Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

[dealer911]

The comment should have been "unless you have a method/system , proven and tested on real accounts OVER MANY YEARS ON MANY INSTRUMENTS , a method with a far superior edge"

O D T

One question though.. if you have a proven system tested over years etc why would you need to borrow money ?.. Sure borrowing £10k on your credit card to get started is one thing..but that should really be it.. wouldnt leverage up my house or anything like that.. the mrs would probably kill me..i mean really murder me!

 

[temporarilylight]

and if the market is always changing, wouldn't it be way too risky to really leverage up anyway?? What if today is the day that the market 'changes' and your system that he been great for the last 4 months is now useless and your trading it with highe size?

 

[oildaytrader]

One question though.. if you have a proven system tested over years etc why would you need to borrow money ?.. Sure borrowing £10k on your credit card to get started is one thing..but that should really be it.. wouldnt leverage up my house or anything like that.. the mrs would probably kill me..i mean really murder me!

If you have 10 k to trade with a system making 60% a year,you have annual income potential of 6k.

In addition there 800k of equity sitting on the shelter,50k available on Overdraft, 50k available on credit cards, 100 k on wife's jewellery.
Just remortgage and get 300k and start earning 180 k instead of a miserable 6k.
Compound it daily and increase earnings to 1m yearly and repay the 300k over 2 years, and buy the wife rolexes and cartiers and a chelsea flat.

 

[oildaytrader]

and if the market is always changing, wouldn't it be way too risky to really leverage up anyway?? What if today is the day that the market 'changes' and your system that he been great for the last 4 months is now useless and your trading it with highe size?

I only use dynamic systems to cater for changing market conditions.

 

[dealer911]

If you have 10 k to trade with a system making 60% a year,you have annual income potential of 6k.

In addition there 800k of equity sitting on the shelter,50k available on Overdraft, 50k available on credit cards, 100 k on wife's jewellery.
Just remortgage and get 300k and start earning 180 k instead of a miserable 6k.
Compound it daily and increase earnings to 1m yearly and repay the 300k over 2 years, and buy the wife rolexes and cartiers and a chelsea flat.

If you borrow £10 - leverage it 10x you have £100 k to play with- if your sytem returns 60% you make £60k... unless you mean you have a system that generates 6% and the rest is pure leverage.. either way i know that if my house and whole net worth was at risk in my trading account it would cause me some proper stress!..doesnt mean I am right just means my risk tolorence is far lower than ODT's and my wife will have to wait for the rolex.

 

[oildaytrader]

If you borrow £10 - leverage it 10x you have £100 k to play with- if your sytem returns 60% you make £60k... unless you mean you have a system that generates 6% and the rest is pure leverage..

you will find it impossible to get 60% without leverage.All calculations are after leverage.

Higher reward = higher risk, 6 % =600 pips a year on sound money management,6000 pip on 10 k with 10* leverage is great on good money management.

 

[thos]

Forget trading, the easiest way to get a small fortune is to own an airline.



Start off with a large fortune, then buy an airline.

 

[chart rider]

....or along the same lines, the easiest way to make a million from the markets is to start with two million.

However, there certainly are plenty making consistent money & making a living from the markets.

But, some one who's spent thousands of hours and dollars, putting in the required effort to develop a working system and can now reap the benefits from the system, why would that person now splash the system on the www for every body to see for free? One would have to be mad. Different if it were a face to face master/apprentice relationship, but on the web for the world to steal, no way.

So some one's focusing on making a living from a system that was costly to develop, and some one else wants to have a look not only at the system but also at confidential account statements! The very same statements declared for income tax purposes and all!

May as well ask for the keys to the house while you're at it.

Please note that this post is not aimed at anyone. Learing to trade is not easy, not quick, not cheap and takes alot of pain. Asking questions is fine, but the hard work is not dispensible.

CR

 

[meanreversion]

Hmmm. Richard Dennis proved to a limited extent that trading can be taught. His 'Turtles' made money from following his rule based system, with no intuition or smarts required.

 

[oildaytrader]

My estimate is that there is are 4 people on this site that are actually making money from trading.

Therefore - asking that question on this site will not get you the answer you need.

In fact, I'd say that leaving the internet well alone may be the best thing you can do in your search, either that or stop trying.

Good points.

Who in your opinion is actually make money solely from trading?How can you tell who is and isn't making money from trading?What about the 200,000 mermaids on this forum?

 

[gamma]

My estimate is that there is are 4 people on this site that are actually making money from trading.

Therefore - asking that question on this site will not get you the answer you need.

In fact, I'd say that leaving the internet well alone may be the best thing you can do in your search, either that or stop trying.

Obviously this chap above speaks from personal experience a losing one.
birds of a feather flock together.
I know a lot of traders who frequent this site and are successful.

 

[zupcon]

Obviously this chap above speaks from personal experience a losing one. birds of a feather flock together.
I know a lot of traders who frequent this site and are successful.

There are probably at least 5 or 6 decent contributors out of the 185,000 registered members.

Lets say I'm wrong by a factor of 1000 and there actually 5000 profitable traders out of the 185,000 registered members, you have to admit thats still a pretty small minority. So even assuming I'm a factor of 1000 out (and we ALL know that I'm not), the majority of advice handed out will be from losing traders. That should be a sobering thought for anyone deluded enough to believe they'll find anything of value on ANY trading forum.

The vast majority of members posting at T2W are completely clueless. The majority display the typical employee mentality of asking for step by step guidance. From my personal experience, I'm inclined to agree that trading forums do more harm than good.

Forum's are great for LULZ, but not much else

 

[gamma]

There are probably at least 5 or 6 decent contributors out of the 185,000 registered members.

Lets say I'm wrong by a factor of 1000 and there actually 5000 profitable traders out of the 185,000 registered members, you have to admit thats still a pretty small minority. So even assuming I'm a factor of 1000 out (and we ALL know that I'm not), the majority of advice handed out will be from losing traders. That should be a sobering thought for anyone deluded enough to believe they'll find anything of value on ANY trading forum.

The vast majority of members posting at T2W are completely clueless. The majority display the typical employee mentality of asking for step by step guidance. From my personal experience, I'm inclined to agree that trading forums do more harm than good.

Forum's are great for LULZ, but not much else

Do you consider yourself a decent contributor with your 1100 odd posts?

 

[oildaytrader]

Forum's are great for LULZ, but not much else

There are some good knowledgeable people around, and there is bits of very useful information out there, though 99 % of the information my be useless, its the 1% that is priceless.You just gotta be good at finding it.

I know at least 4 posters who are profitable, but I only know only a very small percentage of members,maybe 2 % of the members.

 

[oildaytrader]

Do you consider yourself a decent contributor with your 1100 odd posts?

About a couple of years ago ,he was advising against automation on metrader 4 .I have fully automated on metatrader4 and am happy.Its not the best but it is LIVEABLE with

 

[gamma]

There are some good knowledgeable people around, and there is bits of very useful information out there, though 99 % of the information my be useless, its the 1% that is priceless.You just gotta be good at finding it.

I know at least 4 posters who are profitable, but I only know only a very small percentage of members,maybe 2 % of the members.

Well pointed out there


Most profitable traders find T2W a a useful forum to exchange ideas.
you don't have to contribute to every debate to prove you are a good trader, like you say above, its finding the good info and using it that matters.

I know several people who Richards threads, to help them. look at the number of people who are listed on the"gb breakout thread" not all of them contribute to the debate, but I am sure take away something useful from it.Newtrons thread is another worth mentioning amongst several others.
There are several good threads where people obviously are successful
Newbies should gravitate towards these threads.

 

[zupcon]

Do you consider yourself a decent contributor with your 1100 odd posts?

No not at all, I do not consider myself a decent contributor. If the site where to impose a quality standard, very little would be published, and whilst that would undoubtadly make for a better user experience, it isnt really in sharkys interests so its not going happen anytime soon.

The point I'm trying to make is that with 185,000 members, there's a massive amount of noise, and the problem a new trader faces is how to filter that noise.

The situation isnt helped when the majority generally dont want to hear impartial sensible advice, and in the case of the small minority who do want to learn, there's noone they can actually trust to provide that advice.

If the sites objective was to assist traders it would be a problem, and a problem that would hopefully be addressed

 

[gamma]

No not at all, I do not consider myself a decent contributor. If the site where to impose a quality standard, very little would be published, and whilst that would undoubtadly make for a better user experience, it isnt really in sharkys interests so its not going happen anytime soon.

The site gets its income from adverts sponsorship etc etc and there's nothing wrong with that?
Why should sharky give up a good commerical site that is making money
And there are standards that members need to adhere to or the banning procedure comes about
The point I'm trying to make is that with 185,000 members, there's a massive amount of noise, and the problem a new trader faces is how to filter that noise.

A lot of traders register, not all all are acitve
at any given point there are no more than a 1000 online.

The situation isnt helped when the majority generally dont want to hear impartial sensible advice, and in the case of the small minority who do want to learn, there's noone they can actually trust to provide that advice.

The ones who want to learn no doubt have the intelligence to sort the wheat from the chaff

If the sites objective was to assist traders it would be a problem, and a problem that would hopefully be addressed

The site does assist traders what it does not do is hold their hand and spoon feed them.

 

[zupcon]

The site does assist traders what it does not do is hold their hand and spoon feed them.

You are of ourse entitled to your opinion, but the truth is, sites such as T2W are a hinderence. Trading forums provide entertainment, and they provide advertising revenue for their owners, but they assists noone.

I'm probably understating the case, they are much more than a hinderence, they are probably THE major obstacle that stands between success and failure, and anyone whose remotely serious about developing the skills theyre going to need really shouldnt be wasting their time reading nonsense written by predominantly unsuccessful people on a trading forum.

It really is that simple.

 

[oildaytrader]

You are of ourse entitled to your opinion, but the truth is, sites such as T2W are a hinderence. Trading forums provide entertainment, and they provide advertising revenue for their owners, but they assists noone.

I'm probably understating the case, they are much more than a hinderence, they are probably THE major obstacle that stands between success and failure, and anyone whose remotely serious about developing the skills theyre going to need really shouldnt be wasting their time reading nonsense written by predominantly unsuccessful people on a trading forum.

It really is that simple.

Trading forums also provide revenue for owners from indirect sales of books,mentors ,software,signal services,paid private rooms,subscription areas,system sales and sales of expert advisors.