FAQ How Long Does it Take to Make a Stable Income from Trading?

[itspossible]

I am a futures daytrader with the scars to prove it if you want to see them PM me. Show me the futures traders who make stable income. I know DionysusToast and dbphoenix and others who have an interest in futures make a calculable and stable income, but I have yet to encounter any futures traders who do.

Thank you for being honest about how hard it is to make it.Would you disclose your trading history on here?im just very nosey lol.my history is managed to make a small amount with a 20k account over about 3 yrs.was u and down like a yo yo-lost 5k doing shares-made it back spreadbetting-BREAK EVEN-tRAded very small and was about £1200 up -disaster struck and lost 800-had stops in but they were gapped through-so at least i didnt blow up-too tough for me the trading game

 

[petetrades]

Thank you for being honest about how hard it is to make it.Would you disclose your trading history on here?im just very nosey lol.my history is managed to make a small amount with a 20k account over about 3 yrs.was u and down like a yo yo-lost 5k doing shares-made it back spreadbetting-BREAK EVEN-tRAded very small and was about £1200 up -disaster struck and lost 800-had stops in but they were gapped through-so at least i didnt blow up-too tough for me the trading game

I have lost £20,000-80,000 each of the many years I have daytraded futures or stocks, commissions to the brokerage got from me around £5,000-7,000 per year. Even when I'm profitable during some years (years always end as negative even if positive) I feel like I'm treading water or I need to make more and more to make up for the expenses due to how much it costs just to daytrade futures.

 

[Signalcalc]

For the guys that have 'consistently' not done well what analysis are you guys using ? Chart patterns, moving averages, trend following, mean reversion, systematic, discretionary, any and all of the above?

 

[petetrades]

For the guys that have 'consistently' not done well what analysis are you guys using ? Chart patterns, moving averages, trend following, mean reversion, systematic, discretionary, any and all of the above?

All of the above minus systematic trading.

 

[Fugazsy]

An overshoot of a trendline, usually you can count 3 waves or pushes on a 5 min chart intraday on futures after you see an extreme move...turns out this was just a new leg down in a downtrend more often than exhaustion, utterly unreliable strategy, only useful for marketing to newbies who haven't had their pockets drained by the markey yet, as Db_Phoenix knows I'm sure. VWAP is volume-weighted average price, the standard deviations of VWAP can be useful on a stock like AAPL but futures moves too fast and chaotically based on orderbook predatory algos and the like.

I am talking about a test/undershoot/overshot of the recent extreme after a healthy pullback with a break of a major trend line... in my experience they work at least 60% of times.....most of the time the reward is at least the risk, sometime they pay very well...

 

[petetrades]

I am talking about a test/undershoot/overshot of the recent extreme after a healthy break of a major trend line... in my experience they work at least 60% of times.....most of the time the reward is at least the risk, sometime they pay very well...

Not on index futures or commodity futures, higher timeframes charts reveal this setup's viability is illusory, more like 55-45 one way or the other, flip a coin which way, no edge here once commissions and trade management are factored in.

 

[Fugazsy]

Not on index futures or commodity futures, higher timeframes charts reveal this setup's viability is illusory, more like 55-45 one way or the other, flip a coin which way, no edge here once commissions and trade management are factored in.

I only trade forex, I have not any idea how to trade what you mentioned.

Here we are talking about possible major reversals, in forex technicality will not be enough for a possible reversal at the new extreme, one needs to take in consideration relative strength, if one is trying to reverse a strong currency versus a weak one he/she has little chances to turn the trade in a positive way but if she is trying to reverse a pair when they matches in either weakness or strength the chances are much more greater, it can be more than 60% which is of course dependable on the trader personal skills.

I guess it will be the same with major stocks, if Apple is showing a major bearish reversal you expect the sp500 in showing weakness or at least prices are at a major resistance.

 

[tar]

Not on index futures or commodity futures, higher timeframes charts reveal this setup's viability is illusory, more like 55-45 one way or the other, flip a coin which way, no edge here once commissions and trade management are factored in.

Its funny you mention indices hence they just go up with time ...

 

[petetrades]

Its funny you mention indices hence they just go up with time ...

That's not relevant for daytrading.

 

[tar]

That's not relevant for daytrading.

You dont have to daytrade , another idea here is to just daytrade the buy signals ....

 

[darktone]

That's not relevant for daytrading.

Some would disagree with your opinion on that

 

[darktone]

some questions:-

1) How many years have you been trading?
2) In ES, what kinda size do you trade relative to acc? (notional / acc)
3) Have you ever ever learned to 'manage risk with size' as Don puts it?
4) What does the sum of money lost mean to you?
5) Do you look for confirmation before you trade?

and the old fav

6) Do you like to use stops to manage risk?

 

[petetrades]

some questions:-

1) How many years have you been trading?
2) In ES, what kinda size do you trade relative to acc? (notional / acc)
3) Have you ever ever learned to 'manage risk with size' as Don puts it?
4) What does the sum of money lost mean to you?
5) Do you look for confirmation before you trade?

and the old fav

6) Do you like to use stops to manage risk?

1. 5+ years
2. Maximum margin w/deep discount futures bucketshots to the default high margins w/more conservative brokerages.
3. No
4. Everything at the moment, hoping to get back on my feet with a profitable year once I find some money.
5. Sometimes, this can make me too late and guarantee a loss.
6. I don't like to, but ES has less stop runs than CL, so I do use stops on the ES at times but am quite aware this is a magnet for HFT.

 

[darktone]

1. 5+ years
2. Maximum margin w/deep discount futures bucketshots to the default high margins w/more conservative brokerages.
3. No
4. Everything at the moment, hoping to get back on my feet with a profitable year once I find some money.
5. Sometimes, this can make me too late and guarantee a loss.
6. I don't like to, but ES has less stop runs than CL, so I do use stops on the ES at times but am quite aware this is a magnet for HFT.

Thanks for those answers pete

 

[petetrades]

Thanks for those answers pete

I'm sure there are more losers around here like me than most would expect. Ancedotes about traders who made it back from such bad situations by trading would be inspiring.

All the success stories I've read and believed tend to be from vendors and wealthy people making small bits of income from active trading with the hidden ace up their sleeves usually being their trading vendor products, CDs, bonds, rental properties, etc, not some epiphany from mastering technical analysis and day trading. I would like to be wrong on this.

 

[alextrader79]

In general, it took me nearly 3 years to make some sort of 'career' on Forex.

 

[BeedyBrandy]

3 years is quite a while. I've been going for a year. I hope it doesn't take another two years before I can make a success of it

 

[fouclycm]

3 years is quite a while. I've been going for a year. I hope it doesn't take another two years before I can make a success of it

I think what he means is to have a solid career in -forex on enough experience okay. If you already have a year you are on track, only accumulate as much experience as you can and be smart in your investments.

 

[alextrader79]

I think what he means is to have a solid career in -forex on enough experience okay. If you already have a year you are on track, only accumulate as much experience as you can and be smart in your investments.

That's it. You don't have to trade on demo for years before going live. I made my first strategy in a few months, tested it and tried with a little deposit. After I corrected what went wrong and checked if it was proper, I enlarged my depo. Every month I analyzed what I did and improved my trading system. Now I can say that in three years it became really profitable for me. Knowledge and experience I got during those three years was essential and if I look back on that trader who I was and compare him to the trader I am now... I changed a lot professionally.
The secret is not to give up, analyze, improve.

 

[petetrades]

In general, it took me nearly 3 years to make some sort of 'career' on Forex.

Can you clarify what your yearly income is from Forex trading? How stable are your returns over months - years. How much % of trading capital is made per year and how much % do you pay in commissions and fees. Thank you