Yes they try everything, in my point of view the MiFID financial directives still overrides the T&Cs. IG should know better, not to set up conditions in the T&Cs, in order to free themselves from all responsibility towards the client.
IG Index huge GBPUSD slippage > > >
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stevespray
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My friend has still not received a reply from IG’s compliance department regarding the original breach of T&C’s. In my opinion this change of T&C is more or less an acknowledgement that their dealing staff have been ignoring the relevant sections of the Client Agreement when it comes to filling stops. If the original explanation offered by their dealers was correct then there would be no need for the firm to amend the T&C’s in this manner.
This raises more than a few interesting questions. How long have the firm been filling clients using an incorrect procedure which clearly only benefits the firm? How much has the firm collected from clients in this period? How are the firm going to financially compensate clients who have been affected? Potentially this could cost the firm considerable time and money. The official compliance response which they make to my friend is going to make very interesting reading.
Personally I’m struggling to see how the new T&C’s can be deemed fair. The FSA should be interested in this kind of thing. If you read them carefully then you will soon see that the new terms are completely unbalanced – they only ever favour the firm. Notice in particular how the new terms don’t allow your stop to be filled at a price better than the level which you set in your order?? This is completely unfair on the client. Basically the firm can pick from one of two scenarios when filling stops – what the firm chooses depends on the financial viability of each scenario. If the market triggers your stop loss and keeps on falling then they can fill your order at the level which the market is at when they get around to actually dealing with your order. On the other hand, if you stop gets triggered and the market bounces then best fill you can possibly get is the level which you stop is set at. Notice how the firm have written the T&C’s in such a manner as to make it impossible for the client to benefit from the market movement between the stop being triggered and the time the order if filled (say for example your stop got triggered but the market bounced 100 pips before they got around to dealing with your order – you’d be filled at your stop rather than the ‘prevailing market level’) Yet, if the market carries on moving against the client, the full financial impact of the move can be passed on to the client. This, in my opinion, is a clear breach of Unfair Terms and Conditions in Consumer Contract Regulations and somebody needs to raise this point before the new terms come into force.
If these new terms are allowed to come into force then clients are now clearing taking a considerably higher risk then previously. If the firm suffered any kind of outage which meant that they were unable to fill clients stop orders in real time then the clients would be fully liable. Previously the firm would have had to retrospectively calculate where clients would be filled – under the new rules they could simply fill clients based on the currently prevailing price. The clients no longer have any protection against this designer slippage.
Steve.
This raises more than a few interesting questions. How long have the firm been filling clients using an incorrect procedure which clearly only benefits the firm? How much has the firm collected from clients in this period? How are the firm going to financially compensate clients who have been affected? Potentially this could cost the firm considerable time and money. The official compliance response which they make to my friend is going to make very interesting reading.
Personally I’m struggling to see how the new T&C’s can be deemed fair. The FSA should be interested in this kind of thing. If you read them carefully then you will soon see that the new terms are completely unbalanced – they only ever favour the firm. Notice in particular how the new terms don’t allow your stop to be filled at a price better than the level which you set in your order?? This is completely unfair on the client. Basically the firm can pick from one of two scenarios when filling stops – what the firm chooses depends on the financial viability of each scenario. If the market triggers your stop loss and keeps on falling then they can fill your order at the level which the market is at when they get around to actually dealing with your order. On the other hand, if you stop gets triggered and the market bounces then best fill you can possibly get is the level which you stop is set at. Notice how the firm have written the T&C’s in such a manner as to make it impossible for the client to benefit from the market movement between the stop being triggered and the time the order if filled (say for example your stop got triggered but the market bounced 100 pips before they got around to dealing with your order – you’d be filled at your stop rather than the ‘prevailing market level’) Yet, if the market carries on moving against the client, the full financial impact of the move can be passed on to the client. This, in my opinion, is a clear breach of Unfair Terms and Conditions in Consumer Contract Regulations and somebody needs to raise this point before the new terms come into force.
If these new terms are allowed to come into force then clients are now clearing taking a considerably higher risk then previously. If the firm suffered any kind of outage which meant that they were unable to fill clients stop orders in real time then the clients would be fully liable. Previously the firm would have had to retrospectively calculate where clients would be filled – under the new rules they could simply fill clients based on the currently prevailing price. The clients no longer have any protection against this designer slippage.
Steve.
Trader333
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The only way around this is to hedge your position with a second broker or don't use IG in fast moving markets. This is bad news in my view as IG have always been the best of the SB companies in my view but this puts a new light on it. I may take a look at Futures Betting.
Paul
Paul
counter_violent
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Did anyone read post 76 ?
Surely the job of a trader is to manage positions....placing a stop in the market in itself is only One form of managing...actually it is not managing at all really...it's more akin to absolving oneself of responsibility on managing the trade.
In my experience it is far better to explore other methods of managing trades than simply relying on stops all the time.
Surely the job of a trader is to manage positions....placing a stop in the market in itself is only One form of managing...actually it is not managing at all really...it's more akin to absolving oneself of responsibility on managing the trade.
In my experience it is far better to explore other methods of managing trades than simply relying on stops all the time.
Jack Hughes
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Be interesting to see what happens if everyone rejects the new T&Cs. Maybe a mass protest could be organised through T2W? Power to the punter!
stevespray
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I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is important to 'manage your trade' it can be argued that having a stop loss order can constitute part of the 'management' process even if that stop is just a safety net. I often trade with a mental stop loss but I still place a 'hard stop' to every open position just in case something happeneds while I'm making a cup of tea or something.
tar
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It means prepare yourself for a possible slippage in your stop orders no new here , but if they delay stop orders and execute stops wherever they want they will lose their repetion as a best execution SB firm and simply they will lose their clients , IG wants to give some room for itself in the new T&C . you can use altrenative provider in case , or simply use DMA , and i mean real broker not FuturesBetting , they have huge commissions compared to real brokers ...
In my case, be assured, something will happen if I have no stop in place.I've been with IG. They may be as good but I've found them no better than other SBs that I have used.
counter_violent
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Of course, using a mental stop loss during a important news release will not work. There are only two ways to fully protect your position, hedge your position without any stop loss or close the position before the actual news is released. As mentioned before on this thread, SB's that do not honor stop loss will lose clients and money, this language they understand very well.So we agree then
counter_violent
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The term Stop Loss is very ambiguous to say the least....in a loss situation, the stop loss simply means the crystallization of a physical loss.....in a profit situation it means the crystallization of a locked in profit...either way we are out of the trade and certainly on 95% of occasions...not at the best price.
Yes, but you can get hurt real badly, the few times they decide to play games on you and you are not covered. It should be included in the risk management profile, holding a position during news releases is a risky business. In a way you are in the hands of the market maker. It is best to stay out of SB companies, you know are not playing a fair game during these occasions.
TheBramble
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For goodness sake. If you choose to deal with I G (deliberate edit to deprive them of yet another auto-link) and their like, what do you expect? This site has so much background and experiential feedback on these bods and their contemporaries and some of you STILL believe your incredible profits (you expect to make) being tax free will compensate for the truly biased service that will be inevitably based on the (highly profitable for them) business model the SBs operate.
Get real. The SBs offer a pocket money entry level ‘in’ for those that believe they can make it in trading. And they enhance the pitch with the tax free angle which is largely irrelevant to 95% of those that trade with them. They prey on that. That you have to deal with ALL the intricacies of the markets that real traders do, AND deal with the shenanigans of the SBs means you start with the dice loaded against you. You are doomed to fail. That’s the whole point.
The SBs are effectively unregulated for the most part (they are in name only) and exist to part you from your funds as quickly as possible.
If you want to trade – trade smart – not with these cowboys.
Get real. The SBs offer a pocket money entry level ‘in’ for those that believe they can make it in trading. And they enhance the pitch with the tax free angle which is largely irrelevant to 95% of those that trade with them. They prey on that. That you have to deal with ALL the intricacies of the markets that real traders do, AND deal with the shenanigans of the SBs means you start with the dice loaded against you. You are doomed to fail. That’s the whole point.
The SBs are effectively unregulated for the most part (they are in name only) and exist to part you from your funds as quickly as possible.
If you want to trade – trade smart – not with these cowboys.
So "real" traders like you only trade DMA?
counter_violent
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So "real" traders like you only trade DMA?
I'm sure TheBramble does not mean this at all.
I'm equally sure he would agree that SB account in the right hands can be as good as any other account.
counter_violent
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I'm sure he did, cv. Re-read his last sentence.
Well ...lets wait and see what he has to say
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There are sum punters wot makes money from S B you know !
Jack Hughes
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I'd agree with TB. Why trade against the market and a bookie? Even hedging with another SB outfit instead of using stops can come unstuck.
Once you've learned the ropes, the great pleasure of spread betting is to open an account, trade for a while (preferably using their 'free' money as margin), then withdraw the profit once the funny business starts.
Once you've learned the ropes, the great pleasure of spread betting is to open an account, trade for a while (preferably using their 'free' money as margin), then withdraw the profit once the funny business starts.
I have been trading the real market for 10+ years, and SB for 4 years. I guess I am a very slow learner.
oildaytrader
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