builderman
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I was looking at tutors at the weekend, I've stopped now. Thanks for the advice.
How much?
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B
Black Swan
So have you stopped looking for a tutor/mentor based on a few posts you've read on a trading forum? Dyor...on everything trading related..in fact dyor on everything then reach your own conclusions based on your own experience.
Swapped a couple pms recently with a guy pi55es himself laughing at all the neg mentor stuff on here, he knew nothing about trading, started in a trading room a couple of years back and is not alone in having a cracking education (away from all the noise on forums) and draws down a decent income from trading most months.. Now if this vendors face hadn't fitted, or if a couple of failures had decided to moan their tits off on t2w, then the vendor might never have got off the ground.
new_trader
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That explains why some learn to fly, so they can takeoff with your money!
Perhaps you could point us all to a thread on T2W where one of these training programs or mentorships turned out to be a roaring success. I can think or five or six that were a scam ie taking money from people and then going bust or disappearing.
B
Black Swan
If you want to, or feel the need to list them then fire away..I'm not interested tbh but I'm sure theres folk who would be..IMHO it constitutes a tiny proportion of the industry, but on t2w it's a big issue..never understood why but hey ho..takes all sorts eh?
If you want to, or feel the need to list them then fire away..I'm not interested tbh but I'm sure theres folk who would be..IMHO it constitutes a tiny proportion of the industry, but on t2w it's a big issue..never understood why but hey ho..takes all sorts eh?
OK name just one that turned out to be a roaring success, or even a moderate success.
safvan
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If you read the link to the article I posted it mentions that you can teach someone a method but you cannot teach him consistency and this comes with practice.
Almost all successful traders and investors cannot explain anyone how to trade profitably because to them its the result of practice for years and has become the part of their procedural memory.
You cannot effectively teach or explain anyone how to talk or how to walk or how to sleep. This is something we do on daily basis and has become the part of set of procedures we follow as humans. Its concept is transferable but not really the practice which everyone does on his own.
With time every professional no matter in whatever profession develops this skill and can become proficient.
In the end its about giving yourself time and practicing the same thing again and again and then again until it becomes daily thing. After that it would not look like hard work.
Almost all successful traders and investors cannot explain anyone how to trade profitably because to them its the result of practice for years and has become the part of their procedural memory.
You cannot effectively teach or explain anyone how to talk or how to walk or how to sleep. This is something we do on daily basis and has become the part of set of procedures we follow as humans. Its concept is transferable but not really the practice which everyone does on his own.
With time every professional no matter in whatever profession develops this skill and can become proficient.
In the end its about giving yourself time and practicing the same thing again and again and then again until it becomes daily thing. After that it would not look like hard work.
B
Black Swan
Check out post number 13, heartless ba5tard...
rawrschach
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if you read that thread it seems like everyone liked the mentor
also, how d'you think traders learn at IBs and Hedge Funds?
also, how d'you think traders learn at IBs and Hedge Funds?
new_trader
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You almost have me convinced that you understand what is what and what is not! An excellent post but the majority will ignore it and go searching for another ‘set-up’ or ‘system’ thread...or whatever. A real trading edge is non-transferrable :!:
B
Black Swan
I completely disagree with this statement. As for the link to the blog it's simply standard four corners of competence stuff written very badly, eventually we arrive at unconscious competence level etc..etc..
By buying courses off the Internet? Probably not.
Hi builderman -
Hope you're not too despondent after all the gloomy advice from the hard-bitten traders here. Don't give up on trading.
The mechanics of trading are easy - open an account in 10 minutes, look at charts, buy those going up, sell those going down, drink coffee, read a good quality paper, close the positions and bank the profit.
But don't let the easy mechanics make you thnk that success is going to be easy. That's why 95% who've tried have failed. But think about the barriers to entry - if any mug with £500 and a few hours to spare could become a registered builder, how many of them do you think would make it past the first tax year end? Probably only about 5%. So on that score, trading is not so high risk.
My advice would be to open a spreadbetting account and start to trade with real money, money you have sweated for and paid tax on, but limit yourself to £1000, £3k at most. Trade minimum stakes. Learn how to read charts, learn how losing positions feel, learn how to protect your capital. You can do all this part-time without making any life-changing decisions yet. If you can make £1k into £2k without any lucky big wins or any disastrous big losers, but with consistent thoroughly planned trades, increase your account. If you're still consistent, increase your account, all the time refining your skills.
Eventually, you won't have to make any life-changing decisions about whether to stay in building, I hope your trading will tell you you just don't have time to be a builder any more, it would stop you making a living.
Above all, don't focus on the money, focus on being a brilliant trade manager. That's hopefully how you had a successful building career, no doubt you weren't thinking about the cost of the bricks you were building into a wall when you were actually laying them, you were focusing on knowing how to build a great wall and doing a good job for the client so that tomorrow you would get another job and know how to do that well, maybe better.
Protect your capital, take your losses but keep them small, don't get knocked out, don't get greedy, stay in the game, don't look for shortcuts. I hope you'll stay with us.
builderman
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Thanks for all the great advice.
the hare
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Me too, although I kind of know where they are coming from. I was a discretionary trader but there was always a nagging doubt that I might have just been lucky, and ironically it was that reason I ended up trading a random system
Anyone who cant explain their edge does not have one.
safvan
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If you read my post again, I said the concept is transferable. You can lay down the rules on a piece of paper for everyone, yet very few would be able to achieve astounding success. Most of that comes from practice and then with that comes their own opinions and set of rules thus the term "Form your own opinion"
Your disagreement with my statement is what is really needed to build up the market. You disagree and I am wrong you take my dollars and if I am right you bet your wallet is mine.
We need traders and investors with different opinions and choices. This is what creates competition in any marketplace whether you are selling oranges or software to multinational corps or choosing a dress for your wedding!
safvan
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The point is that in ANY industry there are averagers and then there are exceptional people who excel. The reason behind being successful and an averager is not the lack of availability of how to knowledge but the ability of developing skill and practice and then finally innovation which comes from experience in the field.
There are 1001 books available on value investing, momentum investing etc but there are only a few like warren buffet, dan zanger, bruce kovner, george soros, jim rogers, james simmons etc. You ask Warren Buffet or Dan Zanger their method or edge they would be able to tell you that in 30 minutes. What they cannot pass on is experience of procedural memory which in turn has given them the unique ability to choose their investments wisely. Heck I would even go out and say they can virtually hand over the name of the stock and the entry and exits on it and yet there would be a huge chance that most of us would not be able to make any money off it.
Experience is a BIG teacher in life for everything.
Many of you posters here that have had an established career in the past would stump upon the importance of experience and discretion of methods that comes with that ONLY after you have developed STRONG procedural memory. You have to walk before you can innovate and start brisk walking and then innovate again to start running. You can only start running after you have become an expert walker which took you around 3 to 4 years from your birth! Now if I ask you how do you run or run so fast, I bet other than objective points you would not be able to explain me your edge which is not transferable and only comes with experience and hard work of running daily 30 miles!
You cannot lose weight until you continuously exercise and keep your calories low. This is what every one knows so there you go you have the edge now ! but very few determined people are able to lose weight who do not give up and keep doing the same thing every day and eventually start to lose weight and get in shape! Few exceptional people would keep at it, innovate and become professional body builders and models and actors!
There are 1001 books available on value investing, momentum investing etc but there are only a few like warren buffet, dan zanger, bruce kovner, george soros, jim rogers, james simmons etc. You ask Warren Buffet or Dan Zanger their method or edge they would be able to tell you that in 30 minutes. What they cannot pass on is experience of procedural memory which in turn has given them the unique ability to choose their investments wisely. Heck I would even go out and say they can virtually hand over the name of the stock and the entry and exits on it and yet there would be a huge chance that most of us would not be able to make any money off it.
Experience is a BIG teacher in life for everything.
Many of you posters here that have had an established career in the past would stump upon the importance of experience and discretion of methods that comes with that ONLY after you have developed STRONG procedural memory. You have to walk before you can innovate and start brisk walking and then innovate again to start running. You can only start running after you have become an expert walker which took you around 3 to 4 years from your birth! Now if I ask you how do you run or run so fast, I bet other than objective points you would not be able to explain me your edge which is not transferable and only comes with experience and hard work of running daily 30 miles!
You cannot lose weight until you continuously exercise and keep your calories low. This is what every one knows so there you go you have the edge now ! but very few determined people are able to lose weight who do not give up and keep doing the same thing every day and eventually start to lose weight and get in shape! Few exceptional people would keep at it, innovate and become professional body builders and models and actors!
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Builderman,
Earlier in the thread Reminiscences of a Stock Operator was mentioned. This is a good book but I feel someone who has been trading for while would get more from it.
The book I would really recommend is -Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van K. Tharp. You cannot fault his trading credentials or the credentials of the books contributors.
What I like about the book is the heavy concentration on the parts of trading that really matter.
Earlier in the thread Reminiscences of a Stock Operator was mentioned. This is a good book but I feel someone who has been trading for while would get more from it.
The book I would really recommend is -Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van K. Tharp. You cannot fault his trading credentials or the credentials of the books contributors.
What I like about the book is the heavy concentration on the parts of trading that really matter.
safvan
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Good Advice. I always recommend to read established success and get clues from there instead of these commercial mentors.
Success leaves clues.
