Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

[new_trader]

Where do people in this forum think that employment comes from? Is it from Government or from hard working entrepreneurs who risk their own capital? All this idiotic talk about full employment while robbing the wealthy...such stupidity it is beyond belief.

 

[China Diapers]

Depends who's, what type and the location of property we're talking about

Property is robbery! That is the war-cry of '93! That is the signal of revolutions!

Just saying man, careful what you wish for.

 

[new_trader]

Just saying man, careful what you wish for.

I don't think he has a clue what he wishes for. He owns more property than he needs but hates greed, he wants to be a successful trader but hates the idea of wealth and doing anything that isn't a public service...go figure...

 

[China Diapers]

That certainly is a paradox

 

[Atilla]

I don't think he has a clue what he wishes for. He owns more property than he needs but hates greed, he wants to be a successful trader but hates the idea of wealth and doing anything that isn't a public service...go figure...

You are too kind to me NT


Can you not see that people have had enough BS with capitalism and liberalisation of markets which only benefit the elite few and not the masses.

Arab spring is one thing but riots in the UK and now demonstration marches in the US? One must sit up and listen.


The only constant is change - embrace it or be purged.

 

[China Diapers]

What would you rather see in place of Capitalism?

 

[new_trader]

You are too kind to me NT


Can you not see that people have had enough BS with capitalism and liberalisation of markets which only benefit the elite few and not the masses.

Arab spring is one thing but riots in the UK and now demonstration marches in the US? One must sit up and listen.


The only constant is change - embrace it or be purged.

I am smart enough to see through Government propaganda and brainwashing. I can’t believe how successful they are at deflecting blame onto ‘the wealthy’. Do some research and see how much tax the wealthy actually contribute to the Government coffers in real terms.

What happens if you destroy capitalism and entrepreneurialism? Do you think we could replace it with a money printing press and public service jobs? You think that is the way forward for this country?

I have said it before and I will say it again, you are confusing Capitalism with Fascism but you either refuse to understand the difference or you are incapable of understanding the difference. Bailing out the banks is not Capitalism.

I bet your definition of wealthy will always be anyone who has more than you, which will be a sliding scale no doubt.

 

[Pat494]

You can't honestly believe in this list can you? Everyone keeps their jobs and everyone working for public service rather than greed? What utter nonsense. Steve Jobs dies and the world mourns the loss of one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our times. He gave the world macs, iphones, ipads and ipods and made Apple one of the worlds most valuable companies. There is no doubt that society benefited immensely from what he achieved, he did more for America and the world than any or all of those moronic protesters combined and what do you want to do? Discourage any future entrepreneurs from doing the same...vilifying success as if it is some kind of evil that must be purged from society...

I though this forum was filled with intelligent thinkers...What an Orwellian world this is.

It looks like you don't like the idea of fair rewards. Are you completely oblivious to the mounting anger and despair amongst the vast majority too ?
Learn the lessons of history NT. Let's hope the politicians can too BEFORE it's too late.
Have some sympathy for your starving neighbours. Life is more important than mere money.
The days of greed and selfishness are coming to an end hopefully.

 

[China Diapers]

I am very confused to be on a trading forum where regular posters are calling for an end to Capitalism.

Would trading be possible in a economy with no private ownership of the means of production?

Is trading just something you are doing to pass the time until the Marxists take over and everybody gets treated fairly?

 

[Pat494]

I am very confused to be on a trading forum where regular posters are calling for an end to Capitalism.

Would trading be possible in a economy with no private ownership of the means of production?

I am not proposing communism and the end of more reasonable capitalism,just a bit more fairness of rewards for a days work.

 

[new_trader]

It looks like you don't like the idea of fair rewards. Are you completely oblivious to the mounting anger and despair amongst the vast majority too ?
Learn the lessons of history NT. Let's hope the politicians can too BEFORE it's too late.
Have some sympathy for your starving neighbours. Life is more important than mere money.
The days of greed and selfishness are coming to an end hopefully.

It isn't about money or greed!!! We are in this mess because of Government and Central Bank policies...wake up!

 

[new_trader]

I am very confused to be on a trading forum where regular posters are calling for an end to Capitalism.

Would trading be possible in a economy with no private ownership of the means of production?

Is trading just something you are doing to pass the time until the Marxists take over and everybody gets treated fairly?

Exactly. It's like parasites voting to kill their host.

 

[new_trader]

I am not proposing communism and the end of more reasonable capitalism,just a bit more fairness of rewards for a days work.

How much employment did Steve Jobs create?

Bill Gates?

What about Mark Zuckerburg?

How much have these people contributed to society?

You talk about work as if it is a right. An employer risks their capital and works hard to build up a successful enterprise and employ people so that employer should be revered not derided!

Why do most people want to become successful at trading? So they can quit their job and yet you speak of work as if it is something to strive for.

This country would be in much better shape if there were more people greedy enough to become successful on their own rather than sponge off the state.

 

[China Diapers]

I was talking to this guy at work the other day, early 20's and had obviously seen Michael Moore's "Capitalism a love story" or some similar garbage and was giving a whole story about how much he dislikes Capitalism.

I explained to him that our boss, the guy who started the small company we work at, is a Capitalist who is "exploiting" us for our labour". Would he propose getting rid of our boss (who treats us very well) and run the company as some sort of cooperative? Would he be willing to share in the losses if the company went under? Does he think we have the skills to run the company?

He was very confused, he thought the Capitalists were the CEO's of the big banks and the major shareholders of Goldman Sachs. I suspect he is quite typical of Capitalism bashers.

 

[squall321]

I really am surprised that economics graduates/Phds etc. really can't come up with a better solution than reverting back to these 2 old imposters. Both their policies work a bit but are definately NOT the full answer.

Original and constructive thought is as rare as hen's teeth and as valuable as a dozen Fort Knoxes.

:smart:

economics is just sociology that has pretensions of being physics

 

[Atilla]

What would you rather see in place of Capitalism?

Enhanced capitalism with a fair system of distribution.

Volumes have been written and can't be bothered to type it out again.

Politicians and Chief Execs and Financial System, Pension Funds, Fat Cats it's all there.

We are not maximising profits we are maximising executive management rewards irrespective of whether they return shareholder value or not. Can you not see this are you blind.

Banks possess properties and get bailout.

Individuals are indebted to banks and end up paying higher prices and taxes.

Bankers continue getting rewards and bonuses instead of shoring up capital reserves.


Blah blah blah... Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[new_trader]

I was talking to this guy at work the other day, early 20's and had obviously seen Michael Moore's "Capitalism a love story" or some similar garbage and was giving a whole story about how much he dislikes Capitalism.

I explained to him that our boss, the guy who started the small company we work at, is a Capitalist who is "exploiting" us for our labour". Would he propose getting rid of our boss (who treats us very well) and run the company as some sort of cooperative? Would he be willing to share in the losses if the company went under? Does he think we have the skills to run the company?

He was very confused, he thought the Capitalists were the CEO's of the big banks and the major shareholders of Goldman Sachs. I suspect he is quite typical of Capitalism bashers.

Yes, Michael Moron...do you think he is making money from his films or is he doing it as a public service?

 

[Atilla]

I am very confused to be on a trading forum where regular posters are calling for an end to Capitalism.

Would trading be possible in a economy with no private ownership of the means of production?

Is trading just something you are doing to pass the time until the Marxists take over and everybody gets treated fairly?

China Diapers you may be new to this site but NT is one of those all me me me and mine mine mine type of characters.

We need capitalism to have a conscience and be fairer. Perfect competition and capitalism maximising profits etc is a load of text book theory based on out dated assumptions which are no longer valid.

I am for capitalism and never been against it. Being a capitalist with a social conscience does not make one a marxist.

 

[Pat494]

How much employment did Steve Jobs create?

Bill Gates?

What about Mark Zuckerburg?

How much have these people contributed to society?

You talk about work as if it is a right. An employer risks their capital and works hard to build up a successful enterprise and employ people so that employer should be revered not derided!

Why do most people want to become successful at trading? So they can quit their job and yet you speak of work as if it is something to strive for.

This country would be in much better shape if there were more people greedy enough to become successful on their own rather than sponge off the state.

I applaud Gates, Jobs, Buffett etc. Even they question whether any 1 person should have so much money while the guys down the road are short of a meal ! And so would anyone who has a human conscience.
The Gordon Gekko image of "greed is good" is about as absurd as Batman etc. Even most teenagers just treat such stuff as harmless fun. Grow up NT.

 

[China Diapers]

Enhanced capitalism with a fair system of distribution.

Volumes have been written and can't be bothered to type it out again.

Politicians and Chief Execs and Financial System, Pension Funds, Fat Cats it's all there.

We are not maximising profits we are maximising executive management rewards irrespective of whether they return shareholder value or not. Can you not see this are you blind.

Banks possess properties and get bailout.

Individuals are indebted to banks and end up paying higher prices and taxes.

Bankers continue getting rewards and bonuses instead of shoring up capital reserves.


Blah blah blah... Wake up and smell the coffee.

OK, fair enough. FWIW I don't agree with banks or any other business receiving taxpayers money but I don't think any company in any industry would turn it down.

If your answer to the fat cats situation is more regulation, I don't see it working but I will read the thread from the start before posting anymore.