Exiting a trade is as important as entering it

[wallstreetwarrior87]

Forums are places to talk a load of bxxocks .The more people trade your method , the more effective they become .If your followers of your method , act as an army of billions , the enemy will run faster , you will win more times with a scared opponent running in fear , in the battlefield.

There for, an excellent source of liquidity for those in the know (sharks), which is just what "they" want, for without the army, they cant go to war

Millions of cadets will be like lambs to the slaughter.

 

[malaguti]

I am outsourcing my entry method development in parallel to my own development. The moment I perfect my own method, my offer of making people rich will be closed. Even though the window of opportunity is still open, it won't stay open for long as my own development is approaching conclusion.

This is really a last chance for someone to get on board for the gravy train.

You mean, its only open for the next 100 or so callers and then its SHUT DOWN..come on BJ please :whistling

 

[BeginnerJoe]

And I need to know what you could do for me. Right now this is one sided. I have an entry with low drawdowns and an exit that is already doing very well for me, and you have the promises of fortunes..you're not Greg Secker are you?
So tell me BJ, whats your part of this deal. And please dont say its to provide capital. I have a business that can do that already.

Well, if you are already doing well, then I have nothing to offer.

My offer is aimed at those who have high probability entry methods but are unable to make the best use of them. I bring to these people the missing pieces of their puzzle. Typically, the people who place excessive importance on the exit would make good partners for this deal. I can help them lift the self-imposed block on their profits.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

You mean, its only open for the next 100 or so callers and then its SHUT DOWN..come on BJ please :whistling

It's open to the first caller with the right stuff. I am not convinced there will be a 100 with high probability entry methods. At most there would be 1 or 2.

 

[15 min tlb]

There for, an excellent source of liquidity for those in the know (sharks), which is just what "they" want, for without the army, they cant go to war

Millions of cadets will be like lambs to the slaughter.

A decent method will take account of this , and the potential behavior of the sharks , just follow a method of the sharks.

 

[Splitlink]

Good post fxhunter all newbies should read this instead of going gun ho into trading. I also believe that exiting is more important than entry. In my experience most people do the 80/20 rule with 80% devoted to entry and 20% to exit yet in my experience I have found that the points total you achieve rely 80% of the time on where you exit.

I have an extremely low tolerance to loss but prefer to exit manually because I give the same timebar time to spike back again. That, of course, means that I must allow x points beyond the stop. If it does not spike back before the bar close, I'm out. I'm explaining what I do, not giving advice, because I have a feeling that if I place an exit stop, somehow, it will get closed out. It happens time and time again to me, which is why I wait for the bar to finish. I put a limit beyond my stop in case the price does not want to come back before the next bar.

I've been trading all through my retirement and, still, have not got this exit plan of mine perfect, yet, so I stay with small time frames and small losses but, really, I would like to trade the hourly and higher bars. What do you guys think of making the bar complete?

 

[counter_violent]

I have an extremely low tolerance to loss but prefer to exit manually because I give the same timebar time to spike back again. That, of course, means that I must allow x points beyond the stop. If it does not spike back before the bar close, I'm out. I'm explaining what I do, not giving advice, because I have a feeling that if I place an exit stop, somehow, it will get closed out. It happens time and time again to me, which is why I wait for the bar to finish. I put a limit beyond my stop in case the price does not want to come back before the next bar.

I've been trading all through my retirement and, still, have not got this exit plan of mine perfect, yet, so I stay with small time frames and small losses but, really, I would like to trade the hourly and higher bars. What do you guys think of making the bar complete?

Prices move continuously regardless of time frames.

What if we used 66 min bars or 73.5 min bars or any other number you care to think of.

 

[Liquid validity]

Prices move continuously regardless of time frames.

What if we used 66 min bars or 73.5 min bars or any other number you care to think of.

Agreed, that's one reason why tick charts are better than any arbitrary time series value.

 

[Liquid validity]

I am outsourcing my entry method development in parallel to my own development. The moment I perfect my own method, my offer of making people rich will be closed. Even though the window of opportunity is still open, it won't stay open for long as my own development is approaching conclusion.

This is really a last chance for someone to get on board for the gravy train.

Cheers Joe, some yuletide lulz

 

[FXhunter]

Well, the whole point of a partnership deal is we benefit together rather than being competitors. If I am going to make you rich, then you won't have to trade yourself.

Given that a good entry method is so hard to find, I have no reason to give it away to people. So your fears are unfounded.




The difference between a demo account and a real account is that in the real account, you have a guy on the other side of you trade who doesn't like losing money. Given that he's a pro, he usually makes money 100% of the time, if not from you, then from someone else.

So the problem you had was not one of self control, but rather your coming under control of the other guy.

I still think it's self control. I can easily close the position when the price is at the target, because the volatility is very good. The volume is usually 1500+ per 3 minutes bar when I'm in. I just sometimes don't have the self control.

But as 90% of the traders are losing money, the probabilities are that on the other side of the trade will not be pro.

I have to admit that your offer is tempting me. Because this way I can concentrate on other things, maybe looking for other methods. Because I don't believe that my entry method is the only entry method.
But, even if you may be the most honest person in the world. How can I know that if I give you my entry method you will keep your promise. You may say that the method is not OK, and you can continue to use it, trade 100 contracts... ans so on.

 

[Billy Gates]

Joe,

From what I have read so far on this thread. You don't have a perfect entry method. How are you currently managing your poor entries if not with a good exit.

I agree that a good entry method is important and your risk can be determined by it. But you still need a good exit to make the most of any move.

The other aspect is that if you have the perfect exit then identifying a perfect entry is not too difficult.-

Most trading systems out there have the average 65/70% success ratio. How do you think that ratio would change if your entry was right only 65/70% of the time? Do you think you will increase that ratio? If not then why the chase for that perfect entry when you can still get the same results using any other system correctly.

 

[Splitlink]

Prices move continuously regardless of time frames.

What if we used 66 min bars or 73.5 min bars or any other number you care to think of.

Very true, but we have to use something. I feel that if I put a hard stop on the trade, the market will take it out. That does not, always, happen, it is true, but it happens enough for me to want to make sure that it is`not spiking, so I give it a few more points within the time it takes for that bar to complete. If it is not below the SL, by then, I cut the trade. I use closes and line charts a lot, anyway,

Nevertheless, as I said before, I am not, really, satisfied with how I exit and, probably. never shall be.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I have to admit that your offer is tempting me. Because this way I can concentrate on other things, maybe looking for other methods. Because I don't believe that my entry method is the only entry method.
But, even if you may be the most honest person in the world. How can I know that if I give you my entry method you will keep your promise. You may say that the method is not OK, and you can continue to use it, trade 100 contracts... ans so on.

Sometimes you just have to take a gamble in life to win. I can offer you no guarantees but my word. If you strategy doesn't meet my requirements, I will not use it, nor reveal it to anyone. Also if your method is just a minor variation of my method then again we don't have a deal. In that case you would have lost nothing because we both already know the method.

If I take your method and it makes money, I have no reason not to share with you my gain because there's always more where that is coming from. When someone can get things easily, he becomes generous. So it comes down to how confident you are of your entry method to put me in that generous position.

 

[15 min tlb]

No, you are his main source of income...now keep on paying those taxes.

His method must really be like this after 30 years..HE MAY BE HIDING THE HOLY GRAIL...the method he talks about.It is about time he passed it on to BJ.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...ounding-keys-magic-kingdom-3.html#post2040454

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Joe,

From what I have read so far on this thread. You don't have a perfect entry method. How are you currently managing your poor entries if not with a good exit.

I agree that a good entry method is important and your risk can be determined by it. But you still need a good exit to make the most of any move.

The other aspect is that if you have the perfect exit then identifying a perfect entry is not too difficult.-

Most trading systems out there have the average 65/70% success ratio. How do you think that ratio would change if your entry was right only 65/70% of the time? Do you think you will increase that ratio? If not then why the chase for that perfect entry when you can still get the same results using any other system correctly.

There is really no good exit for a poor entry. This is why a poor entry should be avoided.

Given that entry and exit are two sides of the same coin, what make you think you can attain a good exit without a good entry ? Since entry always appears before an exit, it would be more logical to seek a good entry than a good exit. A good entry provides a safety margin against a bad exit. On the other hand, the safety margin of a bad entry is non-existent.

 

[Splitlink]

High probability of what, BJ? It's one of those phrases happily bandied around that's pretty meaningless.

Now, you tell me!

 

[BeginnerJoe]

His method must really be like this after 30 years..HE MAY BE HIDING THE HOLY GRAIL...the method he talks about.It is about time he passed it on to BJ.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...ounding-keys-magic-kingdom-3.html#post2040454

He already shown me his method. My method is not incompatible with that. Even without the statistics, it would be safe to say his method is better than your box break out. The box break out is more of random trading producing random results. At least Barjon's method, with its self fulfilling prophecy characteristics has a fair chance to work once the crowd is whipped up to a frenzy and no one(s) is willing stand in their way.

 

[Billy Gates]

There is really no good exit for a poor entry. This is why a poor entry should be avoided.

i thought that was precisely the point of this thread. Poor entries cannot (always) be avoided so what do you do? You have to have an exit in that situation.

My point being that if you can identify the perfect entry then you have identified the bottom of each move, and may have found the holy grail. Since this may not be possible then doesn't t make sense to manage the exit.

I agree that the perfect entry is important, but from the perspective that it may never be possible to identify the perfect bottom (or a top for a short) each time so a good entry is never known, but in each instance the exit can be know before hand.

Wouldn't that constitute a safety margin of a bad entry?

 

[15 min tlb]

He already shown me his method. My method is not incompatible with that. Even without the statistics, it would be safe to say his method is better than your box break out. The box break out is more of random trading producing random results. At least Barjon's method, with its self fulfilling prophecy characteristics has a fair chance to work once the crowd is whipped up to a frenzy and no one(s) is willing stand in their way.

You have completely missed the point about the box breakouts , the scalping has very little to do with random boxes , I very rarely use boxes .If I use a box , it is used with support and resistance , filtering out randomness .I look for high probability scalping entries using s/r and trends.

The boxes and the title are a joke , for those idiots who sell books on range breakouts!I am above all that random stuff .

 

[15 min tlb]

B J

Take a look at the strategies , they have 60 % hit rate.The box is only for support and resistance trading .........but look at the strategy sheets ....nothing to do with boxes.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex/162600-box-breakout-pro-scalping.html#post2025236

Hope u understood Barjon's holy grail .