How To Think Correctly

[CYOF]

Inspiration may be fleeting, whereas art is permanent.

We are INSPIRED because we know no better. Like ION, who probably went around with his head buried up HOMERS's "you know what", the same can be said for all aspects of life - remember we must put what we are talking about into real life experiences, else, we are wasting our time. We are not here to try and solve the mysteries of the Universe, although I must say that I find it very enjoyable along the journey, and quite frankly, I don't give a damn where the UNIVERSE is, or where any bloody thing is for that matter.

But, I do realise that our time on this Earth is short, and I want to try and enjoy it as much as possible - not be locked into the "rat race" that we have been forced into by generations of tradition and pur stupidity, the majority reason of which, has been , and will always be, so that a very select few can maintain the power and wealth.

A new era has well and truly started at the end of the 19th Century, but how many know the real reason for this. It is now available to all due to a recent posting - lets see who gets the answer first.

Question:

What is the main contributing factor to the new understanding of Natural Law, which in turn has enabled man to break free from the traditional ways of thinking, which we all know by now, is not the best, and more importantly, not the correct, way of thinking?

Slainte,

 

[Windowsill]

I've got a rare few minutes so I've just rotated it 90 degrees counter-clockwise with Friday at the top and Wednesday at the bottom and am looking at it now. Here are my thoughts as I'm looking at it:

- The open/close ticks on the bars make it look like a family tree
- There's an obvious right-hand edge that's hit once each day
- There are roughly as many green as red bars
- The start of each day sees a lot of movement
- Green bars occur only in ones or twos
- Most of the movement is bracketed by the Wednesday 1430 and Friday 0930 bars

You said "the detail I am talking about is well known by all, but many fail to see the significance of it for trading" so now I'm looking for a pattern or shape that isn't something to do with trading.

- It's wide at the bottom and narrows as it goes up, then widens again
- It looks like a river meandering
- It looks like something you would rock-climb

My few minutes are up and I'm called for. Maybe I got something there or maybe not.

I'm curious.

When are you going to go the whole hog & turn it a further 90 degrees

 

[CYOF]

You have to ask yourself why there is a massive mountain of rubbish published on trading? Not why it's massive, but why it's rubbish ? There is a massive amount of publishings on many other topics, such as physics, gardening, medicine, sailing and so on.....but I wouldn't say it's rubbish. Why not ? Why is there so much rubbish published about trading stock markets, more so than any other subject ?

If you know the answer, I well start to think you are "enlightened"

But, I do know the answer PT, and you also know it as well!

We can all be "enlightened" as much as we allow ourselves to be - no more, no less.

It just so happens, that I tend to agree with Petyr Demianovich Ouspensky, but I have no interest in solving the mysteries of the Universe, as just posted.

I may have forget to mention, that in real life, we all know many ION's, and many HOMERS, but do we know the most important person of all - we are now getting very close to that "statement" that I said would shock everyone, but thanks to LM (don_h), I think most will now be expecting the statement anyway, or have already figured it out as to what it was I was hinting at.

I will also give another clue for the Charts - which btw, some will not see anything in, even after been told, for like my dream of flying experiment, some people do actually think along the same wavelength, and speaking of wavelength, the answer to my first question has still not been given, and I am going to tak a chance now, and say that EMF is not it, and this is due to information that we have already covered since we started the discussion.

The clue is: read my last post very carefully.

Slainte,

 

[Profitaker]

LOL @ Windowsill

CYOF I doubt you know the answer !

 

[CYOF]

I'm curious.

When are you going to go the whole hog & turn it a further 90 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcab
I've got a rare few minutes so I've just rotated it 90 degrees counter-clockwise with Friday at the top and Wednesday at the bottom and am looking at it now. Here are my thoughts as I'm looking at it:

- The open/close ticks on the bars make it look like a family tree
You are sort of close!

- There's an obvious right-hand edge that's hit once each day
You are getting closer

- There are roughly as many green as red bars
Not of any consequence - normal market activity


- The start of each day sees a lot of movement
You are very, very close!


- Green bars occur only in ones or twos
A green bar can occur at any time - the same as a red bar can


- Most of the movement is bracketed by the Wednesday 1430 and Friday 0930 bars
This could also be valid -but for the purpose of the strategy we will highlight, it is not that important, but, none the less, a very good point.

You said "the detail I am talking about is well known by all, but many fail to see the significance of it for trading" so now I'm looking for a pattern or shape that isn't something to do with trading.
No, it is what you MUST see first that is significant


- It's wide at the bottom and narrows as it goes up, then widens again
Normal market activity

- It looks like a river meandering
Yes - and it could also be the wind blowing :idea:

- It looks like something you would rock-climb
Yes, and rock climbing can be very hard at times, but there are experienced climbers that know how to grasp those little ledges with the bare tips of their fingers, which might break their nails at any time!

My few minutes are up and I'm called for. Maybe I got something there or maybe not.
Yes -a lot.

 

[Profitaker]

Fasinating garbage CYOF

 

[zupcon]

Yes, and more importantly, how is he "ABLE" to anticipate more accurately, might it have any little thing to do with the way he thinks?

Maybe, just maybe, unknown to him/herself (lets not forget the other species here) , he has shed to burden of the so called "SYSTEM" that has been imposed on him/her without any consent. Maybe, his/her "INTEREST" in what they are doing, has allowed to shed off this curse, and only when they are truly "OBSESSED" with their sport do they find themselves in the so called "ZONE" that so many athletes speak about entering.

It is all starting to make sense, NO?

I’ll offer an opposing argument. The main reason that these people can anticipate is simply because their pattern recognition skills are highly developed, they've spent thousands of hours watching a shuttle fly through the air, under varying conditions

Why do you think sports people spend hundreds of thousands of hours practicing the same basic skills, why do musicians spend countless hours practising simple scales?

I won’t deny that there are ways to “think correctly” with respect to sports, and music and indeed trading, but thinking correctly isn’t going to improve anticipation, or intuition, these can be improved, but only through work

Out of interest, has your expectancy, or any other performance metric that you might wish to use (from either live or demo trades) improved significantly since learning to think correctly

regards
zup

 

[andycan]

You have to ask yourself why there is a massive mountain of rubbish published on trading? Not why it's massive, but why it's rubbish ? There is a massive amount of publishings on many other topics, such as physics, gardening, medicine, sailing and so on.....but I wouldn't say it's rubbish. Why not ? Why is there so much rubbish published about trading stock markets, more so than any other subject ?

If you know the answer, I well start to think you are "enlightened"

Simple answer
there is huge amount of money to be made on subjects referring to money!!

what about 'Became a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' i wonder how many would fall for that
or 'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps'
we all know thats highly unlikely
but how does this sound? 'you too can make money in the stockmarket' to the average joe its certainly interesting
i believe its becasue with the two example prior we have a point of reference, having to do physics,math or biology at school
but most are not exposed to trading and its quirks and what it involves and those that do economics tend to at least have an understanding of the mechanics of the stockmarket which tricks them into believing that because you understand a balance sheet you can make money trading

 

[CYOF]

I’ll offer an opposing argument. The main reason that these people can anticipate is simply because their pattern recognition skills are highly developed, they've spent thousands of hours watching a shuttle fly through the air, under varying conditions

They anticipate because they have ingrained the many different possibilities it in their sub-conscious.

Why do you think sports people spend hundreds of thousands of hours practising the same basic skills, why do musicians spend countless hours practising simple scales?

Some need to practice a lot more than others - read Psycho Cybernetics

I won’t deny that there are ways to “think correctly” with respect to sports, and music and indeed trading, but thinking correctly isn’t going to improve anticipation, or intuition, these can be improved, but only through work

Wrong - thinking correctly, as there is only the one way to do it, due to the immutable laws, will improve anything that you want to improve.

Out of interest, has your expectancy, or any other performance metric that you might wish to use (from either live or demo trades) improved significantly since learning to think correctly

Yes, but unknown to myself at the time, as is the same with a lot of people, my improvements wre due to my sustained thought and mental imaging -the basis of thinking correctly.

regards
zup

Think about what I have said, in relation to what we have discussed to date!

Slainte

 

[CYOF]

Simple answer
there is huge amount of money to be made on subjects referring to money!!

what about 'Became a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' i wonder how many would fall for that
or 'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps'
we all know thats highly unlikely
but how does this sound? 'you too can make money in the stockmarket' to the average joe its certainly interesting
i believe its becasue with the two example prior we have a point of reference, having to do physics,math or biology at school
but most are not exposed to trading and its quirks and what it involves and those that do economics tend to at least have an understanding of the mechanics of the stockmarket which tricks them into believing that because you understand a balance sheet you can make money trading

You took the words out of my mouth andy, but I will elaborate later on - I must go now.

Slainte,

 

[dcraig1]

What's the matter, mate, don't they have any of this stuff Down Under? You're missing out on the real nitty-gritty, you know

Split

Yeah well, we don't get a lot time to philosophize down here in this wide brown land. There's lots of things to worry about like crocodiles:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1823325.htm

and

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1823380.htm

Makes me recall the fairly recent story of a European tourist who came across a crocodile on the opposite bank of a creek in far north Queensland. Unable to get a decent photo, he grabbed a stick, waded into the water and starting beating the water with the stick. He was very lucky to escape with some severe lacerations to his legs.

As clear an example of "incorrect thinking" as I have come across for a while.

 

[blackcab]

For the charts, the rotation of 90Deg counterclockwise can be used for different trading techniques, but the overall visual "sore thumb" is the same.

... it should become clear from these 2 images that there is a common attribute that is inherent in all charts - no matter what way you look at them ...

I will give another clue that should clench it - A ZODIAC SIGN.

There are some really obvious attributes that are inherent in all charts (they go up and down, they range, they trend, they revert, they gap, etc.), but if it's none of those then, predictably, let's go through the zodiac.

Aquarius - water. I said they look like a meandering river earlier, is it that?

Aries - ram. Can't think of one here. They go 'baah'.

Cancer - crab. They scuttle from side to side. Do you think the deep level of insight I'm exhibiting here is going to get me the answer? ;-)

Capricorn - forgotten what this one is.

Gemini - twins. Charts have mirror reflections in them? They have two sides to them, upside and downside? They're schizophrenic and can't decide what they want to do?

Leo - lion. They lie around not doing much, then have a burst of hunting activity?

Taurus - bull. Apart from the obvious bull and bear, can't think of one here.

Libra - the scales. They balance each other (inter-market correlations, divergences)?

Pisces - fish. They swim about eating each other. Am I wasting everyone's time here?

Sagittarius - forgotten what this one is.

Scorpio - scorpion. They sting.

Virgo - what is Virgo meant to be, a virgin? If so I can't think of anything except smut.

So, nothing has leapt out from the zodiac at me. I'll have a go at looking at these two charts and see again if I can spot the sore thumb.

A raindrop travelling down a window. Is that it? That would imply randomness in some frames of reference, and the need for a detailed study of friction, gravity, surface tension, impurities in some others.

 

[new_trader]

I’ll offer an opposing argument. The main reason that these people can anticipate is simply because their pattern recognition skills are highly developed, they've spent thousands of hours watching a shuttle fly through the air, under varying conditions

Why do you think sports people spend hundreds of thousands of hours practicing the same basic skills, why do musicians spend countless hours practising simple scales?

I won’t deny that there are ways to “think correctly” with respect to sports, and music and indeed trading, but thinking correctly isn’t going to improve anticipation, or intuition, these can be improved, but only through work

Out of interest, has your expectancy, or any other performance metric that you might wish to use (from either live or demo trades) improved significantly since learning to think correctly

regards
zup

I don't entirely agree. There is a big difference between learning/doing something parrot-fashion and actually understanding what and why you are doing it. Musicians practice scales but it has little(nothing) to do with learning the notes. What they are practising and polishing is their technique. Musicians don't spend countless hours practising scales (I don't know where you heard this). Once a musician knows all 24 scales then they only need to spend about 10-15 minutes per day going through them with the correct technique. This is because they have mastered their art.

 

[blackcab]

- The open/close ticks on the bars make it look like a family tree
You are sort of close!

- There's an obvious right-hand edge that's hit once each day
You are getting closer

- The start of each day sees a lot of movement
You are very, very close!

You said "the detail I am talking about is well known by all, but many fail to see the significance of it for trading" so now I'm looking for a pattern or shape that isn't something to do with trading.
No, it is what you MUST see first that is significant

- It looks like a river meandering
Yes - and it could also be the wind blowing :idea:

The leaves of a tree blowing in the wind. The weather. Ok, I won't clutter the thread with more guesses as I'm not feeling very inspired today.

 

[Profitaker]

Simple answer
there is huge amount of money to be made on subjects referring to money!!

what about 'Became a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' i wonder how many would fall for that
or 'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps'
we all know thats highly unlikely
but how does this sound? 'you too can make money in the stockmarket' to the average joe its certainly interesting
i believe its becasue with the two example prior we have a point of reference, having to do physics,math or biology at school
but most are not exposed to trading and its quirks and what it involves and those that do economics tend to at least have an understanding of the mechanics of the stockmarket which tricks them into believing that because you understand a balance sheet you can make money trading

How many books are published along the lines of “'Become a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' or “'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps' ? Not many, I would venture to suggest.

Yet there is a massive amount of “'you too can make money in the stockmarket' and most of them complete crap.

I would suggest the main reason for there being so much published crap is that because the markets are completely random, each publication does have some merit, at least some of the time and so cannot be dismissed as crap quite as easily as could “'Become a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' or “'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps'.

As an example, take Elliot wave theory, of which there is much written. To say the market rises in 5 distinct ways and declines in 3 distinct waves for obscure reasons may well hold some truth. But trying to identify which wave a stock is currently on is extremely difficult. Even then, you still need to identify whether the wave is large or small of which the wave is part. What the theory has going for it is the mystical fibonacci numbers and how they naturally occur in nature. But to my mind all books on Elliot wave theory are total crap. Yet you will no doubt find successful traders that swear by Elliot wave and they will say that all books on candlesticks (to pick an example) are crap.

I suggest there is so much published crap out there because each and every system / style / strategy / technique will work and become plausible some of the time.

The human mind is easily fooled by randomness.

 

[new_trader]

How many books are published along the lines of “'Become a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' or “'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps' ? Not many, I would venture to suggest.

Yet there is a massive amount of “'you too can make money in the stockmarket' and most of them complete crap.

I would suggest the main reason for there being so much published crap is that because the markets are completely random, each publication does have some merit, at least some of the time and so cannot be dismissed as crap quite as easily as could “'Become a Doctor of Physics by the end of this course' or “'You too can find a cure for cancer in three easy steps'.

As an example, take Elliot wave theory, of which there is much written. To say the market rises in 5 distinct ways and declines in 3 distinct waves for obscure reasons may well hold some truth. But trying to identify which wave a stock is currently on is extremely difficult. Even then, you still need to identify whether the wave is large or small of which the wave is part. What the theory has going for it is the mystical fibonacci numbers and how they naturally occur in nature. But to my mind all books on Elliot wave theory are total crap. Yet you will no doubt find successful traders that swear by Elliot wave and they will say that all books on candlesticks (to pick an example) are crap.

I suggest there is so much published crap out there because each and every system / style / strategy / technique will work and become plausible some of the time.

The human mind is easily fooled by randomness.

Do you not see at least some relevance with what you have posted and the dialogue between ION and Socrates?

 

[Profitaker]

Do you not see at least some relevance with what you have posted and the dialogue between ION and Socrates?

Erm, no. I have had Soc on ignore for some time now. Makes for more interesting discussion.

 

[new_trader]

Erm, no. I have had Soc on ignore for some time now. Makes for more interesting discussion.

I am talking about the PDF file posted by CYOF

Edited to add: This makes the dialogue even more appropriate, in particular what ION says...

 

[dcraig1]

Haha.....dam those walking hand-bags......sure Jasper Carrot will have that story on file pdq..... :cheesy:

you just know there's a metaphore or analogy in there somewhere......

Perhaps only equaled for "incorrect thinking" in recent times by the foreign tourist, somewhere in the Hawksbury who picked up a 'lizard' to have a better look, only to find out it was a Death Adder. For those unfamiliar with this Australian reptile, bites have a 50% mortality rate without treatment with anti-venom. He ended up in a coma.

OK, I'll shut up now.

 

[dbphoenix]

Perhaps only equaled for "incorrect thinking" in recent times by the foreign tourist, somewhere in the Hawksbury who picked up a 'lizard' to have a better look, only to find out it was a Death Adder. For those unfamiliar with this Australian reptile, bites have a 50% mortality rate without treatment with anti-venom. He ended up in a coma.

Sure beats falling out of a window