe them. Like I have often heaard stories about people who have claimed that serious diseases just went away overnight. Now there may be a 'natural' explanation or a not so natural one but often doctors refuse to believe it was anything supernatural.

As to lack of evidence, I just mean that something might be true but that the evidence is scarce so no one has found it yet. Like when they found this fish that they assumed had become extinct millions of years ago and then they suddenly found one (alive). The lack of previous evidence drew them to the conclusion that it didnt exist any more when in fact it did.

And no, sadly I am not a maths grad-I did econ but I love maths because it is so intriguing

 

[mathsfreak]

Why not ? The world is full of people spewing forth drivel and claiming they are victims of orthodoxy. They range from nutters to charlatans to the sincere but deluded. You could easily spend an exceedingly unproductive lifetime pursuing utter nonsense.

Yes that is very true. The best way to approach something is with open minded skepticism. Dont dismiss or accept before fully investigating. A useful approach for trading because you often hear a lot of conflicting views about methods and indicators.

 

[mathsfreak]

It is simply this. The (very) strange and somewhat uncomfortable world of quantum physics is far far stranger than any mystic could ever have dreamed up.

probably a stupid question given the subject matter but is it possible to explain briefly why it is strange and uncomfortable? I dont want to go on and on about it but I have sometimes seen QP and mysticysm linked.

 

[dcraig1]

probably a stupid question given the subject matter but is it possible to explain briefly why it is strange and uncomfortable? I dont want to go on and on about it but I have sometimes seen QP and mysticysm linked.

I forgotten most of the physics that I ever knew (which wasn't much as I was not a particularly diligent student) but I'll have a go.

Most of us have heard that elementry 'particles' such as photons or electrons display characteristics of both waves and particles. This in itself is pretty odd, but whether they are wave or particle depends on the observer. Their character is 'forced upon' them by the act of observation just as much as it is part of their intrinsic nature. Now this is very odd and raises some thorny philosophical issues about which there is lively debate. This is not just because our instruments are not good enough and disturb that which they are trying to measure, but rather is inherent in the nature of things. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle is one expression of this.

QM replaced the certainties of Newtonian mechanics with the probabilities of Schrodinger's wave equation. Inside an atom is not at all like a little solar system with electrons (planets) orbiting a nucleus (sun). Only probabilities can be assigned to the 'position' of electrons. Compare this with the planets whose orbits can be computed to any degree of accuracy. This is not because we need to build a better gadget to get inside atoms - it is their fundamental nature.

The fundamental principle of causality in physics was stretched to breaking point by QM. Does cause and effect strictly hold true when we are dealing with probabilities ? This may be the strangest bit of all because the notion of cause and effect is fundamental to the way we think about most things.

There is lots, lots more and I have probably misrepresent things a bit, but there are plenty of popular science books that are fairly accessable and readily available if you are interested.

 

[Patrik]

The chart is Dow Jones daily between 2004-2005. The longest is 1367. 1/1,367 = 0,732
A cube has a diagonal of 1,732 if the side is 1. 1/1,732 = 0,577
707 is there as well. Also Fib 382 618 and 786. squareroot 0,656 is half Phi
squareroot of 0,643 is 0,4142
1-4 points error over weeks and even months

 

[dcraig1]

The chart is Dow Jones daily between 2004-2005. The longest is 1367. 1/1,367 = 0,732
A cube has a diagonal of 1,732 if the side is 1. 1/1,732 = 0,577
707 is there as well. Also Fib 382 618 and 786. squareroot 0,656 is half Phi
squareroot of 0,643 is 0,4142
1-4 points error over weeks and even months

Please explain why the diagonal of a cube has anything to do with changes of price of a financial asset.

I prefer supply and demand or possibly perceptions of value by market participants as far more usefull concepts.

 

[Patrik]

This is not a discussion of what is useful but if there is a connection between mysticism and markets. As i said i have never been able to use this but i guess some can.
Perhaps the reason is what was said on that Crystalinks site. Have no idea really

 

[SOCRATES]

Like everything in life, there are degrees, in ascending rafts of awareness.

For example:~

There are those who do not work at all or do not think at all.

There are those who strictly work according to the ideas of others.

Then there are those one rung above who strictly work and think according to the ideas of others.

Then there are those who also work and think and incorporate their own ideas.

Then there are those who work and think exclusively according to their own ideas.

Then there are those who work and think according to their own ideas and incorporate others.

Then there are those who cause others to work and think according to their own ideas.

Then there are those who think and magical things happen.

Then there are those who just "are".


All of it is about thought.

Thought is everything.

 

[andycan]

The chart is Dow Jones daily between 2004-2005. The longest is 1367. 1/1,367 = 0,732
A cube has a diagonal of 1,732 if the side is 1. 1/1,732 = 0,577
707 is there as well. Also Fib 382 618 and 786. squareroot 0,656 is half Phi
squareroot of 0,643 is 0,4142
1-4 points error over weeks and even months

Patrik
there is no mysticism if you are the patrik i think you are you from sweden you know that geometry is fact which we have shown you a thousand times, the mysticism is held within the person trying to understand what the markets are and relate that mathematically
most cant understand the markets let alone interprete it geometrically
the rations you put up is double dutch to anyone that does not understand the true relationship which binds us universally

 

[SOCRATES]

Patrik
there is no mysticism if you are the patrik i think you are you from sweden you know that geometry is fact which we have shown you a thousand times, the mysticism is held within the person trying to understand what the markets are and relate that mathematically
most cant understand the markets let alone interprete it geometrically
the rations you put up is double dutch to anyone that does not understand the true relationship which binds us universally

He He, exactly.

 

[Patrik]

Patrik
there is no mysticism if you are the patrik i think you are you from sweden you know that geometry is fact which we have shown you a thousand times, the mysticism is held within the person trying to understand what the markets are and relate that mathematically
most cant understand the markets let alone interprete it geometrically
the rations you put up is double dutch to anyone that does not understand the true relationship which binds us universally

Andy from futures geo? Hi
Well i don´t know how geometry works. Have never been able to make it work. And as you know i payed thousands to a guy and worked as heee. So don´t blame me

I was trying to show some here that numerology and sacred geometry is real. Because the numbers are there.

 

[SOCRATES]

"And all of it is obvious"...as Pod G says...."it is obvious...it is screaming at you !"...LOL.

 

[dcraig1]

Patrik
most cant understand the markets let alone interprete it geometrically
the rations you put up is double dutch to anyone that does not understand the true relationship which binds us universally

This is a pretty strong claim - in fact an extraordinarily strong claim. Come on then, spell it out. Just what is the true relationship which binds us universally ?

 

[fibonelli]

For example

".........The golden ratio, also known as the god ratio, golden proportion, golden mean, golden section, golden number, divine proportion or sectio divina, is an irrational number, approximately 1.618 033 988 749 894 848, that possesses many interesting properties. Shapes proportioned according to the golden ratio have long been considered aesthetically pleasing in Western cultures, and the golden ratio is still used frequently in art and design, suggesting a natural balance between symmetry and asymmetry. The ancient Pythagoreans, who defined numbers as expressions of ratios (and not as units as is common today), believed that reality is numerical and that the golden ratio expressed an underlying truth about existence........".

Source:
http://www.crystalinks.com/sacred_geometry.html

 

[andycan]

Andy from futures geo? Hi
Well i don´t know how geometry works. Have never been able to make it work. And as you know i payed thousands to a guy and worked as heee. So don´t blame me

I was trying to show some here that numerology and sacred geometry is real. Because the numbers are there.

Hi Patrik
good to see you
not blaming you, you know it works but its a matter of walking before you can run
start from the beggining and work you way up take your time
if you keep at it it will click in time

 

[andycan]

This is a pretty strong claim - in fact an extraordinarily strong claim. Come on then, spell it out. Just what is the true relationship which binds us universally ?

its not a claim its a fact
a fact i have show a few times here and i show everyday somewhere else
those that know me know what im talking about
patrik that i have not spoken to for a few years knows what im talking about
i give you a clue
there is one universal language that is true
i cant make it any clearer

 

[andycan]

For example

".........The golden ratio, also known as the god ratio, golden proportion, golden mean, golden section, golden number, divine proportion or sectio divina, is an irrational number, approximately 1.618 033 988 749 894 848, that possesses many interesting properties. Shapes proportioned according to the golden ratio have long been considered aesthetically pleasing in Western cultures, and the golden ratio is still used frequently in art and design, suggesting a natural balance between symmetry and asymmetry. The ancient Pythagoreans, who defined numbers as expressions of ratios (and not as units as is common today), believed that reality is numerical and that the golden ratio expressed an underlying truth about existence........".

Source:
http://www.crystalinks.com/sacred_geometry.html

exactly but there is more

 

[alexander]

The fundamental principle of causality in physics was stretched to breaking point by QM. Does cause and effect strictly hold true when we are dealing with probabilities ? This may be the strangest bit of all because the notion of cause and effect is fundamental to the way we think about most things.

Physics never had a fundamental principle of causality. This is metaphysics. Physics has never dealt with the concept of causality except in a trivial counterfactual way (Had I not turn the switch on, the light would not have been turned on).

Even Newton made it explicit in his revolutionary work Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy that in his words:

... hitherto I have not been able to discover the cause of those properties of
gravity from phenomena, and I frame no hypotheses; for whatever is not deduced
from the phenomena is to be called an hypothesis; and hypotheses, whether
metaphysical or physical, whether of occult qualities or mechanical, have no
place in experimental philosophy. In this philosophy particular propositions
are inferred from the phenomena, and afterwards rendered general by
induction...’ Newton, Principia. ( I have underlined the word cause)


Thus, the Master said, whatever is not deduced from the phenomena is simply a hypothesis. Now in this tradistion set by the great Master, Alexander, the humble student will paraphrase as follows:

(c) Alex: for whatever is not deduced from price and volume alone is to be called an hypothesis; and hypotheses, whether metaphysical or physical, whether of occult qualities or mechanical, have no place in the trading business.

Alex

 

[Patrik]

its not a claim its a fact
a fact i have show a few times here and i show everyday somewhere else
those that know me know what im talking about
patrik that i have not spoken to for a few years knows what im talking about
i give you a clue
there is one universal language that is true
i cant make it any clearer

Hi Andy. Nice to see you to.
The Crystalinks site says this; "The universe, our reality, is created by thought consciousness which manifests in physical reality through a geometric blueprint that we call Sacred Geometry. It repeats in cycles giving the illusion of linear time so we can experience emotions"

 

[dcraig1]

(c) Alex: for whatever is not deduced from price and volume alone is to be called an hypothesis; and hypotheses, whether metaphysical or physical, whether of occult qualities or mechanical, have no place in the trading business.

Alex

Mostly. I'd add the order book for a day trader. It is the only visible aspect of supply side of the supply/demand pair.