How much?

[Pazienza]

I was looking at tutors at the weekend, I've stopped now. Thanks for the advice.

This is very sensible. Listen to pboyles, he is honest and knows what he's talking about. Bear in mind that a lot of people have their own agendas, so be very wary of advice you receive on here. There are a lot of people on this forum whose main object in participating is to prey on new members.

I'm sure that not all educators are crooks, however without experience you will not be in a position to make a good judgement about them. When you have sufficient experience to do so, it is probable that you will not need one.

It is quite possible that you might find a good educator or education service. However, it is highly unlikely.

Whatever you do, you should at least spend some time doing your own research and learning first. If at that point you really feel you need to pay for tuition, you will be better placed to judge its quality and you will have had some experience of teaching yourself. It is difficult to understand why at the beginning, but the process of discovery is almost as important as the discoveries themselves.

 

[Black Swan]

Builderman,

Earlier in the thread Reminiscences of a Stock Operator was mentioned. This is a good book but I feel someone who has been trading for while would get more from it.

The book I would really recommend is -Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van K. Tharp. You cannot fault his trading credentials or the credentials of the books contributors.

What I like about the book is the heavy concentration on the parts of trading that really matter.

Not this again, reminiscences is totally irrelevant to what you do/ we do. Van K Tharp is an excellent recommendation.

 

[Black Swan]

If you read my post again, I said the concept is transferable. You can lay down the rules on a piece of paper for everyone, yet very few would be able to achieve astounding success. Most of that comes from practice and then with that comes their own opinions and set of rules thus the term "Form your own opinion"

Your disagreement with my statement is what is really needed to build up the market. You disagree and I am wrong you take my dollars and if I am right you bet your wallet is mine.

We need traders and investors with different opinions and choices. This is what creates competition in any marketplace whether you are selling oranges or software to multinational corps or choosing a dress for your wedding!

You stated almost all successful traders can't teach, or explain their methods, that's quite simply risible nonsense.

 

[new_trader]

Not this again, reminiscences is totally irrelevant to what you do/ we do. Van K Tharp is an excellent recommendation.

Utter horsesh!t

 

[Pazienza]

Utter horsesh!t

That's putting it kindly.

 

[Black Swan]

Utter horsesh!t

God, not again, your quasi religious clinging to a piece of fiction is bizarre.

 

[Black Swan]

That's putting it kindly.

You feeling brave again Phil, how brave, wanna meet up?

 

[JRP2891]

You feeling brave again Phil, how brave, wanna meet up?

First name terms, get a room you two.

 

[new_trader]

God, not again, your quasi religious clinging to a piece of fiction is bizarre.

I suspect that sometime soon you will display a vendor icon, nothing else can explain the things you post. I don’t believe you make money trading.

 

[Black Swan]

I suspect that sometime soon you will display a vendor icon, nothing else can explain the things you post. I don’t believe you make money trading.

Lol.. I only trade the euro, I do a lot better than you ever have or will sunshine.

 

[the hare]

God, not again, your quasi religious clinging to a piece of fiction is bizarre.

ROASO is rather a unique book, and its definately relevant.

Everything you need is laid it out in detail with nothing hidden, and yet its able to succesfully hide everything from most of the people who read it. I probably read it once a year, and every time I get some sort of revelation (and a lot of amusement).

I honestly think that if I read the book for another 50 years I'll probably continue to find something new with each read (a bit like Mr Socco's posts at the zoo)

Its sometimes difficult to determine the difference between someone who genuinely knows the score, and someone who doesnt, but there's just to many examples of genuine insight in that book to leave me in any doubt. I find it difficult to comprehend how a non trader could have written it.

The irresponsible nonsense spouted at T2W zoo is already more than damaging enough to ensure that most will fail, but it would be a great pity if anyone decides not to read one of the few genuinely great trading books due to negative comments.

 

[Black Swan]

Hare,
It's a great book, incredibly entertaining, read it twice, actually three because I re read the annotations on the last hard back edition, but as a trading "manual" utterly pointless. It's a zeitgeist issue with many on here..nothing more..

The strokes Jesse pulled, and the strokes he had pulled on him, bear absolutely no relation to what close on all of us will experience in our trading lives, it's more relevant to the strokes Bob Diamond or Hank Paulson would pull..

 

[pboyles]

I suspect that sometime soon you will display a vendor icon, nothing else can explain the things you post. .

That's how it looks to me too.

 

[the hare]

but as a trading "manual" utterly pointless..

100% agreed.

The recent games pulled by Barnett Alexander wouldnt be out of place in ROASO, and that level of manipulation could be well within the means of many here who are just dabbling.

 

[timsk]

Hi builderman,
It is inevitable that on a free forum with a large membership that a huge variety of opinions will be posted and that - as 'the hare' mentioned in an earlier post - some of them will be nonsense and, even, dangerously misleading to the novice trader. So, without doubt, you need to question what you read and think long and hard about acting on any advice you receive. To help you, the Stickies and FAQs are designed to overcome this very problem and are written specifically with prospectivbe traders like you in mind. If you start with the 2nd one in my signature, that will provide you with an insight as to what you're letting yourself in for and help you to make an informed decision as to whether or not trading is right for you.
Enjoy!
Tim.

 

[Joey25]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

With leverage, you can make whatever you want.

Say you invest in an Exchange Traded Fund with exposure to an underlying asset (e.g. Indian Stock Market) that has historically made an average of, for instance, 10% p.a. If you leverage 10x, then you expect to make 100%p.a.

The real issue is to decide at what level of chance you are willing to wipe out 25%, 50%,..., 100% of your account. For this you need the volatility of the fund.

The same goes for any analysis / trading rule you invent yourself - work out the expected return over a reasonable sample, work out the extreme moves, and then decide on the leverage level to meet your goals. Just bear in mind that with reward comes risk.

 

[Black Swan]

Hi trade 2 win, Being a builder at the moment is no fun at all with rates of pay falling through the floor, so I'm now looking at selling up (vans,tools etc) and becoming a trader. How much would I be able to make on say £25000, is £40000 a year realstic? I could get more but would need to take out a loan and borrow from friends and family. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

Look buddy, you're obviously a doer so get just get stuck in and do. Ask all the questions as youre learning on the job eh?

First step open demo account, then full account with no more than 500 quid..

 

[Pazienza]

God, not again, your quasi religious clinging to a piece of fiction is bizarre.

Hare,
It's a great book, incredibly entertaining, read it twice, actually three because I re read the annotations on the last hard back edition, but as a trading "manual" utterly pointless. It's a zeitgeist issue with many on here..nothing more..

The strokes Jesse pulled, and the strokes he had pulled on him, bear absolutely no relation to what close on all of us will experience in our trading lives, it's more relevant to the strokes Bob Diamond or Hank Paulson would pull..

I'm actually going to put aside all the petty bickering and try to help you. I don't know why, you'll probably just be rude to me in return like you normally are, calling me a damaged fooktard c11nt and saying that my wife is a fat bingo retard or some such. I suppose I'm just a people person, and I can't help myself - I love helping others.

I actually used to feel the same way as you. I had seen a lot of people recommending the book, but I didn't think there was any point in reading it, despite the fact that they said it was essential, greatest trading book ever written etc. I suppose I thought that if there were no charts in it it couldn't be "practical".

Anyway, I carried on with my learning, getting a little better but struggling to break through the break even barrier. Then one year as we were getting ready to go on holiday, I thought what the hell, I'll give it a read and see what all the fuss is about.

I read it twice in the fortnight whilst we were away and as soon as we got back I ordered "How to Trade in Stocks". I read Reminiscences again whilst I awaited delivery.

It was as though somebody had turned the light on in a cellar. It was that "eureka" moment. From then on I was able to see with perfect clarity and I have honestly never looked back. That was the moment where I realised that I could actually do this. I think now of my ignorant dismissal of this extraordinary masterpiece and I cringe.

That was the experience of someone who was as sceptical as you you are about it. I've got something to attend to briefly but I'll explain why these books are so indispensable in my next post.

 

[Joey25]

I thought there was a pretty transparent P&F method alluded to in ROASO...

 

[Black Swan]

Turned a light on in your cellar...Yeah that fits.. The rest of your post is patronising drivel..not the random filth you came out with on Friday, but drivel none the less. Help yourself, stop posting 5hite..