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New to T2W? Welcome! This forum contains a list of the most frequently asked questions (FAQs) that new members want answers to. We don't allow new threads to be created so if you have an idea for a new FAQ please post it in the How the FAQs work thread.
The most important is to differentiate them; we recently published this article: Trading vs. betting, it takes a practical approach to it and comes to the conclusion that they're two worlds apart.
http://www.itagora.co.uk/learning/articles/
http://www.itagora.co.uk/learning/articles/
PieterSteidelmayer
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Surely one way to test this is to compare profitable traders as a percentage of the whole with profitable gamblers as a percentage of the whole. There might be problematic areas around lifespan of members of each set as most gamblers tend to play smaller stakes with less expectation of it affording them an alternate lifestyle with yachts and ferraris and rather more geared to just paying for the Saturday night beers and a curry.
Retail traders in their ardent quest for riches and wealth appear to last less than 6 months whereas gamblers in the broadest sense of the term can easily go a lifetime indulging and enjoying their hobby.
Retail traders in their ardent quest for riches and wealth appear to last less than 6 months whereas gamblers in the broadest sense of the term can easily go a lifetime indulging and enjoying their hobby.
Depends if you're in the UK and asking for tax reasons....
If you are then it's clearly delineated - Spread Bet accounts are considered gambling therefore are tax-free. This is easily checked by the HMRC as a bet is defined as having a finite life; hence Spreadbet accounts will never rollover your trades past midnight without first closing them (ie starting a separate bet).
In the UK that is the difference between a bet and a trade in the eyes of mr tax.
If you are then it's clearly delineated - Spread Bet accounts are considered gambling therefore are tax-free. This is easily checked by the HMRC as a bet is defined as having a finite life; hence Spreadbet accounts will never rollover your trades past midnight without first closing them (ie starting a separate bet).
In the UK that is the difference between a bet and a trade in the eyes of mr tax.
asianchamp
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No, gambling is the same as trading, you have yo put risk reward in your bucket bucko
victoriajensen
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Personally I don't consider them the same. Gambling counts on blind luck more than anything else while trading actually requires a lot of indepth knowledge. When you have that the end result isn't actually as unpredictable as one might think.
jotekfinance
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I would guess that all the people that do the statistics and make card counting methods, etc, would beg to differ with you.
Sorry folks, but trading is gambling it's just that some people cannot accept this fact. Why? The answer is quite simple trading is their selected venture and to some people being associated with the term "gambler" is just to much for their egos.
It's not just traders who have this delusion, take poker. A game of pure chance by any stretch of the imagination, yet the professional poker players will assert you are incorrect and quote a similar list of responses to those stated in this thread. They do claim due to having greater skills and/or having the ability to read other players or read the cards ensures these qualities negate the need for them to have to gamble.
While those in the thread who claim that research and knowledge are the distinguishing characteristic between the gambler and the investor should look at the racing professional. He does as much research and has as much in-depth knowledge of his chosen arena as any investor has of the money markets. Unsurprisingly these professionals also claim not to be gamblers due to the meticulous research and the knowledge he has ensures no gamble is ever required.
The fact is, gambling is when you have no control of the outcome of any event in which you have placed a wager, regardless of the preparation you did beforehand.
It's not just traders who have this delusion, take poker. A game of pure chance by any stretch of the imagination, yet the professional poker players will assert you are incorrect and quote a similar list of responses to those stated in this thread. They do claim due to having greater skills and/or having the ability to read other players or read the cards ensures these qualities negate the need for them to have to gamble.
While those in the thread who claim that research and knowledge are the distinguishing characteristic between the gambler and the investor should look at the racing professional. He does as much research and has as much in-depth knowledge of his chosen arena as any investor has of the money markets. Unsurprisingly these professionals also claim not to be gamblers due to the meticulous research and the knowledge he has ensures no gamble is ever required.
The fact is, gambling is when you have no control of the outcome of any event in which you have placed a wager, regardless of the preparation you did beforehand.
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timsk
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Hi J'ai,
On the basis of your definition, one could argue that the owners and shareholders of the casinos and betting firms are just as much gamblers as the punters who frequent them. After all, they have no more control over the number or colour that the roulette ball lands on or which horse wins the next race than those placing the bets. Yet the casinos and betting shops manage to make money consistently - week in and week out. This is in stark contrast to the average 'gambler' (their customers) - who do the exact opposite. I may be wrong, but I suspect that most members will argue that the owners and shareholders are no more gamblers than anyone else in any other business, on the grounds that they have found an 'edge' and are able to exploit it repeatedly. Some T2W members believe that it is possible to do the same as traders, so that whilst every trader incurs some losses, over time they manage to come out ahead and their equity curve rises steadily and consistently.
Tim.
barjon
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J'ai;2374524.............. said:
Firstly, so what? Call it gambling if you must, but there's stupid gambling - shutting your eyes and marching out to cross a busy road - and intelligent gambling - waiting until, in your judgement, there is a sufficient gap in the traffic for you to cross.
Secondly, good trading is about accepting that you cannot control whether price moves in your favour or not. Thus your "gambling" entry doesn't matter very much. What matters is what you do when it does go right and what you do when it doesn't.
Forexmospherian
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The whole of life is gambling - if you want to look at it in a one word way
I cannot control my future.
Even work is a gamble. You could have a safe position with one company and been with it for say 10 yrs - and then you move to a new company because better opportunties and 30% pay increase - and then 3 months later - company goes bust and you are without a job and maybe no pay off.
You go back to see if you can take your old post - and the guy who as replaced you is better and the company want him instead
Your wife and family see you with no job and you get depressed and then everything goes wrong and life goes downhill
So having a job is a gamble - never mind trading
The only things certain in life are taxes and death.
Dont listen to to the fact the trading is gambling - its legal and no different to reading the weather forecast or crossing a busy road after you have had a couple of pints
So a useless argument - forget it - dont worry about wind up merchants - just get back learning how to trade properly and take control of you life !!!!!
I reckon that should have gone in the Victor Meldrew thread really - lol
Regards
F
I cannot control my future.
Even work is a gamble. You could have a safe position with one company and been with it for say 10 yrs - and then you move to a new company because better opportunties and 30% pay increase - and then 3 months later - company goes bust and you are without a job and maybe no pay off.
You go back to see if you can take your old post - and the guy who as replaced you is better and the company want him instead
Your wife and family see you with no job and you get depressed and then everything goes wrong and life goes downhill
So having a job is a gamble - never mind trading
The only things certain in life are taxes and death.
Dont listen to to the fact the trading is gambling - its legal and no different to reading the weather forecast or crossing a busy road after you have had a couple of pints
So a useless argument - forget it - dont worry about wind up merchants - just get back learning how to trade properly and take control of you life !!!!!
I reckon that should have gone in the Victor Meldrew thread really - lol
Regards
F
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After reading your other material on T2W I would have thought that you had more intelligence than what you are displaying here. You haven't read what I wrote and you have also taken both sides of the debate without even knowing it.
What I said was that gambling is when you place a WAGER that you have no control over the outcome.
What I said was that gambling is when you place a WAGER that you have no control over the outcome.
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Hi Tim,
Sorry you have not read what I wrote. I said that placing a wager or trade in which you have zero control of the outcome regardless of any preparation done beforehand is a gamble.
I must point out Tim that Casinos and Betting shops do not gamble they simply take a cut of the winnings from each lucky gambler.
Sorry you have not read what I wrote. I said that placing a wager or trade in which you have zero control of the outcome regardless of any preparation done beforehand is a gamble.
I must point out Tim that Casinos and Betting shops do not gamble they simply take a cut of the winnings from each lucky gambler.
timsk
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Hi J'ai
Tim.
I read what you wrote perfectly, thank you! I'm saying that according to this definition casino owners/managers and betting shops are also gambling as they can't control the outcome of the spin of a roulette wheel or which horse wins a race any more than their punters can. If you're suggesting otherwise - then the Gambling Commission and other regulatory authorities will be very interested to talk to you!
Really?! You appear to have a very different understanding of how casinos and betting shops work than anyone else I've ever encountered. Be that as it may, if you acknowledge (as you appear to be doing) that there is a difference between the owners of such businesses and the punters who use them, then you need to re-read my last post and address the point I made.
Tim.
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Forexmospherian
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Hi F, I understand what your saying mate, yes I agree you can control your future not by gambling but by reducing the risk to yourself.
I think most people confuse risk and probability with gambling but they are different. As you said "you risk your life walking onto a busy road", however you always have the ability negate this risk or the probability of being hit by simply stepping back on the pavement. When gambling you do not have this option you can only wait for the outcome and hope the cars miss you.
Fred
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Taking risks is essential; gambling is foolhardy.” German general Erwin Rommel
I think most people confuse risk and probability with gambling but they are different. As you said "you risk your life walking onto a busy road", however you always have the ability negate this risk or the probability of being hit by simply stepping back on the pavement. When gambling you do not have this option you can only wait for the outcome and hope the cars miss you.
Fred
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Taking risks is essential; gambling is foolhardy.” German general Erwin Rommel
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