TOTW Is it possible to feel no emotion when you win or lose a trade?
peeterwoolf
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No, I don't think that's possible to have no emotions at all, but what you can do is to control it.
Sharky
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Which leads to the question... how? Which methods have you found effective?
Data Miner
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The years spent dampening my emotions has helped (but not entirely eliminated) high & low stresses of daily trading. However, for me, this does have repercussions in everyday life. I now cannot get enthusiastic or despondent about anything.
Okay, nothing fazes me now, but nothing excites me either. What used to be in a range of absolutely superb ... to ... devastatingly awful. Is now, "not bad" through to "had better"
Okay, nothing fazes me now, but nothing excites me either. What used to be in a range of absolutely superb ... to ... devastatingly awful. Is now, "not bad" through to "had better"
Data Miner
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The viagra tablets I bought off ebay haven't worked properly. I wonder if . . . ?
Pat Riley
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As above. I've experimented with various substances while trading and found I get just as emotional. I don't think anything exterior to your self matters too much. It's what you are and how you react that matters. And there's not much to be done about it. I've seen chaps try and sweat it out and beat it out of their systems - why? It's part of ya. Accept it. Be aware of it. Be ready for it.
P
postman
If people think they dont get emotional over trades I suggest they buy one of those heart rate monitors, or you can get an android app which uses your camera for free, or a smart watch.
I really dont think you can say you are unaffected by emotions, it is difficult as a human to tell if you are because you have no external frame of reference. You are 'normal' or so your rational brain tries to tell you, the policeman with his hand on his stun gun saying put down the knife might beg to differ.
Ask your partner at the end of the day whether she thinks you had a good or bad day at the office, then post again saying if your emotions affect you.
Anyone ever had 5 losing days in a row or maybe 10, tell me that didnt affect your judgement and ability to enter the next trade.
As to how to deal with your emotions, we've had some good answers, size matters but bigger is not better. Also if youve had an exceptional day be it good or bad, take a break. Treat yourself to a day off, smell the roses and spend some of the money you've made, that way Mr Market cant take it back off you.
I really dont think you can say you are unaffected by emotions, it is difficult as a human to tell if you are because you have no external frame of reference. You are 'normal' or so your rational brain tries to tell you, the policeman with his hand on his stun gun saying put down the knife might beg to differ.
Ask your partner at the end of the day whether she thinks you had a good or bad day at the office, then post again saying if your emotions affect you.
Anyone ever had 5 losing days in a row or maybe 10, tell me that didnt affect your judgement and ability to enter the next trade.
As to how to deal with your emotions, we've had some good answers, size matters but bigger is not better. Also if youve had an exceptional day be it good or bad, take a break. Treat yourself to a day off, smell the roses and spend some of the money you've made, that way Mr Market cant take it back off you.
brewski1984
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The only times I don't care whether I win or lose is when the trade is for small money because it has no effect on anything - but that is the exact level you should be trading. It's extremely difficult to trade with meaningless money because I just don't care if I lose so I take big risks and gamble it away.
Boilersuit
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Hmm. Well we all have emotions. Some of us keep them under control more than others.
I think what I do nowadays is prepare for the eventualities of trading.
If my trade profits a lot I think "so what, sometimes you get movement, I prepared for that". And if I lose, I think "so what, x % of the time I expect that".
In other words, I'd equate my emotions of yrs gone by with lack of preparation.
Nowadays, my trading emotions are very small compared to other things in life. Such as ... my football team does ****, I have an argument with a relative, or see some politician doing ****.
The key think is that you are largely objective AND are still happy and grounded in what you do. A silent, moderate contentedness not thrills and adrenalin.
darktone
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Reading through the thread it seems like the majority go with 'you have emotions, they are unavoidable, you have to learn to cope with them.' etc etc. This imo is a bad approach.
As ive said before,imo and experience, you cant feel anything unless you think it first. It follows then that you should be very careful of what and how you think, and in turn, believe. Because just like a person suffering from depression, if your thoughts / beliefs are distorted from reality (in a way that detrimental to you) youre in for one rough irrational ride.
Physical:
About the only physical way trading can negatively affect you (outside of you stressing yourself silly) imo is the loss of money, so you have to be realistic about what losing X amount of money means to you. Its called 'risk capital' for a reason, its at real risk! In part from the market, but mainly from you becoming emotionally destabilized, and being a wally. Only trade with money you can afford (mentally and physically) to lose.
Mental:
The ways in which we can mentally mess ourselves up is endless. The one thing they will all have in common, be they thoughts / beliefs / expectations, whatever, is that they will all be unrealistic next to reality. You have to find out which parts are relevant to you, which personally cause you distress and compare them with reality as best you can. From there things become easier as its really difficult to believe something that is obviously untrue.
How can you change the way you think / what you you believe etc? Buy a decent book on CBT / depression, grab a pen and paper and get busy. "Nah! That psychobabble aint for me!"... Well done genius, youve just unwittingly defeated yourself.
Imo and experience, when you get this stuff lined up, trading can be pretty stressless.
As suggested earlier, when youre under your own personal gun, measure your heartbeat and compare to 'at rest'. Do the same again when youve done some work on yourself mentally.
As ive said before,imo and experience, you cant feel anything unless you think it first. It follows then that you should be very careful of what and how you think, and in turn, believe. Because just like a person suffering from depression, if your thoughts / beliefs are distorted from reality (in a way that detrimental to you) youre in for one rough irrational ride.
Physical:
About the only physical way trading can negatively affect you (outside of you stressing yourself silly) imo is the loss of money, so you have to be realistic about what losing X amount of money means to you. Its called 'risk capital' for a reason, its at real risk! In part from the market, but mainly from you becoming emotionally destabilized, and being a wally. Only trade with money you can afford (mentally and physically) to lose.
Mental:
The ways in which we can mentally mess ourselves up is endless. The one thing they will all have in common, be they thoughts / beliefs / expectations, whatever, is that they will all be unrealistic next to reality. You have to find out which parts are relevant to you, which personally cause you distress and compare them with reality as best you can. From there things become easier as its really difficult to believe something that is obviously untrue.
How can you change the way you think / what you you believe etc? Buy a decent book on CBT / depression, grab a pen and paper and get busy. "Nah! That psychobabble aint for me!"... Well done genius, youve just unwittingly defeated yourself.
Imo and experience, when you get this stuff lined up, trading can be pretty stressless.
As suggested earlier, when youre under your own personal gun, measure your heartbeat and compare to 'at rest'. Do the same again when youve done some work on yourself mentally.
Sharky
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If like me, you were wondering what CBT stands for, it's: Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and there are some good recommendations for books on Quora here:
http://www.quora.com/Whats-the-best-introductory-book-on-cognitive-behavioural-therapy-for-a-layman
http://www.quora.com/Cognitive-Beha...-you-need-to-do-CBT-with-a-trained-practioner
Pat Riley
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The problem with self-administered cognitive therapy is much like everything else which is self-administered for which you are not trained or an expert in, it'll give you a short-term fix, possibly, but at the expense of focusing on your primary objectives - for the sake of argument given the stated interest topic of this site - trading. If your emotions are such an issue it's a problem then get professional help. The old NLP thing was all the rage a few years ago and every man and his dog were curing themselves and offering to cure everyone else of all sorts of things they didn't know they had. If you have emotions which are proving problematic when you're trading and not in any other area of your life - sort out the trading issues, don't waste time hunting for the 'you' issues which are 'impacting' your trading as there probably are none. If you have emotional problems with everything then you're Irish and no amount of sorting will help, you're doomed.
robster970
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darktone
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Wot a loada bollox! Apart from the Irish bit! :cheesy:
Pat Riley
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Now tell me mr. darktone, how long have you been harbouring these feelings of aggression and anger toward humanity in general and Irish folk in particular? Just allow your eyes to close and become comfortable with yourself as you inwardly melt and become soft and pliant. Enjoy the soft breeze on your face which is what you will feel shortly before my first of fury hammers into your Paddyphobic mush.
There ya bugger. Reframe that.
robster970
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I think I'm going to start a thread called 'Ask Uncle Pat' as I think he has a touch of the Clare Raynor's about him and he could help us all......
darktone
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Pat, you got me all wrong mate. Is only recently that ive been re evaluating some of my beliefs re the Irish (as in the last 10 minutes) and realised that im way out of touch with reality. Now if you dont mind, being 1/4 Irish myself, im off to accept the fact that im 25% F**ked! Wheres mi pen n paper!?
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