Is trading Forex as simple as riding a cycle ?

So for those reading this thread and contemplating the same issues of win/loss and the never ending search for expertise, I offer the following piece of info I found this morning to be quite revealing...

My brokerage offers a bunch of tools and educational videos as well as an on-going live stream of advice and insight from their group of FX strategists. They even have a signals service you can sign up for that will pretty much tell you what to do so you can "follow the experts". I'm not going to divulge who they are because that is both unimportant to this lesson and I don't need any flack from my brokerage. Besides, I like their tools and service, the rates are decent and I think they attempt to provide more than most. I also think most brokerages provide similar services.

Today, while the EU was finding its way into a rhythm, I visited the trade signals page of my brokerage. They (the brokerage) are new to me and I was curious. It had a list of previous, closed trades. So I took a sequential 20 trade section of the total displayed - a random sampling of the expert's picks. This included many different pairs, shorts and longs. I did a quick analysis of their success rate and here is what I found out of this block of 20 trades:

Profitable trades: 8 (40%)
Losing trades: 12 (60%)
Total pips earned: 564.6
Total pips lost: 663.9
Net pips: -99.3

To be fair, I went back and chose a different 20, then a combination of the 2 sets with some overlap. The results each time were in the same ballpark as above. Some of the losers were really big too, as if there was no stop protection. But perhaps the stops were just set really deep.

The moral of the story? These strategists are suppose to be experts, pros that the novice and more advanced traders should learn from. Their picks should be above the 75% success rate and their money management should be tighter than a frog's butt. Clearly, that is not the case. Why? Honestly, I could not say. But I'm also not that surprised. They are humans anyway, with emotions, and judgement flaws, etc. They make great instructional videos though. Perhaps it's a "Do as I say, not as I do" proposition.

But don't be dismayed, as if you'll never be successful at trading if even the pros can't get it right. Every year my wife and I pick the winning teams each week during the NFL football season and we keep score against each other. The winner at the end of the season gets bragging rights on being the house football expert. She kicked my butt this year. ESPN has a page during the season in which a dozen or so "experts" pick the winners each week as well. These guys are sports writers, sports newscasters, former coaches, players, etc... Experts. Every year since we've been playing both my wife and I have done better at picking winners than, almost all of these experts (there is one guy who really knows his stuff). There is a computer that makes picks as well based on every available statistic. We always do better than the computer. Experts?

So it always come back to the same thing that has been said in many books, this forum and etc.: Be responsible for your own learning. Listen, read and absorb. Seek truth. Test that truth. Test everything until confident in what you have learned is effective. Then execute without doubt while looking for changes that require adjustment and testing. Choose how you will acquire your wisdom. There are 3 ways:
- By reflection, which is the most noble
- By imitation, which is the easiest and least fruitful
- By experience, which is the most bitter

Good luck. But more importantly, good trading.
 
So for those reading this thread and contemplating the same issues of win/loss and the never ending search for expertise, I offer the following piece of info I found this morning to be quite revealing...

..........

The moral of the story? These strategists are suppose to be experts, pros that the novice and more advanced traders should learn from. Their picks should be above the 75% success rate and their money management should be tighter than a frog's butt. Clearly, that is not the case. Why? Honestly, I could not say. But I'm also not that surprised.
But don't be dismayed, as if you'll never be successful at trading if even the pros can't get it right.


So it always come back to the same thing that has been said in many books, this forum and etc.: Be responsible for your own learning. Listen, read and absorb. Seek truth. Test that truth.

Good luck. But more importantly, good trading.

Morning WD

Its only 9 00 am in the UK and basically I have achieved my daily target in last 2 hrs and so relaxing for a bit before doing some more trading a little later in the day.

I maybe can answer some of the questions you have raised regarding so called experts and pros and the actual industry etc

Your comment - Seek truth. Test that truth



I spent at least 3 yrs at the start of my journey doing exactly that. The trouble is this money market industry contains both the cleverest people in the world - and also the biggest liars and crooks. Lies and deceit is all part of the "game".

Why in earth would the industry want retail / non trade people to know the real truth and the best ways to actually make money from trading ?

Its like 2 countries or groups at war with each other - helping each other to fight and be better than they are - its just not in their interest.

So commercial pro's and experts - whether employed by Banks or Brokers etc - why should they want to give accurate forecast to Joe public etc ?

The initial effect on me on my learning stage was to think - well if these guys with all their knowledge and experience cannot be more than 50 -60% accurate - I am not going to do any better surely?

At that time I did not really understand that we are playing 2 different games - retail V commercial - and they are chalk and cheese. If I was dealing with a multi million capital account - everything would be different - and I would be delighted to make say 25 or 40% per annum ROI

But when you are retail playing with accounts under $100k - or in most cases under $10k - its not worth all the effort and risk and time to just make 25% per annum - why do It - stick your money in better safer investments. You need 20%+ per month - not per annum ( but not ongoing compounding )

Now I look upon myself as a fx retail short term Intraday "expert" simply because I am - I have done the time ( over 10k hrs on Live charts ) done the study ( 13 yrs) done the trades ( 17K + this year ) - and I can basically follow nearly every pip over a short amount of time and works on super tight stops and make RR trades of over 3 in under 10 mins.

Why - oh why - did no commercial expert or pro - tell me this is possible 10 yrs or even 5 yrs ago ???????

Because - Why would they !!

Next point - why guess and try and be a fortune teller ??

Trade in the "now" not speculate what might happen tomorrow or next week or next month - you need large stops - you waste time - its inefficient.!!!!

Its a shame - but instead of disliking dodgy FX vendors etc - and yes I have wasted some money with some early on - I just dislike the whole blooming industry - its stinks - its corrupt - but then - I make money from it - so I must be as bad as them ;-)

Rant over - :)

Good Trading to you and please love to hear more about your FX journey and hows it going etc


Regards


F
 
interesting posts on here. FWIW no professional investor (buyside) implicitly trusts broker forecasts either (sellside). Caveat emptor.
 
Nice posts, Wicked Daddy.
Me and 7 or 8 short-term trading experts trade on the FTSE livecall thread most days (although we trade anything, really. FX, oil, indicies etc)
Would welcome your views/input/analysis over there - I imagine you have wisdom to impart
 
I have just been reading on some other threads - all related to what happened with the SNB and that 3500+ pip drop - that many traders really think FX trading is unsafe and still like being in the "wild west".

I have witnessed quite a few "Black Swan " events over my 13 yr journey - but what happened on January 15th was really like a very rare event - on fact the last time the market moved that much in just a few hrs was like 3 decades ago.

OK - we can get on major election days - 500 - 1000 pip moves - but normally over 2-6 hrs not like in less than a hour and even then it would not be quite completely out the blue.

Its important that you cannot lose more than you capital account - whether thats $5k or $50 / $100k - and many reputable ECN brokers who are UK regulated cover that and also keep your capital in segregated accounts - which are then guaranteed by the FSA compensation scheme.

Also there are key times in the day to be aware or ready for any sudden BS ( Black Swan ) events.

I have been caught a few times over the years on spikes going say 25 pips against me - but normally if you play safe - dont risk more than 2% of your capital in the market at one time ( under 1% on larger retail accounts)and can intraday trade at the "coalface" - you can be in and out under 20 mins - and have no concern what might be around the corner.

There are safer ways to take a punt if you are more of a gambler - but if you are an experienced "sniper" who takes as many precautions as possible - then you are generally Ok

Take for example today - I have been selling the EU - but have also scalp bought on 4 occasions during the last 7 hrs. Its against the main trend of down - but 2 of my trades made me over RR's of 2 and i was finished on one of them in a"safe period" in under 7 mins.

You can never be 100% safe in any business. You can insure some risk and take additional precautions - ie keep banking you profits if you have enough capital etc. Set up a trust - put money in your childrens names etc - "ringfence" yourself - there really are so many ways - but many you would never read about etc.

Do your homework - - there is lots of money to be made in the FX markets its just such a shame 80 -90% of all retailers never get their hands on it

Regards

F
 
I have just been reading on some other threads - all related to what happened with the SNB and that 3500+ pip drop - that many traders really think FX trading is unsafe and still like being in the "wild west".

I have witnessed quite a few "Black Swan " events over my 13 yr journey - but what happened on January 15th was really like a very rare event - on fact the last time the market moved that much in just a few hrs was like 3 decades ago.

OK - we can get on major election days - 500 - 1000 pip moves - but normally over 2-6 hrs not like in less than a hour and even then it would not be quite completely out the blue.

Its important that you cannot lose more than you capital account - whether thats $5k or $50 / $100k - and many reputable ECN brokers who are UK regulated cover that and also keep your capital in segregated accounts - which are then guaranteed by the FSA compensation scheme.

Also there are key times in the day to be aware or ready for any sudden BS ( Black Swan ) events.

I have been caught a few times over the years on spikes going say 25 pips against me - but normally if you play safe - dont risk more than 2% of your capital in the market at one time ( under 1% on larger retail accounts)and can intraday trade at the "coalface" - you can be in and out under 20 mins - and have no concern what might be around the corner.

There are safer ways to take a punt if you are more of a gambler - but if you are an experienced "sniper" who takes as many precautions as possible - then you are generally Ok

Take for example today - I have been selling the EU - but have also scalp bought on 4 occasions during the last 7 hrs. Its against the main trend of down - but 2 of my trades made me over RR's of 2 and i was finished on one of them in a"safe period" in under 7 mins.

You can never be 100% safe in any business. You can insure some risk and take additional precautions - ie keep banking you profits if you have enough capital etc. Set up a trust - put money in your childrens names etc - "ringfence" yourself - there really are so many ways - but many you would never read about etc.

Do your homework - - there is lots of money to be made in the FX markets its just such a shame 80 -90% of all retailers never get their hands on it

Regards

F

As always you read but nothing registers in that head of yours...

Even using your 2% or in your case a max of 7 pip stoploss risking 0.5% .So when a 3500 pip spike happens within the 20 minutes you are trading in and gaps down so your stop loss is no use ,you would lose your whole account and then some

7 pips = 0.5 %
1400 pips = 100%
2800 pips = -100% ..You now owe your broker all your demo money
 
As always you read but nothing registers in that head of yours...

Even using your 2% or in your case a max of 7 pip stoploss risking 0.5% .So when a 3500 pip spike happens within the 20 minutes you are trading in and gaps down so your stop loss is no use ,you would lose your whole account and then some

7 pips = 0.5 %
1400 pips = 100%
2800 pips = -100% ..You now owe your broker all your demo money

If you really had a brain and also could read - you would be not so dangerous.

I cannot be ar*ed to explain and tell you how you are missing some thing and how that 3500 pip move in under a few hrs as NEVER happened in the previous 3 decades.

If you know anything about probability and odds and not trading exactly at the 2 main times - Black swan events might happen during the main trading day - then you would understand

Unfortunately - if you are not an experience pro or even better retail FX expert - than you will just not have a clue what I am on about

Please other members - i am never rude or obnoxious to 99% of members - just the Dumb and Dumber crowd

Try and have a good weekend and get your eyes tested at Specsave - so you can read properly my threads - instead of taking so many things out of context - a bit like a pro disser or hater really- you and your mate Scholfield are really my fodder - but you are both great entertainment ;-)

Good trading - by god you two need it

F
 
If you really had a brain and also could read - you would be not so dangerous.

I cannot be ar*ed to explain and tell you how you are missing some thing and how that 3500 pip move in under a few hrs as NEVER happened in the previous 3 decades.

If you know anything about probability and odds and not trading exactly at the 2 main times - Black swan events might happen during the main trading day - then you would understand

Unfortunately - if you are not an experience pro or even better retail FX expert - than you will just not have a clue what I am on about

Please other members - i am never rude or obnoxious to 99% of members - just the Dumb and Dumber crowd

Try and have a good weekend and get your eyes tested at Specsave - so you can read properly my threads - instead of taking so many things out of context - a bit like a pro disser or hater really- you and your mate Scholfield are really my fodder - but you are both great entertainment ;-)

Good trading - by god you two need it

F

No ,you said play it safe with 2% or 1% risk and be in and out of a trade within 20 mins and you will be ok ...That is wrong like i said but you think if you just deflect your ignorance and write so much the same things over and over and write so much in each post that people cant see through you
 
No ,you said play it safe with 2% or 1% risk and be in and out of a trade within 20 mins and you will be ok ...That is wrong like i said but you think if you just deflect your ignorance and write so much the same things over and over and write so much in each post that people cant see through you

you really should look at the thread where he's getting all confused trying to discuss trading with shakone and random! It's hilarious. It should be a 'sticky'
Anyone whose read that thread knows exactly how much of an 'expert' he actually is!! :cheesy:
He's so dim and every single thing they said flew over his head!! :LOL:
 
PS - F, Did you bring my name into this because you were angry at my making a little joke on yur thread about talking to yourself for 50 ood posts!!??
lol - I thought you had thicker skin than that! I'm sorry I upset you so much.
If it upsets you, i think you need to think about WHY there is so little interest in your threads.
For example, If people thought you were a genuine expert, there'd be so so much interest and everyone would be firing questions at you non-stop and wanting to learn.
Makes you think....the devil is in the details ;)
 
you really should look at the thread where he's getting all confused trying to discuss trading with shakone and random! It's hilarious. It should be a 'sticky'
Anyone whose read that thread knows exactly how much of an 'expert' he actually is!! :cheesy:
He's so dim and every single thing they said flew over his head!! :LOL:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex/181982-why-top-retail-traders-v-commercial-traders-6.html

This one ,I prob read it at the time but like you said it should be a sticky,might go through a few pages of it now :LOL:
 
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex/181982-why-top-retail-traders-v-commercial-traders-6.html

This one ,I prob read it at the time but like you said it should be a sticky,might go through a few pages of it now :LOL:

Did you see this video ...Im sure if somebody found the original and did it as if he was interviewing Mofo it be great.....anybody up for it
Wont let me upload it but here is link to it
http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1593739&d=1421838685
 
I think i read it before-random and liquid seem top drawer traders.f will agree with that-the above vid is cool- spoof i assume

Hi itspossible

Would have to disagree with the comment "top drawer traders".

I understand they were both commercially trained Institutional traders - total different ballgame to being a retail trader and using different tools and analysis to get their end result.

It was a shame they both left - as they were clever guys - no too ways about that but they were not impressed with me when I led them a wild goose chase on Sharpe Ratios in respect to my own FX trading account. They did not take too kindly to me because I don't compound and they were trying to compare apples with oranges - in fact they did there hardest to discredit me.- but understandably - I made sure I got under their skin first.

Random was the guy who made that quote - "it is virually impossible for a retail FX trader to make consistent monies in the market" - against the might of the LP's and the big players. - Shows how much he knew ;-))

Ok maybe 80 - 90 % of all FX traders are not consistent over years and years etc - but he looked upon it being more like 97 / 99% that failed.

They might have been very good at the job - very knowledge - but they played a different ballgame to me and looked upon their being No millionaires in the UK north of Watford lol - yes you know the type :)

Pity they did not stay here- maybe my now I could have found out really how good they were ;-)


Regards


F
 
you really should look at the thread where he's getting all confused trying to discuss trading with shakone and random! It's hilarious. It should be a 'sticky'
Anyone whose read that thread knows exactly how much of an 'expert' he actually is!! :cheesy:
He's so dim and every single thing they said flew over his head!! :LOL:


No Scholfield - lets get it right - you are the dim one

I have no expertise at all in commercial and institutional trading - and never ever said I have - in fact I have mentioned on many occasions I have never worked in Banking or any type of Finance industry.

Remember and I need to rub it in - I am a retail FX intraday EXPERT TRADER - ie not commercial - not an analyst or theory expert - purely on trading accounts under $100k and getting high returns on a consistent basis - ie like EVERY DAY

Once that as sunk in - then it will be so much easier for you top follow me - as I know you so enjoy - actually I even hope I have improved your own trading - surely you have picked up some tips and are no longer a "static target RR trader" in a dynamic move market - like you was in thread you used to do ??

If you actually followed that thread with S and R ( Shakone and Random ) correctly - I did my best to wind them two up - I don't particularly like commercial traders - I told them a sharpe ratio was hardly a tool I used - as I am not an investor type trader and dont even compound -and then when pushed gave them a figure that they then pondered over - before I admitted it was false - as I have never bothered working an outdated Sharpe ration out on my account.

Also its showed how much Random knew if he honestly believed that it was virtually impossible for any retail FX trader to make consistent returns - ie 97/98% fail etc.Obviously he had a massive account along with Algo's etc etc - different ballgame - a clever commercial muppet with a bad tongue and attitude problem.

Now please tell me - whats your expertise ?? is it Indices or FX or other ?

What ever it is - can you help your mate dumber to understand probabilities and risk along with thinking out the box on money management etc - because he just does not follow what I am saying - and when he reads between the lines - he gets it all wrong ?

Keep the entertainment going boys - its good fun :LOL:

Regards

F
 
Nice posts, Wicked Daddy.
Me and 7 or 8 short-term trading experts trade on the FTSE livecall thread most days (although we trade anything, really. FX, oil, indicies etc)
Would welcome your views/input/analysis over there - I imagine you have wisdom to impart

Thanks for the invite. I checked it out and it seems I'd need to read back a few pages to figure out what is going on. I don't trade FTSE but I've dabbled with the ES. It was difficult to get a handle on it. I will probably just watch what you guys are doing before saying anything.

Besides, I save any posting until I'm done with business for the day. You guys are all asleep by then.
 
No Scholfield - lets get it right - you are the dim one

I have no expertise at all in commercial and institutional trading - and never ever said I have - in fact I have mentioned on many occasions I have never worked in Banking or any type of Finance industry.

Remember and I need to rub it in - I am a retail FX intraday EXPERT TRADER - ie not commercial - not an analyst or theory expert - purely on trading accounts under $100k and getting high returns on a consistent basis - ie like EVERY DAY

Once that as sunk in - then it will be so much easier for you top follow me - as I know you so enjoy - actually I even hope I have improved your own trading - surely you have picked up some tips and are no longer a "static target RR trader" in a dynamic move market - like you was in thread you used to do ??

If you actually followed that thread with S and R ( Shakone and Random ) correctly - I did my best to wind them two up - I don't particularly like commercial traders - I told them a sharpe ratio was hardly a tool I used - as I am not an investor type trader and dont even compound -and then when pushed gave them a figure that they then pondered over - before I admitted it was false - as I have never bothered working an outdated Sharpe ration out on my account.

Also its showed how much Random knew if he honestly believed that it was virtually impossible for any retail FX trader to make consistent returns - ie 97/98% fail etc.Obviously he had a massive account along with Algo's etc etc - different ballgame - a clever commercial muppet with a bad tongue and attitude problem.

Now please tell me - whats your expertise ?? is it Indices or FX or other ?

What ever it is - can you help your mate dumber to understand probabilities and risk along with thinking out the box on money management etc - because he just does not follow what I am saying - and when he reads between the lines - he gets it all wrong ?

Keep the entertainment going boys - its good fun :LOL:

Regards

F

Would have to 100% disagree i'm afraid.
 
PS - F, Did you bring my name into this because you were angry at my making a little joke on yur thread about talking to yourself for 50 ood posts!!??
lol - I thought you had thicker skin than that! I'm sorry I upset you so much.
If it upsets you, i think you need to think about WHY there is so little interest in your threads.
For example, If people thought you were a genuine expert, there'd be so so much interest and everyone would be firing questions at you non-stop and wanting to learn.
Makes you think....the devil is in the details ;)

Sorry

i got the impression you and dumber did not like me getting any attention or followers at all ??

Now lets get thing straight - how many other threads have had just over 600k page reads in a year ?? Most take 2 - 4 years to get to that high and then I have 2 other threads with ratings of 4 stars - from multi member voting.

The only reason I have no got 4 star or more on my main thread is due to you and some jealous old school members deliberately voting with terrible and 1 star

Shows I must have got a lot of 4 and 5 star ratings to balance the average.

Also as you know I have had many days over 70 followers - ok 50+ might be guests or non members etc etc - but I have had days also with over 15 members following,

Surely that really gets under your skin:LOL:

Also - the comments - are just as much for my own benefit as others - they are my notes to assist me on levels on pairs and plans. If I did not do them here - I would post them elsewhere or even keep them private - if not shared with some other forexmospherian group.

Its so important to stay focused trading - its so boring short term Intraday - it helps me stay in my own zone etc.

Now what happened to your thread and so many other intraday FX trading here - you got to admit they were hardly of an high standard ;)

Please - If I start another thread - can you try and disrupt that one as well - with a bit of luck others can then spot your talent ??

ROFLMAO
 
Sorry

i got the impression you and dumber did not like me getting any attention or followers at all ??

Now lets get thing straight - how many other threads have had just over 600k page reads in a year ?? Most take 2 - 4 years to get to that high and then I have 2 other threads with ratings of 4 stars - from multi member voting.

The only reason I have no got 4 star or more on my main thread is due to you and some jealous old school members deliberately voting with terrible and 1 star

Shows I must have got a lot of 4 and 5 star ratings to balance the average.

Also as you know I have had many days over 70 followers - ok 50+ might be guests or non members etc etc - but I have had days also with over 15 members following,

Surely that really gets under your skin:LOL:

Also - the comments - are just as much for my own benefit as others - they are my notes to assist me on levels on pairs and plans. If I did not do them here - I would post them elsewhere or even keep them private - if not shared with some other forexmospherian group.

Its so important to stay focused trading - its so boring short term Intraday - it helps me stay in my own zone etc.

Now what happened to your thread and so many other intraday FX trading here - you got to admit they were hardly of an high standard ;)

Please - If I start another thread - can you try and disrupt that one as well - with a bit of luck others can then spot your talent ??

ROFLMAO

Would have to 100% disagree i'm afraid. Just about every post in that thread is yours!! :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Too funny!!

Night night, babes x ;)
 
saying that it was virtually impossible for any retail FX trader to make consistent returns it is nonsense in my view and shows a lot........
 
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