How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market?

[Black Swan]

Hi Claudia,
I'm surprised to see you jumping on the 'bash a vendor' bandwagon. I expect your post is well intentioned, but in my view the anti vendor lobby don't apply sound logic or reasoned thinking to their argument.

There are loads of very dodgy people and companies out there selling rubbish and charging a lot for it. There's little doubt about that. However, it is quite wrong to tarnish all vendors as rubbish. There are lots of good ones who offer a good product / service and who have lots of happy customers. E.g. Mr. Charts. He is a very well respected member here on T2W and a well known vendor and I am one of his happy customers. And there are many good reasons why they sell their services and products besides just trading in obscurity. Additionally, I think it's fine for mechanicaldaytrader (ex) students to dismiss his methodolgy as "rubbish" if that's their view based on their experience of his materials. If you are a (ex) student of Stuart's, then I accept your view, otherwise your obsevation is both unfair and unfounded.


So long as the trader is able to distinguish between a trending market and a rangebound market, there's nothing much wrong with a simple MA crossover system. Although I suspect your comment wasn't aimed at the mechanicaldaytrader specifically, Stuart's methodology is a far cry from a simple MA crossover system. Just looking at his website and his posts to this thread will reveal that there's rather more to it than that.


Of course you're right that those who make money do so at the expense of the losers. I suspect that many of the losing traders have never paid for any tuition and think they can enter the market and make money from their hope and pray trades. If more people paid out good money for good tuition, they might lose less in the markets. There is a place for good tuition in trading, just as there's a place for good tuition in any other sphere of human endeavor. Have you - or anyone you know - ever been to an evening class and really benefited from it? Well there you go - why's trading any different? The really important point in all of this is to distinguish the good vendors with a good product or service to sell at a fair price from the numerous scam merchants. That is a more complex issue. But, the notion that all trading vendors are evil crooks who only pedal their trashy wares because they can't trade themselves is totally ludicrous.
Tim.

Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.

 

[Claudia123]

Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.

Which really was my point to start with. Tim made a very good post but i still say these systems are worthless. Mr Charts teaches people to trade on a 'one to one' basis as I understand it - and that is different.

To pay thousands of pounds/euros whatever to be given a system that is based on ma's and the such is crazy. And no 'system' will hold up long term due to changes in market conditions.

Being taught to trade by a pro is fine - relying on other peoples 'systems' and/or signals is asking for trouble. To me you are not then in charge of what you are doing.

I think close to zero is a very good call. If anyone can tell different let's hear from them.

 

[timsk]

Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.

Interesting Black Swan!
Your post implies that the only successful home based retail traders are those who are self taught. Am I correct is deducing this and, if so, why?

 

[bfirth]

Interesting Black Swan!
Your post implies that the only successful home based retail traders are those who are self taught. Am I correct is deducing this and, if so, why?

hey timsk,
My opinion would be that people who go for the easy way ie. "buy this system, do no work ,and get rich" are people physiologically unsuitable to trade. they want others to tell them they can do it when the only person who can do that is themselves.
Same for the people giving the argument "prove that you make money then ill let you teach me" now don't get me wrong you need to ask, is this a con or not? but just because somone makes a ton of money means diddly squat for you, as once again its up to YOU to make yourself successfull.
Alot of people seem to miss this, and this will make success hard/impossible for them,sad but true.
(this happens in all walks of life not just trading btw)
cheers Bry.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

I just realized something reading this thread. I am pretty sure Stuart did his impersonation act here by posting as aussiepearson. Notice how someone asks about recommendations and then magically aussiepearson makes his one and only post on this board. He is from Florida and has Stuart's tell tale ... style of writing just like floridadaytrade from the elitetrader thread. Seriously, this is my last last followup on this scammer. You have all been warned at this point, so just stay away from this guy.

glad to hear it's your last last post....nice of you to throw mud and not take any responsibility to find out if it's true or not.

AussiePerson is a client I actually shook hands with; he lives about an hour from where I hang out when I am in SE Florida. We met last December when I was in the USA. He is extremely analytical and has done yeoman's work - there is a spreadsheet or two of analysis that he has done of my methodology on the subscriber FTP server that is outstanding analysis. He's recently upgraded to the Tradestation software and was in a training meeting last Thursday.

#1 people ask for my customer's feedback, so when some customer makes a post, folks can send an email to the MODS and have them check out the IP or cookie.

#2 send an email to aussieperson asking who he is; assuming his profile accepts an email or private message he'll respond.

#3 send an email to me and I will forward it to aussieperson; assuming he follows up with you - you can ask any questions you might have of him.

Of course, this guy makes posts, makes allegations, then when confronted admits he doesn't know the methodology, and won't accept backtested provable results that are 100% objective...so he runs away scott-free, anonymously throwing mud without taking any responsibility for alleging the "snake oil" I profess doesn't work...when it is provable and is used successfully and there are posts on this Forum stating that.

I totally sympathize with anyone that considers any vendor to be peddling snake oil, that's why I would insist that it be provable and have a moneyback guarantee.

....meanwhile, back to training a newbie...he's got some Module II homework ready for me....

sk

 

[vrtrop22b]

Well, I will take the bait. Stuart can you explain what your goal is offering this "methodology"? I think it is to line your pockets but what do I know. As I said Stuart, me and my friend/coworker were students of yours in 2006. I remember he was so psyched about about the prospect of quitting our job to trade full time, as was I, but him in particular. Remember you said 3 to 4 months and we would be making enough to leave our jobs. I think 5 months in (3500$ +500$ beginners course) I became so disillusioned with your stuff I bailed but my buddy stuck with you all the while he was losing cash on top of paying you 750$ a month. He bailed 2 months or so after I did. As mentioned, I had bailed in desperation but I remember that he asked just be be able to watch you do some live trades. Of course, you weaseled completely out of it because you are a scammer. Also, why is it it that you have this constant churn of newbies but never have any successful seasoned students. That is what I want anyone thinking of getting mixed up with you to understand. You make money from the churn. A student gets disillusioned then leaves after a few months but 2 or 3 newbs come in right behind them. Stuart you can't fool me. I think most of the people on this thread understand what you are. I tried to bait you in the elite thread by posting a trading log but till this day you haven't posted a single 1. Honestly the point isn't even if you trade/can trade, it is whether what you are selling will help others trade. I don't think it does. You are selling the system prove me wrong.

 

[mrsoul]

Not True rathcoole:

as both a momentum trader and a reversal trader, principally using pivot points to either fade or jump on momentum, I'd have to partially disagree with your post. It's very short-sighted only to focus on reversals, and I humbly submit it is one of the key factors in newbies failure rates. There's something, after all, to be said for buying strength and selling weakness

if u can't accept that only 2 or 3 trades out of 10 will be small winners, & that 2 or 3 will be scratched for even & that 3 or 4, even 5 will be losers, with possibly only 1 in 10 trades being "payday" then u shouldn't even consider trading

Not true rathcoole.
Perhaps on breakout sytems or something similar.
However,there are many other ways to make money, with different win/loss ratios and different r/r ratios.

-Take whichever way works-
Bruce Lee- Jeet Kon Do

 

[timsk]

Hi vrtrop22b,
The reason that you and your friend are so dissatisfied is entirely your own fault and has very little - if anything - to do with with Stuart and his methodology. The reason is outlined very well by 'bfirth' in post #104, on the previous page of this thread. You can be forgiven for making that critical error that so many newbies make when paying for tuition, which is to abdicate all responsibility for their own actions or inactions. Contrary to popular belief, your contract with Stuart was not that he should make you rich or, even, that he provides you with the holy grail so that you can make yourself rich.

I'm mindful of an ad' for MG sports cars from the late 60's / early 70's, which featured a gorgeous model wearing a low cut top and a mini skirt. She was reclining in an open topped MG - as far as that's possible - with her legs splayed apart. I forget the strap line of the ad', not that it really matters. As a young teenager at the time, the implied message was very clear: drive an MG, and women like the model in the ad' will want to know me, hopefully in the biblical sense. It's a tactic that's been used to great effect by the motor trade ever since. The question is, how many overweight, balding, triple chinned middle aged men (as I am now) that buy these cars, actually believe in their heart of hearts that young women like the one in the MG ad' are suddenly going to find them attractive? Unpalatable as the cold hard truth is, I have come to terms with the fact that women won't actually drop their knickers for me based exclusively on the type of car I drive. Life sucks sometimes.

Stuart's sales pitch is fairly 'full on'. Indeed, Stuart is fairly 'full on', autocratic at times and very gung-ho! And why shouldn't he be - he is who he is and he wants to sell his courses just like MG wanted to sell their sports cars. That you believed every word verbatim, says rather more about you than it does about Stuart and his methodology. I apologize if that sounds harsh. If it makes you feel any better, I made exactly the same mistake myself many years ago. I ended up feeling ripped off and bitter towards the trading coach who told me I'd soon be making ££££'s every day trading his methodology. On top of the cost of the course, I lost hundreds of pounds. But, in retrospect, the fault lay with me and not with the coach. Anyone, anywhere who hands over money and thinks they've entered a contract in which the coach has agreed to make them rich is just being plain naive. That's just too simple; the world doesn't work like that. It's you and you alone who will make you a successful trader. No one can do it for you. Can Stuart's methodology help you to achieve that goal faster than you might otherwise do on your own? Yes, quite possibly. Certainly, there's nothing in your posts or those of the other detractors that leads me to conclude that his teaching will extend the learning curve rather than shorten it, or in in way hinder the chances of wannabe traders from reaching the goal of consistent profitability. The key point in all of this is to realise that your profitability (or lack thereof) has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the merits and value (or lack thereof) of Stuart and his methodology. Just think how many refunds MG would have had to pay out because the men who bought their cars didn't get more sex.
Tim.

 

[vrtrop22b]

Points taken timsk. I accept everything you say as valid. I used my negative experience with Stuart as motivation and I trade the DAX & FTSE future early US mornings and work a '9-5' until I have built a stash where I feel comfortable trading solely. My only point is why give Stuart any cash beyond the fundamentals of futures class he offers. He will make newbies believe riches are possible with his method and they are not. If I would have been able to see a thread like this one and on elite trader back in 2006,it would have probably made me bail out on him even sooner. I feel like I have the responsibility to say this stuff doesn't work to others leaning towards Stuart. The way I trade now has very little to do with any of Stuart's "methodology". What I am saying to newbs is invest the time developing your own method through trial and error. Where I disagree with you is that the methodology is unworkable in real life trading. It generated as many false signals as valid ones. Timsk what do you think of my main issues with Stuart: 1) no provable success rate after 4+ years of peddling his system 2) apparently not trading his own system - remember he said trading was a "burn out profession". Those are big time red flags if I every saw them. Also, I wasn't the guy who was banned from elitetrader for making up aliases to pump my system. Is that the kind of person you want to sink around 5k of your hard earned money with? The burden of proof is on the system vendor.

 

[timsk]

Hi vrtrop22b,
With respect, I fear you've rather missed the point I was trying to make. That's probably my fault, as I don't always express myself as clearly and as succinctly as I should. Allow me to clarify . . .

Points taken timsk. I accept everything you say as valid. I used my negative experience with Stuart as motivation and I trade the DAX & FTSE future early US mornings and work a '9-5' until I have built a stash where I feel comfortable trading solely.

Sounds like a very good plan to me, although I don't envy your very early starts!

My only point is why give Stuart any cash beyond the fundamentals of futures class he offers. He will make newbies believe riches are possible with his method and they are not.

You don't know that! (If you do, please provide the evidence.) All you know is that it didn't work for you. You don't know - and can not know - how well someone else will or won't do trading Stuart's methodology.

If I would have been able to see a thread like this one and on elite trader back in 2006,it would have probably made me bail out on him even sooner. I feel like I have the responsibility to say this stuff doesn't work to others leaning towards Stuart.

It's absolutley fine for you to say that Stuart's approach didn't work for you and to point out the many pitfalls as you see them. That's a worthwhile exercise and prospective students can read your comments and make up their own minds. But you'll likely experience this exact same problem in the future if you ever look to others for help with your trading (and pay them for it). None of them can trade for you and make you rich. You have to do it for yourself and, for the most part, they (the coaches) won't be looking over your shoulder to make sure that you do it right. I don't doubt that Stuart's point that students don't do the 'homework' and learn the methodology thoroughly is a very valid one.

The way I trade now has very little to do with any of Stuart's "methodology". What I am saying to newbs is invest the time developing your own method through trial and error.

No one would dispute the merits of this - which is sound advice. However, it's also reasonable to think that a little paid for tuition along the way will help to accelerate the learning curve and to increase the slope of the equity curve.

Where I disagree with you is that the methodology is unworkable in real life trading. It generated as many false signals as valid ones. Timsk what do you think of my main issues with Stuart: 1) no provable success rate after 4+ years of peddling his system 2) apparently not trading his own system - remember he said trading was a "burn out profession". Those are big time red flags if I every saw them. Also, I wasn't the guy who was banned from elitetrader for making up aliases to pump my system. Is that the kind of person you want to sink around 5k of your hard earned money with? The burden of proof is on the system vendor.

"Where I disagree with you is that the methodology is unworkable in real life trading. It generated as many false signals as valid ones." This doesn't really help any prospective student make an objective assessment of Stuart's services. Why? Because he will deny it - as he's done and then it's your word against his. If you believe that not only will it not work for you but, also, it won't work for anyone else either, then you have to demonstrate that and provide some solid evidence. Show the trades signaled by the methodology that failed. Lots of them. Of course there's one or two, but Stuart doesn't claim 100% accuracy.
Re. your numbered points:
1) Virtually impossible to do. In the 7-8 years of being in and around this business, I've never come across a single vendor who claims to be able to provide such proof. Personally, I wouldn't bother asking for it anyway because it's meaningless. The reason it's meaningless is because it makes absolutely no difference to me. If all of Stuart's students became zillionaires in a week, it doesn't mean I would too. If they all blow their accounts in a week, it doesn't mean I would too. Other people's experience has little or no bearing on my experience. It's akin to saying that you don't like Marmite and telling people not to buy it. I love it and think everyone should at least try it once.
2) My understanding is that he has in the past and will do so again in the near future. He has said that he will post fully audited trades in the near future - so let's give him the opportunity to keep his word. I agree with you that if he never traded his own methodology - that would be disappointing and surprising. Equally, there's no reason why he should trade it each and every day if he doesn't need to or want to. It's not for us to tell him how to lead his life.
3) The issue of him being banned on E.T. was not good and he clearly has a black mark against his name on that front. It was a silly thing to do and doesn't look good at all. But, I for one, wouldn't dismiss his whole methodology based on one error of judgement. After all, we're all human - we all make mistakes.
Tim.

 

[vrtrop22b]

Is Curtis Faith not proof of Richard Dennis' ability to mentor and teach? I am totally lost of how you can say that after 4 years there is no way to have any 1 of his students say post a few days worth of trading logs showing the 100 ticks he guarantees. I will respectfully say that we can agree to disagree about the validity of this "dayraider" nonsense.

 

[timsk]

Hi vrtrop22b,

Is Curtis Faith not proof of Richard Dennis' ability to mentor and teach?

No, the exact opposite. If you'd read his book (Way of the Turtle by Curtis M. Faith) - you'd know that not all of the Turtles made it. Guess what the ones that failed did? You guessed it, they blamed Richard Dennis and his teaching. Curtis Faith writes:
"I remember one in particular (of the other Turtles) who was convinced that Rich (Richard Dennis) had given me and a few of the others secret rules that he had not shared with the class at large. That idea was completely ludicrous. Why would Rich intentionally leave out important information and then give traders his own money for them to lose, not to mention losing his bet (with William Eckhardt, his friend and business partner)".

He goes on to write:
"The idea that Rich had left out some key ideas was the easiest way for our paranoid Turtle to explain his inability to trade successfully during the program. This is a common problem in trading and in life. Many people blame their failure on others or on circumstances outside their control. They fail and then blame everyone but themselves. Inability to take responsibility for one's own actions and their consequences is probably the single most significant factor leading to failure."

I am totally lost of how you can say that after 4 years there is no way to have any 1 of his students say post a few days worth of trading logs showing the 100 ticks he guarantees.

I repeat yet again that the student's ability or lack thereof to make the profits does not in any way reflect the validity of the methodology. That said, if you want a positive review, look no further than Pitbull's post #70 on page 9 of this thread. I recommend you pay particular attention to the final short paragraph. Lee writes:
My due diligence of mentors led me to a shortlist of three top futures traders/trainers. Stuart came out on tops after an initial chat as the other 2 S&P traders focussed more on scalping the order book with big size. This did not appeal to me, but Stuart’s method of catching every reversal and staying in the trend for 90% suited me. Stuart knows the Dow like the back of his hand after 12years watching and trading the same market day in day out. Potential students must be serious about trading and earning v.good money as Stuart does not want time wasters. The most important part of Stuart is his teaching and his passion of how good the method is, he literally has it cracked! What he describes is, in my eyes, complex and extremely technical but he makes sure you don't move onto the next part until it is fully understood. You do have to do your homework and start thinking for yourself and not just having it handed to you on a plate. Some people would disagree with this, but in my experience, a lazy trader who cant think for themselves or take the initiative and back test the theory, will IMO not be successful. It does take 3-4 weeks to memorize and back test the theory. Stuarts method starts at the ground roots, how to read a chart, even this opened my eyes, then you learn about the reversals specific to the Dow. Then you learn about institutional mechanical systems and 5 day money flow and where they take positions to hold overnight. Yes you can even trade with the institutions overnight. Then you learn to identify every reversal that happens, you can describe a whole days worth of trading and explain why it reversed. Lastly there are behaviors that are only exhibited by the Dow. After you’ve worked out if the mechanicals are long or short, you wait for your reversal rule, which has to coincide with 2+ Dow behaviors, then you learn about how to take low risk entries in Dayraider. Dayraider has proprietary indicators that graphically display optimum entry and exit points. It is not a signal system, be careful here, it is a methodology that still requires some discretion and judgment. The learning materials are awesome, there are many streaming videos and you have unlimited support for a whole year, none of this 1-2 months support that some mentors offer, you can just skype Stuart whenever which is really handy.

I used to believe that the indices had no movement, well if you catch every reversal which I am 70% there, then you got yourself, 10-18 low risk reversals ranging from 30-200 points each. Yesterday we had a 100 point downtrend, with 2 20-30 point pullbacks, then a 100 point uptrend with 3 20-30 point pullbacks. By my calculations that’s 350 points average. Already this week, 3 days, I have made 800+ points.

I will respectfully say that we can agree to disagree about the validity of this "dayraider" nonsense.

Indeed, we have each made our points!
Tim.

 

[vrtrop22b]

timsk, you are quite the advocate for Stuart. To poke a hole in your story, remember Dennis had multiple successful students. Jerry Parker, Liz Cheval, etc. If I failed under Richard Dennis' mentorship and studying his methodology, then I would say that there is something about me lacking if people who trained with me were verifiably successful. Who are Stuart's Faith, Parker, and Cheval. That is all I ask. Not to hammer this into the ground but 4+ YEARS into this for Christ's sake. When I was with him he had a guy in Northern California named Dave who he himself called his track star that was not making money. Timsk, I just don't get you defending this guy ...... it's puzzling to me.

 

[timsk]

Hello again vrtrop22b!
I can't trade name for name with you the failed Turtles Vs the successful ones, as it's human nature to overlook the failures and write about Curtis Faith and the other successful traders. But, as my extract made clear, there were failures; they weren't all universally successful by any means. The reasons why Stuart's successful students (other than Lee) don't come forward could be numerous. Perhaps they aren't members of this forum. Sure enough, they could join, but the 'bash a vendor' lobby would jump down their throat if they posted a glowing review with their opening post. If he wanted to, Stuart could easily get a few friends to join and do just that in return for a few beers. But there's little point. Other than that, if you're a happy subscriber trading his methods successfully - and happen to be a reasonably well established forum member - would you really want to get embroiled in this debate? Of course not, you'd be too busy making those 100 points or more each day!

In spite of how it might appear, I'm actually not 'quite the advocate for Stuart' that you think I am. However, I do have a bee in my bonnet on the subject of trading coaches, so I will stick up for any and all of them that are maligned unfairly. As soon as concrete evidence is provided that someone is a snake oil salesmen out to rip off green newbies, I'll stick the knife in and hound 'em out of here faster than you can say holy grail. With the exception of multi nicking on ET, I can't see that Stuart has done anything wrong. Back your claims up with something other than a few wishy washy anecdotes and I'll happily - and quickly - update my view to reflect the facts.

Anyway, I think we're about done on the subject, but you're welcome to have the last word if you'd like to . . .

Tim.

 

[Jumpinjack]

Trading

Just had a thought...ANYONE that says I am a scam artist I have the following challenge:

pick any 5 dow trading days in a row
meet with me via WebEx with your REAL NAME and real email address
I will prove the One Minute Methodology works with only THREE Dow Behaviors (time rule, price rule, trend rule)
I will prove 500 Mini Dow points in 5 days
I will prove Kindergarten Trades

The WebEx video will be recorded (audio and desktop) and uploaded to YouTube.com for the World to see.

I will then document that you made a false allegation to me and it will be in Google forever and ever...

Don't make allegations you can't back up.

The Mechanical Day Trader

I have a question to you. If your system is good (I am not doubting you or your system), why don`t you simply make a ton of money and enjoy your life instead of bringing it out to the public?

 

[Mathemagician]

Tim, I have to say that I respect the way that you carry yourself. That is all.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

How DayRaider Came To Fruition

I have a question to you. If your system is good (I am not doubting you or your system), why don`t you simply make a ton of money and enjoy your life instead of bringing it out to the public?

Hey Jumpinjack (great name!) ...welcome to the circular firing squad, where nothing gets put to bed, rather arguments that are nuked two weeks ago crawl out of the sewer grate yet again.

Many years ago the guys in the Chicago Pits said it couldn't be done...my thesis since 1998 has been that there are mechanical systems that move some index markets in a logical manner via time and price. Recognizing and categorizing institutional stops and measuring the time/price of mechanical systems' entry and exit became a favorite sport of mine, since I listened to the S&P live pit call for about a year (now THAT is a conversation killer!).

I knew I was on to something when I started swing trading Dell stock in the 90's (before I got into futures) a month before earnings would come out. I bought 2 lots of 500 shares at the end of the year, sold them before earnings and cleared about $20 a share...My broker at Morgan Stanley was stunned...How does some yoko who never traded before (of any size) come in, make two trades and net about $20,000?? It's then that I knew that the clowns in NY and Chicago had no clue how money was made. Dell also always split in the summer...that set up a arbitrage trade before and after earnings & split announcement. I figured this stuff out all by myself back in those days in Tradestation 4.0 and Maria Bartiromo and those big eyes of hers on CNBC.

I have had 3 earthly loves in life (besides my latina) by the time 2000i came out. Programming, Training/Coaching, & Trading, in that order. Trading is rather boring, it is a lonely existence and it's impossible to talk shop with others cuz they have their methods and conversations just go nowhere.

Next, I was limited by technology, until 2000i came out (and Win 98) there was no pc platform to really compete against the mainframes of London, NY and Chicago. 2000i was a godsend compared to clunky TS 4.0.

Lastly, when the One Minute Methodology had been tweaked to an extent that it could be taught in a logical format with streaming videos, inexpensive platforms for charting, etc, I started marketing part time. I find it a helluva lot more fun to program and teach then to full time trade..part time trading is not recommended unless I trade the same times every day during the week, which I'm in the process of doing right now.

Now let's bring it up to early 2009. I have had quite a few students take the plunge into this. Most never knew how to read a chart, so I teach everyone the basics. Some have done very well just completing the Fundamentals course. I have a guy who sent me a referral (the referral just upgraded to my TS software yesterday) who will never talk to anyone (or me) cuz he's a old fashioned real estate guy....and old guys don't want to publicly admit they learned something from some computer whipper snapper I think. He nailed a 100 point Mini Dow trade the first day after completing the Fundamentals course. And he nailed 2 more 100 point trades the next day. 300 Mini Dow points ...he understands the chart formations, institutional stops AND he has the balls to pull the trade.

A few I've taught crash and burn in Fundamentals...maybe 5 never went onto Module I and Module II ( think they were also broke and couldn't afford it). The rest completed the homework well, with a couple exceptions (Ken C from Kalifornia a glittering example).

There are two types of guys that have been past subscribers - Older guys that know everything or are unwilling after Module II to seek advice on how to become a better trader (one exception to this so far) and then younger guys or guys my age who, when they start daytrading or paper trading are resistant to daily one on one's to go over their strengths, weaknesses, good trades, trades they blew or missed.

If a guy DOES this he generally is unwilling to memorize Module I, which is a whole 5 pages of big type and pictures. I clearly explain before they sign up ya gotta memorize about 20 terms and you replicate a "trading template" once you determine the condition of the market (uptrend, downtrend, trading range) .

Charlie, Ken a few others would actually ARGUE with me about the freaking methodology and a live chart....amazing....One day they would be soaring at the top of the clouds when the nailed a EOD trade for 80 points (Charlie in Costa Rica many times claimed this) or a YT reversal...then for 4 days they'd be in the dumps. They'd ask about what to do in the market after the open...I'd ask, what is YT (this occurs at all market opens)? how many points? What Dow Behavior has occurred or is about to occur? (There are 3 Behaviors that control about 75% of all trades..that's in Module I).

It's about ten months since I rolled out the inexpensive DayRaider platform and the above results have occurred time and time again.. people want something handed to them on a silver platter...

The other thing I take exception to is you and others may refer to my "snake oil" as a system. It ain't no system, never has been called a system -- a system implies that it is automatic and 100% mechanical. Well, the Dow Behaviors tend to work 80%+ of the time in all times and all markets. However, if Gold is soaring, Bernake is printing a trillion dollars and devaluing the USD then the dang Dow is going smash thru 2 or 3 mechanical behaviors (that can be backtested weeks, months years) because the 5 day mechanical systems smell blood and they have another 350 points down to go today, tommorrow and into the 3rd day.

All this is clearly taught in page 1 of Module II and can be copiously backtested.

From early 09 to now I have been striving to upgrade the DayRaider platform that will be more robust and handle some short comings of DayRaider during the Globex.

Spent May and June trying to put the methodology on the Ensign Windows platform, a inexpensive but powerful charting package...however, the programming is incredibly stone age and the publisher violates tons of IT and Windows Conventions...What a waste of time. I was able to replicate the 'deviation' mechanicals perfectly however. Using Ensign was an attempt to keep the price very low and avoid Tradestation sticker shock.

In the past month I've converted everything that was developed Ensign (and stuff I couldn't program in Ensign) to Tradestation (about a week or less) and have now concluded programming, testing, and documenting for subscribers.

So, as I said previously, I'll be trading this summer, not counting a summer recess in mid August.

The prices on the website are high and if people don't want it, can't afford it then that's the desired effect. This noble experiment has taken many years of fine tuning but it's done and it works all the time, thanks Tradestation!!

VTROPP was a previous client pre-DayRaider...he and his buddy worked IT second shift. They both got into it but were unwilling for me to MENTOR them in paper trading and live trading. I think they lost about $2k or $3k each and they never met with me once they were taught the Methodology. Granted, the Tradestation programs were not NEARLY as accurate as they are now but still...they both lacked the humility to meet with me after a trading session and go over what they did or did not understand. They just disappeared off the radar.

So, yeah, I expect to get very few newbies from now on, since I've jacked the price..but really I can't be bothered, since Obama is gonna take half it away in taxes anyway. The ones that do sign up will be well funded and will be able to know some Tradestation track stars that are now using the Ensign erDayRaider Upgrade.

Dave/California is a great guy, but his big weakness was he was scared to trade, yet he'd call the market perfectly. It's a shame, cuz he missed a couple $1,000 trades by a couple ticks early on, and I think that really hurt his confidence. He also was unwilling to be open and go over past trading scenarios/successes/failures.

I think I need to take some sort of responsibility somewhere, I need to develop some type of screening material to weed that personality out of future newbies.

So, yes, now I'm trading and will be posting statements on the website starting the end of next week...my schedule is horrible the rest of this week and early next. Life is good, no complaints.

Stuart K.

 

[vrtrop22b]

Ok, I can't pull my hair out over this. Again, we will all agree that we just totally disagree. Stuart how about you give progress reports on your newbies and we can see how this ends up. Have them register on these boards and post their feelings. Perhaps when they graduate from the paper trading stages they can keep us doubting Thomases up to date on their path to success. Like you mentioned, you expect that the newbies that you now have will be a better fit for your methodology due to your screening. This should up your success rates even more. I have said my peace and everyone knows how I feel about Stuart's methodology.

 

[vrtrop22b]

timsk, did I miss something? Who is Lee? He/She was mentioned as a successful student of Stuart's. Can we get some background on Lee and get him or her posting on here?

 

[Jumpinjack]

EUR/USD Short

[QUOTE
So, yes, now I'm trading and will be posting statements on the website starting the end of next week...my schedule is horrible the rest of this week and early next. Life is good, no complaints.

Stuart K.[/QUOTE]


Well whatever, I`m short eur/usd and long usd/chf and this position (last week included) is bagging me some big cash. And if eur/usd goes down to 1.34 area I`ll have more cash than I deserve! Thats all there is to it.