Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

Remind me aren't you the one posting links to clips where people propose for government to take your tax away they need your permission?

Agree or disagree?


You are soooooooooooooo funny... :LOL:

Agree or disagree? I can't do either because I haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about. You are so random and mercurial that you are close to being the first person in history to make it on my ignore list...and I've been using the internet for over 15 years.
 
Agree or disagree? I can't do either because I haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about. You are so random and mercurial that you are close to being the first person in history to make it on my ignore list...and I've been using the internet for over 15 years.

You've hurt my feelings you have... :)
 
You've hurt my feelings you have... :)

Atilla, I know I’m going to regret asking this but curiosity has got the better of me.

Q: Which country or countries do you consider to be the good ‘apples’ and why? (In 50 worlds or less if possible)
 
Atilla, I know I’m going to regret asking this but curiosity has got the better of me.

Q: Which country or countries do you consider to be the good ‘apples’ and why? (In 50 worlds or less if possible)

If you already know then there is no point in asking dear NT. But you should also then know that you and I are on the same wavelength on a number of other points. :)

For those who are unlike NT;

1. Germany - Europes largest economy and probably the best run. Recently integrated with East Germany and managed to equate currencies and assets on par with the old DM. This is a great tribute to Germany imo.

Indusy and Banks work hand in hand and they take a longer term view of investments.

Industrial relations very good and work well together.

2. Northern European Scandinavian countries have high taxation but are well served with egalatarian approach to social issues. Low crime and good hard working well educated people. Some good world leading industries too.

3. Venezuela more recently has come on to the World international stage with Chevez distributing income and countries oil wealth and they have indeed seen a general rise in living standards.

4. Canada have open migration effectively to hard working well educated people and are doing well despite economic woes of many countries. Their banks having been shaken in the last 20 years are much better with risk management and less hungry to take big risks.

5. India has done well too on focusing on high tech solutions rather than manufacturing like China which requires heavy industry imports. Why not skip manufacturing and just go to service based composition in the economy altogether.

6. Ofcourse there is the new comer too like Turkey which has somehow achieved the biggest GDP growth to even the likes of China and India. Perhaps they are simply lucky Europe has rejected them from joining the club.

There are likely to be many other countries too but it's hard keeping to your 50 word limit.


Now to objective of the question is to look to see what they are doing different.

This is what the Japanese did after the 2nd World War when they went to the US to look at their car manufacturing processes. They not only copied it but they enhanced it by doing what they did better. R&D on quality builds and testing coupled with smaller but more diverse models and rapid development along with just-in-time deliveries they beat the US and the globe in car production.

Germans have a passion for engineering. Italians for design. French for being snobbish. (forgive my stereo-typing guys all fun and cheek ;) You get my drift.


Similarly compare it to the worst countries... eg the PIGS. Fraud, bad controls lack of checks, no one paying tax, excessive building waste due to poor planning and regulation and risk control. Ireland hardly charging any Corporation Tax. Lack of regulation and controls.

I'm thinking you might be a big fan of Greece with no tax controls or any regulation. I read somewhere they have 9000 registered people over the age of 100 claiming pensions.

Also look at UK and US fighting wars. Are any of the successful countries fighting wars or out on expeditions kicking ass. No they are busy working at home.

Don't know about writing 50 words but anyone with half a brain can write a paper on studying few case studies of half a dozen or so countries and look for similarities. Likewise for those failing ones. I would compare UK to Germany and France as they are our nearest equivalents but also add couple of others from each of the other continents.

Not rocket science is it.

You capiche?
 
Yes, you answered exactly as I expected you would but I just had to ask.

NT - but you already knew what I would say and I think my hunch re:your reply was spot on the ball too... ;)



Addenda: Have you noticed that the better ones have good / high levels of taxation on par with the UK or higher and also good distribution of income and wealth - all pretty much better than the UK.

Waddaya thinkabout that then?
 
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i > r

House prices to fall 10% by 2013

House prices to fall 10% by 2013 | News | Mortgage Strategy

Capital Economics adds that low mortgage rates have been supporting lending volumes, but they could soon start to rise as a result of the eurozone crisis, stifling demand.

It says: “Even without higher mortgage interest rates, households are rapidly approaching the point at which the benefits of previous interest rate cuts will have been completely eroded by the rising cost of living.”
 
i > r

House prices to fall 10% by 2013

House prices to fall 10% by 2013 | News | Mortgage Strategy

Capital Economics adds that low mortgage rates have been supporting lending volumes, but they could soon start to rise as a result of the eurozone crisis, stifling demand.

It says: “Even without higher mortgage interest rates, households are rapidly approaching the point at which the benefits of previous interest rate cuts will have been completely eroded by the rising cost of living.”


Yep heard these arguements before. Interest rates will rise and people with negative equity fall through a hole in the ground, losing their homes and property will crash anywhere from 25-50%.

You need to be choosy as to what you pick up Wikipedia or these so called experts dude.


Interest rates will not rise significantly because it will raise all the debt servicing costs to the billions owed by governments. The only people who want interest rises are self vested people like you with lots of savings and think they have job security.

Becareful what you wish for!

The policy stands solid i > r thus far and will continue to do so. Excesses will / should be taken out of the economy using taxation and thus further paying off G-debt.


This is simple economics and common sense. Do you not see?
 
Yep heard these arguements before. Interest rates will rise and people with negative equity fall through a hole in the ground, losing their homes and property will crash anywhere from 25-50%.

You need to be choosy as to what you pick up Wikipedia or these so called experts dude.


Interest rates will not rise significantly because it will raise all the debt servicing costs to the billions owed by governments. The only people who want interest rises are self vested people like you with lots of savings and think they have job security.

Becareful what you wish for!

The policy stands solid i > r thus far and will continue to do so. Excesses will / should be taken out of the economy using taxation and thus further paying off G-debt.


This is simple economics and common sense. Do you not see?

Had nothing to do with raising interest rates, dude.:rolleyes:

Also, give up with the vested interest nonsense. You have no idea of my financial circumstance, you are just guessing.
 
For those Like Atilla that missed it the first time,

It says: “Even without higher mortgage interest rates, households are rapidly approaching the point at which the benefits of previous interest rate cuts will have been completely eroded by the rising cost of living.”

In other words, the inflationist policy is starting to hurt the people and on top of this the Führer wants to take more from them in taxes.
 
And you are cherry-picking who you contradict even though others have made far more outrageous assertions. The statement was, and I quote "One does need good governance. Leaving things to free markets will lead to anarchy and collosal swings between extremes."

I have never argued for the right to form vigilante's or for individuals to be allowed to take the law into their own hands, or the right to pi55 in the street or to play loud music at anytime they want.

"One does need good governance. Leaving things to free markets will lead to anarchy and collosal swings between extremes."

So, do you agree or disagree?
Yes, I most definitely agree... It's quite obvious that "free markets", as they are practiced in contemporary societies, will not produce optimal outcomes.
 
For those Like Atilla that missed it the first time,

It says: “Even without higher mortgage interest rates, households are rapidly approaching the point at which the benefits of previous interest rate cuts will have been completely eroded by the rising cost of living.”
And what actual evidence do you have that interest rates cuts have actually been the cause of the rises in the cost of living? Absent this implicit assumption, households would have been hit by the rising cost of living without the benefit of interest rate cuts.
 
And what actual evidence do you have that interest rates cuts have actually been the cause of the rises in the cost of living? Absent this implicit assumption, households would have been hit by the rising cost of living without the benefit of interest rate cuts.

I think we should assume the interest rate cuts at the very least raised the growth rate of inflation otherwise we could start drawing conclusions that make absolutely no sense lol. Comparitive statics are our friend :)

Have to do this: Atilla you suggest setting i > r, did you mean i < pi? because no central bank can observe r. And we should be panicking if there was ever a time where i < r because that would mean inflation is negative - DEFLATION. and we only need to look to japan in the 90s to see the pain deflation brings to pretty much every agent in an economy.

pi = inflation in most economic literature and discussion
r = the real interest rate (approx i - pi, really r = (1+i)/(1+pi^e) - 1)
 
And what actual evidence do you have that interest rates cuts have actually been the cause of the rises in the cost of living? Absent this implicit assumption, households would have been hit by the rising cost of living without the benefit of interest rate cuts.

Spoken like a true Keynesian.:LOL:
 
I think we should assume the interest rate cuts at the very least raised the growth rate of inflation otherwise we could start drawing conclusions that make absolutely no sense lol. Comparitive statics are our friend :)

Have to do this: Atilla you suggest setting i > r, did you mean i < pi? because no central bank can observe r. And we should be panicking if there was ever a time where i < r because that would mean inflation is negative - DEFLATION. and we only need to look to japan in the 90s to see the pain deflation brings to pretty much every agent in an economy.

pi = inflation in most economic literature and discussion
r = the real interest rate (approx i - pi, really r = (1+i)/(1+pi^e) - 1)

i=inflation
pi=price inflation
r=interest rates

Whatever you say or use is no big deal. My point is clear. Negative rates of interest!



NT I appreciate what you are saying that inflation will erode real wealth whether house prices fall or remain static.

But this is also precisely my point that as most prices are sticky downwards inflation will facilitate the adjustment of prices over a period of time as some rise some remain static and some fall. This applies to all asset classes. Just one of the benefits of inflation... :cheesy:
 
Spoken like a true Keynesian.:LOL:

You don't know how funny you are. You talk about eroding consumer purchasing power disposable income etc yet you talk about raising rates to tackle inflation.

True but in each case you need to consider time lags t-1, t+1 you know the stuff don't you.

Let's have some clarity from you for once instead of silly links.
 
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