How To Think Correctly

[CYOF]

chump

i suspect they mean the same things under certain conditions

No

i maybe wrong here
We are always wrong until proven correct

but to anticipate would mean more of a gut feeling something intangeble many factors together with an assumtion to giving a potential conclusion

ASSUME - Makes an ASS of U and ME


to forecast is more scientific measureable,

Correct - and the market is all about human psychology, not scientific measurements

in this case mathematical may well have several potential outcomes but none the less a conclusion using a scientific/mathematical approach

In order to obtain the System Expectancy, it will, of course, require mathematical calculations.

But, what really matters, is, how the numbers are arrived at so that the mathematical calculations can be carried out.

As you can see, a word can have several meanings, but, remember, we are talking about trading here!

fore·cast /ˈfɔrˌkæst, -ˌkɑst, ˈfoʊr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-kast, -kahst, fohr-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -cast or -cast·ed, -cast·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to predict (a future condition or occurrence); calculate in advance: to forecast a heavy snowfall; to forecast lower interest rates.
2. to serve as a prediction of; foreshadow.
3. to contrive or plan beforehand; prearrange.
–verb (used without object) 4. to conjecture beforehand; make a prediction.
5. to plan or arrange beforehand.
–noun 6. a prediction, esp. as to the weather.
7. a conjecture as to something in the future.
8. the act, practice, or faculty of forecasting.
9. Archaic. foresight in planning.
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an·tic·i·pate /ænˈtɪsəˌpeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-tis-uh-peyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb (used with object), -pat·ed, -pat·ing.
1. to realize beforehand; foretaste or foresee: to anticipate pleasure.
2. to expect; look forward to; be sure of: to anticipate a favorable decision.
3. to perform (an action) before another has had time to act.
4. to answer (a question), obey (a command), or satisfy (a request) before it is made: He anticipated each of my orders.
5. to nullify, prevent, or forestall by taking countermeasures in advance: to anticipate a military attack.
6. to consider or mention before the proper time: to anticipate more difficult questions.
7. to be before (another) in doing, thinking, achieving, etc.: Many modern inventions were anticipated by Leonardo da Vinci.
8. Finance. a. to expend (funds) before they are legitimately available for use.
b. to discharge (an obligation) before it is due.

–verb (used without object) 9. to think, speak, act, or feel an emotional response in advance.
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[CYOF]

Be careful who you give credence to in the trading world, because it's almost certain that the ones who can, talk a good story, are not by any means the ones who can trade well, if at all.

Surely this means that the majority here can't trade :cheesy:

Remember all the information that one little figure can sum up!

 

[CYOF]

Thus the need for tracking and objective comparisons in the trading world.

Has anyone here heard of collective2.com? Maybe not as it is pretty new. TimerTrac.com had an article in this week's Barron's.

dl, you are a vendor.

Just remember, the majority know what vendors do best :arrowu: :arrowl: :arrowd:

 

[CYOF]

No ?

OK I will explain it to you in simple language because obviously you have not uderstood the analogy.

We will have to start again...

A Magician performing for a group of children will present simple acts that will baffle and entertain children from a childish perspective.

He will perform for a group of adults to fascinate, tantalise, mystify and entertain.

He will perform for a group of fellow magicians to display his skills as an art form for the approval of his peers.

These are three very different things.

They become even more different at the extremes.

In the same way, a beginner in trading will be perplexed, confused and curious, and therefore he will follow a path which is very different to that followed by an expert.

The beginner will flirt with all sorts of ideas, including contrarianism.

The expert does not do this, he does not need to, he gets straight to the correct conclusion without unnecessary preamble.

The beginner will be involved in guesswork, perplexity, indecision and confusion.

The expert will be involved in quick assesment and execution without these nuisances.

This is because the latter operates already from a posture of near certainty involving expectation.

Socrates, again your information makes very clear "SENSE" to me.

It should not matter to any reader, who the writer is, or what he does for that matter.

The only thing that matters is what he writes.

Does it make sense or not?

If it does, then the information has value, and warrants further research.

Many are blind to the fact, that some people write certain things, in a certain way, to explain their thoughts on ceratin issues.

If one reads everything at face value - then the hope of ever acquiring new knowledge may never be realised.


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source phi·los·o·phy (fĭ-lŏs'ə-fē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. phi·los·o·phies

1.Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2.Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3.A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4.The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5.The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6.The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7.A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8.A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

 

[CYOF]

Attila, once you have a few years' trading experience under your belt, your opinions will carry a bit more weight. Until then, you'd probably be better off spending your time thinking and listening to those who do have the experience rather than opining on things you know little to nothing about other than what you've read or heard somewhere.

Db

Db,

Do I detect a subtle change in your way of thinking!

For this, is indeed, very good advice, but the approach is more like that of Socrates - which I think is very good by the way - as it forces the individual to question what they are doing.

Remember the posts in relation to the Socratic dialogue.

 

[andycan]

"You are anticipating based upon what you know (should say "based on what you think you know).

And this is true for all of us - just in case some think this is directed at andycan!

And this brings us full circle to your original question
How to think correctly?
or should it be? to think that you are thinking correctly
my thinking is based on what i know of the markets
but what i know is different to what others know or it could be said that how i view the markets is different to how others view it
irrespective its an illusion a perception nobody sees the same things we view everything based on our knowledge and past experiences.
and this is true of the markets even when a market is reversing, many are thinking its correcting others thinking its the start of a new trend
who is thinking correctly? again a perception because they all agree the difference is on the time frame of the so called move
a simplified example but i think you get the gist

 

[CYOF]

transaction is an exchange of price risk ,nothing to do with profit ,or loss. It's an exchange of price risk. That is , the buyer because of his need to take more information before entering the market has taken a higher price risk. I have reduced my price risk by being willing to execute my information risk (knowledge).

Be good all and have a happy xmas with your families.

At last, we start to mention risk!

I was beginning to think that everyone thought that trading for consistent profits had to do with economics and politics.

What is the purpose of a "market".

A "market's" purpose is to facilitate trade.

Now, some may want to hedge, as in large grain producers, some may want to buy money at a certain price so that they can sell it at a higher price (foreign exchange in high street banks and online facility), and others, may want to speculate for profits.

You must first know who you are - and most of us, are speculators, whether we think it or not.

Speculation is all about exchanging risk - and the more risk that is taken on, the higher the potential returns.

But, if one does not fully understand that risk control is of paramount importance - and I don't mean a generalised statement like you have to have a "stop" in the market, then one is in for a big surprise in the real world of trading.

As in any profession, one must first learn the required skill set - this is common sense and is also what most of the discussions are about - how to read charts, price & time, elliot, gann, volume, time & sales, level II, market depth, tick, ticki, trin, trinq, market facilitation index, vix, put-call ratio, prem, arbitrage, programme trading, etc,etc, etc.

One can learn all the skill sets they so desire - and each skill set may require months and months of trial and error to master, but maybe there is a more simple approach.

Maybe, just maybe, it might be as simple as using 1 well known and widely used skill set to:

1. Trade 1 market - or stock
2. Risk .025%(whatever the %preference, but this is mine) of available capital on each trade
3. Work out the Expectancy from a LIVE sample set - say 25-50 trades
4. Evaluate the results and identify the reason for any trade that has an negative R value
5. Make the necessary corrections to eliminate as many of the negative R values as possible
6. Complete at least 4 LIVE sample sets so that the results are more or less consistent
7. Test various position sizing techniques, based on the LIVE sample set results, to indicate what effect the various position sizing would have on the trading account.
8. Test the new position sizing technique/s LIVE , repeating the process from the start.

This is all about risk - the easy part is using the widely used skill set, many of which are available to use. The final selected skill set, SHOULD, be dependant on many personal factors, most of which have been mentioned in the past, so I am not going to repeat here again.

Regards,

 

[CYOF]

"You are anticipating based upon what you know (should say "based on what you think you know).

And this is true for all of us - just in case some think this is directed at andycan!

And this brings us full circle to your original question
How to think correctly?
or should it be? to think that you are thinking correctly

My initial statement was in the context of how an understanding of the thinking process can benefit each and every individual - and not just for trading.


my thinking is based on what i know of the markets
but what i know is different to what others know or it could be said that how i view the markets is different to how others view it

Your thinking (act of trading) should be based on risk control - not what you know of the markets. What you know of the markets is the easy part - as mentioned above.


irrespective its an illusion a perception nobody sees the same things we view everything based on our knowledge and past experiences.

Correct - and we must realise that we really know nothing!


and this is true of the markets even when a market is reversing, many are thinking its correcting others thinking its the start of a new trend

One should not think about what the market may do when in a trade - one should react to what the market is doing


who is thinking correctly? again a perception because they all agree the difference is on the time frame of the so called move

The only ones who are thinking correctly are the ones who are making money - and this can easily be seen with one little figure, which is very hard to get from succesful traders for some reason, I wonder why!

a simplified example but i think you get the gist

Yes - but all is never what it seems.

To say that learning HOW TO THINK CORRECTLY has nothing to do with achieving success as a trader - is, totally and utterly INCORRECT.

However, as the majority want to believe something is correct, instead of proving it to themselves, due to many reasons that we have re-stated over and over in previous posts, then so be it.

If one want's to stay with the majority - that is fine by me, actually, I would go as far as saying that it is great :cheesy:

The more that stay on the low side of the fence the better - for obvious reasons

 

[SOCRATES]

1 One very important ingredient is the motive of the "magician" aka master trader. Is it only to entertain (as you seem to be suggesting, bertie)? 2 If so, he can be more captivating the less truth he reveals, 3 But might not some "magicians" truely be teaching people to see because they are more intersted in seeing the awareness of others increase than in feeding their own ego?

Again you do not understand, you do not seem to get my drift, so I will try again...

1.

I have used the perfomances that a magician will perform for three separate and different audiences to illustrate two points.

The first one is to illustrate the radical difference in presenting a magic performance at the extreme ends of the spectrum (performing for children and performing for other magicians).

The second is to illustrate that a performing magician in the audience, at a club or a show, will view the performing magician's perfromance from a PROFESSIONAL VIEWPOINT, whch is a very different viewpoint any ordinary audience (the general public, adults and children included) can ever possibly have.

Now, if you transmute this and apply it to the markets, which are operated such that price behaviour is not unlike a magic show, it requires something special to be able to tune in to every twist and turn, and to be able to assess developments in advance of the event from a posture of near certainty and using expectancy,, instead of uncertainty, doubt, guesswork and use of risk chance and danger.

Motive....The master magician craves having peers who can equal him. He....as a consequence of being master of his craft, is able to determine easily who is a proficient practictioner of the art of magic and who is not. Furthermore he is able to accurately establish who is his equal and who is not. How is this done ? Very simple...it is done by assessing the quality of the responses he gets...according to his frame of reference...and as to whether his frame of reference is harmonious or not....that is how it is established and allows the top magicians to be able to identify each other in a crowd, uc ? This is why others who do not have that frame of reference are mystified, or become frustrated etc.,

I will tell you that in the same way in the world of magicians and performers of magic there is a code of conduct, an unspoken but accepted code not to reveal magical secrets, so among the world of proficient traders there is also an unspoken code not to reveal.

Why is this ?

This is because among magicians explaining the performance would spoil their livelihood, and amongst proficient and expert traders would give away their edges which have to be jealously guarded.

Therefore what you get is as follows:~

The magician performs magic for an audience but does not explain it to the audience. The audience is given another reason why they have seen what they have seen or why they have experienced what they have experiencced or both.

The really skilled trader does something very similar. He performs and protects his edge by explaining to the audience excuses to justify the results, but not the true mechanism utilised to attain those results. This is crucial to protecting edges.

2.

The more captivating the less he reveals is a BY PRODUCT.

Among top magicians everything is revealed to each other in the same way there is no constraint to keep secrets among top traders who freely have long and detailed exchanges or ideas behind the scenes, just like magicians do, away from prying eyes.

Then in the same way that magicians fraternise and confide in each other is very similar to the way expert tradfers also do the same.

Then when expert traders post they do not necessarily post for the public, they often post, tongue in cheek, for the benefit of each other exclusively.

This is misunderstood for arrogance, being a wordsmith, or a waffler, or an operator of smoke and mirrors, looking form the outside in, but looking from the inside out....is very different indeed.

3,

Yes indeed. But the tragedy is that not everyone is fit for this profession. Therefore it can be taught, but only to a certain level and no further. Also beyond a certain level there is no benefit in taking it higher because it would only succeed in proliferating edges and therefore destroying them. So above a certain level it has to be guarded, The best way to do this is to pretend that above a certain level there is nothing else...but there are a very small ....an infinitessally small number of individuals who have the right qualities who can get to the top, but very few. It is these very few who have the right faculties who mutually interest top practitioners whose exchanges are not made public. That is why you never, or rarely see any of them stepping in to defend me when the clowns appear.

It is the clowns who spoil everything for everybody.

 

[CYOF]

Again, Socrates, there is "sense" in what you say, but how many will do further research to verify what you speak - not many I would think!

AS for Dl, he is a vendor, and we all know what vendors do best, and it is not trading.

So, even though your reply will more than likely go unnoticed, for reasons just mentioned, that does in no way way take away from the value of what you have written.

As I keep saying, it is up to each and every individual to evaluate information for what it is worth.

If you were to ask all, what information has the most value in the relevant posts, then anyone can see that your information has.

DL is a vendor - so when you read his information you must realise this FACT, and then upon reading his words will take on a new meaning - although for me they stand out like a sore thumb

That said, he realises this, as this is what vendors do.

But, I thought I would just mention it in case someone is falling for it

 

[Charlton]

Again you do not understand, you do not seem to get my drift, so I will try again...

1.

I have used the perfomances that a magician will perform for three separate and different audiences to illustrate two points.

The first one is to illustrate the radical difference in presenting a magic performance at the extreme ends of the spectrum (performing for children and performing for other magicians).

The second is to illustrate that a performing magician in the audience, at a club or a show, will view the performing magician's perfromance from a PROFESSIONAL VIEWPOINT, whch is a very different viewpoint any ordinary audience (the general public, adults and children included) can ever possibly have.

Now, if you transmute this and apply it to the markets, which are operated such that price behaviour is not unlike a magic show, it requires something special to be able to tune in to every twist and turn, and to be able to assess developments in advance of the event from a posture of near certainty and using expectancy,, instead of uncertainty, doubt, guesswork and use of risk chance and danger.

Motive....The master magician craves having peers who can equal him. He....as a consequence of being master of his craft, is able to determine easily who is a proficient practictioner of the art of magic and who is not. Furthermore he is able to accurately establish who is his equal and who is not. How is this done ? Very simple...it is done by assessing the quality of the responses he gets...according to his frame of reference...and as to whether his frame of reference is harmonious or not....that is how it is established and allows the top magicians to be able to identify each other in a crowd, uc ? This is why others who do not have that frame of reference are mystified, or become frustrated etc.,

I will tell you that in the same way in the world of magicians and performers of magic there is a code of conduct, an unspoken but accepted code not to reveal magical secrets, so among the world of proficient traders there is also an unspoken code not to reveal.

Why is this ?

This is because among magicians explaining the performance would spoil their livelihood, and amongst proficient and expert traders would give away their edges which have to be jealously guarded.

Therefore what you get is as follows:~

The magician performs magic for an audience but does not explain it to the audience. The audience is given another reason why they have seen what they have seen or why they have experienced what they have experiencced or both.

The really skilled trader does something very similar. He performs and protects his edge by explaining to the audience excuses to justify the results, but not the true mechanism utilised to attain those results. This is crucial to protecting edges.

2.

The more captivating the less he reveals is a BY PRODUCT.

Among top magicians everything is revealed to each other in the same way there is no constraint to keep secrets among top traders who freely have long and detailed exchanges or ideas behind the scenes, just like magicians do, away from prying eyes.

Then in the same way that magicians fraternise and confide in each other is very similar to the way expert tradfers also do the same.

Then when expert traders post they do not necessarily post for the public, they often post, tongue in cheek, for the benefit of each other exclusively.

This is misunderstood for arrogance, being a wordsmith, or a waffler, or an operator of smoke and mirrors, looking form the outside in, but looking from the inside out....is very different indeed.

3,

Yes indeed. But the tragedy is that not everyone is fit for this profession. Therefore it can be taught, but only to a certain level and no further. Also beyond a certain level there is no benefit in taking it higher because it would only succeed in proliferating edges and therefore destroying them. So above a certain level it has to be guarded, The best way to do this is to pretend that above a certain level there is nothing else...but there are a very small ....an infinitessally small number of individuals who have the right qualities who can get to the top, but very few. It is these very few who have the right faculties who mutually interest top practitioners whose exchanges are not made public. That is why you never, or rarely see any of them stepping in to defend me when the clowns appear.

It is the clowns who spoil everything for everybody.

Socrates

An excellent and crystal clear response

Charlton

 

[SOCRATES]

Again, Socrates, there is "sense" in what you say, but how many will do further research to verify what you speak - not many I would think!

AS for Dl, he is a vendor, and we all know what vendors do best, and it is not trading.

So, even though your reply will more than likely go unnoticed, for reasons just mentioned, that does in no way way take away from the value of what you have written.

As I keep saying, it is up to each and every individual to evaluate information for what it is worth.

If you were to ask all, what information has the most value in the relevant posts, then anyone can see that your information has.

DL is a vendor - so when you read his information you must realise this FACT, and then upon reading his words will take on a new meaning - although for me they stand out like a sore thumb

That said, he realises this, as this is what vendors do.

But, I thought I would just mention it in case someone is falling for it

You are right. The percentage is infinitessally small. But there again as I have said before, I do not post for the majority, I post for the absolute minority who I know are able to match me.
Therefore what I post is outside the normal frame of reference to what is mainstream, but is very relevant to the absolute minority who know exactly what it is I am talking about and are able immediately to absolutely concur, but behind the scenes, as a safeguard so they do not get pestered.

Now it does not matter to me who vends and who does not. I am not a vendor. I am not interested in vending anything, basically because I have learnt that beyond a certain point it is very difficult if not impossible to transfer what we shall cal "faculties" to just anyone. :cheesy: For this reason, as I have stated before, the more I observe all this, the more my conclusion hardens that traders are born and not made, with very very few exceptions.

The great majority of vendors wil always vend for a very simple reason. There are exceptions of course, but these exceptions are rare. The reason is that the public will attempt to apply the reasoning they use in daily life to trading. This is futile, absolutely pointless. But the public is apt to choose what it wants, and not necessarily what it needs, :cheesy: what it absolutley needs, so in a society such as ours they have to have the right to choose.:cheesy:

 

[Atilla]

I'm running out of time before I leave so just time for this and no reply from me to posts is not indicative of anything other than I am not here.

First Attila, All of my references to patronising , arrogance etc etc are nothing more than spoofs on comments that you have made. I have a good idea what you think of me ,but you are off the mark , I am not of the former though I enjoy a bit of fun playing with them ,but none of it is of malicious intent which in itself makes being patronising and arrogant pretty much a none event except through misunderstanding.

To the topic and thanks to Cy for his posts above which enable me to jump past having to post the same stuff.
Markets are about :
Knowledge...what you know
Execution ...what action you take
Psychology...above all psychology...what you understand about your own and that of others.

Connect this to forecasting and anticipation.

Let's assume every one of us makes the following forecast...interest rates will rise by the 2nd qtr of 2007 ....how does that make you any money given that each transaction has two sides ?
Our knowledge that such overwhelming bullishness must by logic fail allows us to anticipate such failure. Our execution of such failure occurs on the basis of our knowledge in spotting that failure in an objective manner that excludes the noise from the market which may attempt to make us act incorrectly. Our psychology is incorporated in our action through anticipation and through timing by exploiting price points where others in the market will be seen to be reacting to being on the wrong side. In other words the forecast element of this is useless except for the fact that we can exploit it !

As another example in real life. Why did I sell property over recent years as the price is rising so relatively strongly and if you believe the noise is still doing so ?
Knowledge , anticipation , psychology. I know that such extreme outperformance is typically followed by underperformance in markets that show mean reversion tendencies. I therefore anticipate same and time execution to occur whilst the market still appeals psychologically to would be buyers. This has nothing to do with forecasting at all. Mean reversion may occur in a variety of ways ,but I can't know which in advance , I certainly cannot forecast it , it's unknowable. I can however anticipate it. What I do know is I must resist the psychological temptation to be greedy and stay in past the point at which the market becomes psychologically unappealing to new buyers.

What has happened in that transaction is an exchange of price risk ,nothing to do with profit ,or loss. It's an exchange of price risk. That is , the buyer because of his need to take more information before entering the market has taken a higher price risk. I have reduced my price risk by being willing to execute my information risk (knowledge).

Be good all and have a happy xmas with your families.

Have a nice holiday and festive greetings to you too squire.

Look forward to our banters when you get back.

 

[dbphoenix]

What is it with you and chump?

Patronising arrogance.

1. You make the assumption you can accurately determine what is worthy and and what is not. Arrogance or ignorance? I don't know does this sound like you are contradicting your previous guidance to me?.
2. As someone who has done econometrics and written a paper on it I do know something about forecasting and correllation coefficients and the 95% distribution curve. I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert but been there done it.
3. I do have some experience of trading shares warrants and spread betting.
4. And I have a thirst for knowledge, enthusiasm to learn and the strength of character.

I quote "rather than opining on things you know little to nothing about other than what you've read or heard somewhere"

In all these you put down all my dear professors, teachers, colleagues and friends and articles in books and journals - in making some bold assumption that they are of no use. That is funny.

No put down at all. They may be of great use. But your doing little more than repeating what you've read or heard with the voice of authority with no personal experience to back it up can make you look foolish and often does.

For example, given that you've been short the S&P for the last month (at least), you would do well to pull back a bit and study "trend". Clearly whatever you think you know about "forecasting" is insufficient.

Db

 

[dlpirl]

edge for sale

Again you do not understand, you do not seem to get my drift, so I will try again...

I will tell you that in the same way in the world of magicians and performers of magic there is a code of conduct, an unspoken but accepted code not to reveal magical secrets, so among the world of proficient traders there is also an unspoken code not to reveal.

Intersting that you thought I did not understand. Your explanation made it clear to me that I do understand. My question now is... why aren't you a vendor like me? I know I have something of value to traders that I sell in part so as to maintain my edge. Don't you, bertie?

 

[andycan]

To say that learning HOW TO THINK CORRECTLY has nothing to do with achieving success as a trader - is, totally and utterly INCORRECT.

However, as the majority want to believe something is correct, instead of proving it to themselves, due to many reasons that we have re-stated over and over in previous posts, then so be it.

If one want's to stay with the majority - that is fine by me, actually, I would go as far as saying that it is great :cheesy:

The more that stay on the low side of the fence the better - for obvious reasons

well thats where we differ most dont know the markets even though they say they do
if you truely know the market then the risk exposure is relative to your understanding not the other way round but i know that because i trade for a living
and the reason i know i think correctly is because i make money consistently
but how i got to that stage is what you crave to know and even if i told you how you still would not get it because its a personnal discovery
its something you need to experience rather than be told
but good luck to you hopefully one day it will click and you will then get it

 

[SOCRATES]

Intersting that you thought I did not understand. Your explanation made it clear to me that I do understand. My question now is... why aren't you a vendor like me? I know I have something of value to traders that I sell in part so as to maintain my edge. Don't you, bertie?

That is a very good question and I am very pleased you have asked it.

I am not interested. There was a time when I did run seminars but not any more.

The reason is very simple. The public take what they want from a series of structured lessons and then go on to disregard the wisdom of all who have gone before us. They start to trade indiscriminately, in instruments they do not understand, in unsuitable market conditions, and all this, in multiples because of greed and without using stops because of impatience, lack of self control or what have you.

Then when they make a mess of everything despite warnings in advance to the contrary that they disregard...they go on to blame the tutor, the broker, the software, the connection, the computer, the little devils just waiting to take out their stops, and all this other nonsense.

They do these things because what they want is a blueprint.

They want and crave something that will exonerate them from thinking, from reasoning, from logically deducing and from acting in accordance with these three concepts, for starters.

Then they start to go off and try to take short cuts, with all sorts of indicators and formulas and other mirages.

Then they do all other sorts of nonsenses too numerous to list here.

Alll of this is very tedious.

But all of these things that I have mentioned are only still at a mechanical level, at a basic rock bottom mechanical level, you understand ?

This clearly demonstrates that the public is unable in the most part to progress beyond a certain point.

I am no longer interested in having to grapple with people who even at a rock bottom basic mechanical level have difficulty or find it impossible to control themselves.

It is just a waste of time and effort.

The same applies to books or videos or software.

If you get into the frame of dealing with the public then you will soon find it is a burden on your time which can be more profitably utilised trading, without interruptions, phone calls, faxes, emails, letters, visits, questions and yet more questions from people that regardless as to how clearly things are explained to them, do not seem to be able to grasp anything.

So I am not interested at all in any of that.

I am only interested in the handful of individuals who are at a level of proficiency far above these nuisances, who do not need to ask silly questions, who are not digging for information, who are not brain picking, who do not need to do any of that because they are above all of it.

At the mechanincal level there is this endless seething quest going on......

Above it there is calm.

At the mechanical level there is an instictive drive to share, to disseminate, to discuss, to dig, to argue, to enquire, to try to find out X Y or Z........

Above it there is no need for this as everything has been found.

At the mechanical level there is this collective drive in favour of sharing.....all sorts of arguments are presented in its favour....

At the mechanical level there is requirement for proofs, argument, rudeness, aggression, envy and all sorts of negative sentiments......

Above it there is cooperation, agreement , conscensus, and all below is viewed in quiet contemplation and with wry amusement.

Above it there is no sharing, only an informal mutual amiration society exists, without any pressures whatsoever, because there is no need.

These are different worlds, you see. It does not mean that because everyone is not priviledged to inhabit them and experience them, that they do not exist.

I am not interested in the former, I am interested only in the latter, and that is why my reply to your question is negative.

 

[CYOF]

You all talk of trading as it is something mystical, that takes years and years of live trading in order to become successful.

I say bulls**t.

I have mentioned what trading is really all about in my previous post, containing some simple steps that will allow one stay in the game long enough to understand what speculation really means.

spec·u·la·tion /ˌspɛkyəˈleɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spek-yuh-ley-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
2. a single instance or process of consideration.
3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.
4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.
5. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, esp. trading in commodities, stocks, etc., in the hope of profit from changes in the market price.
6. a speculative commercial venture or undertaking.


Just because it takes some people years and years to learn , does in no way imply that it will take another person the same length of time.

In fact, I will take it one step further, and say that someone who has no trading experience whatsoever, has a far better chance of making consistent returns, if they are willing to commit to what must be done from the outset, not what they want to do, or think they want to do, based on the opinions of others.

The first step is realising the fact that one must start to think differently than the majority.

There are proven techniques available that will allow this to happen, and by adopting these techniques, one will then be able to learn How To Think Correctly.


Of the Education of Children (1580)

"And yet, even in this conversing with men I spoke of but now, I have observed this vice, that instead of gathering observations from others, we make it our whole business to lay ourselves upon them, and are more concerned how to expose and set out our own commodities, than how to increase our stock by acquiring new"

Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, 1533-1592

 

[SOCRATES]

You all talk of trading as it is something mystical, that takes years and years of live trading in order to become successful.

I say bulls**t.

I have mentioned what trading is really all about in my previous post, containing some simple steps that will allow one stay in the game long enough to understand what speculation really means.

spec·u·la·tion /ˌspɛkyəˈleɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spek-yuh-ley-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
2. a single instance or process of consideration.
3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.
4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.
5. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, esp. trading in commodities, stocks, etc., in the hope of profit from changes in the market price.
6. a speculative commercial venture or undertaking.


Just because it takes some people years and years to learn , does in no way imply that it will take another person the same length of time.

In fact, I will take it one step further, and say that someone who has no trading experience whatsoever, has a far better chance of making consistent returns, if they are willing to commit to what must be done from the outset, not what they want to do, or think they want to do, based on the opinions of others.

The first step is realising the fact that one must start to think differently than the majority.

There are proven techniques available that will allow this to happen, and by adopting these techniques, one will then be able to learn How To Think Correctly.


Of the Education of Children (1580)

"And yet, even in this conversing with men I spoke of but now, I have observed this vice, that instead of gathering observations from others, we make it our whole business to lay ourselves upon them, and are more concerned how to expose and set out our own commodities, than how to increase our stock by acquiring new"

Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, 1533-1592

Yes, agreed because it has to do with acceptance and not forcing or imaptience or impulsiveness, and these difficulties take some people less time and others longer, and some never quite overcome these difficulties and fail, as a consequence also of ignoring the experience of all who have gone before us, whose wisdom is recorded and which is foolish to ignore.

 

[laptop1]

With the amount of posting you do on trade2win, where do you find the time to trade SOCS