How do you recover from a £25,000 loss....

[Masquerade]

As for which trade has more risk it depends,...YOU did not give enough information. You need to give the stop loss, and either purchase price or number of shares bought, for me to know. I assume the 2% and 10% you referred to were trading capital. I would be happy to give you the answer. I just think it's comical that you stand so proudly as if you know what you are talking about and refuse to provide all the information needed to come up with the answer to your own question.

Provide the stop loss and number of shares and your answer will be obvious. We will assume you have $100K acct. to make the math easier. That would mean $2000 in one trade and $10,000 in another. Now give the stop loss and number of shares purchased or purchase price and it is a 2 step process to give your answer that you think is so elusive...:cheesy:

This was my point exactly. Someone said "trade 2%", I asked "why 2%? Why not 1%/0.76%/5% etc.?" and they tell me to go to a spreadsheet because they don't know other than it's conventional trading thinking. So I posed the question "If I take a trade and use 2% and another with 10% - which trade has more risk."

It's a trick question because you can't answer it without knowing more. That was my point. The fact they didn't ask for more information, meant they didn't understand risk. I'm glad you could actually appreciate there's a bit more complexity to it all rather than trading an arbitrary % of an account.

 

[dc2000]

So ya all are trading with a stop order in the market?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

So ya all are trading with a stop order in the market?

If I have my way, I would only have stops while I sleep, or when I go to the bathroom. When I am awake and watching, I want no stops. To me, having stops is like telling the market: come rape me.

 

[mrfigure]

problem with stops is they nearly always get hit as we know. I am a place a trade and watch, which has paid off until recently :-(

 

[Hoggums]

Why do people take stops so personally. You have to switch your thinking - stops aren't a great evil that makes you lose money - they are the things that prevent you from losing money.

You will never be successful trying to avoid taking losses. They are the cost of trading, get comfortable with it - and don't take each loss as a personal failure.

 

[dc2000]

If I have my way, I would only have stops while I sleep, or when I go to the bathroom. When I am awake and watching, I want no stops. To me, having stops is like telling the market: come rape me.

agreed
you put things so eloquently

 

[eegozi]

This was my point exactly. Someone said "trade 2%", I asked "why 2%? Why not 1%/0.76%/5% etc.?" and they tell me to go to a spreadsheet because they don't know other than it's conventional trading thinking. So I posed the question "If I take a trade and use 2% and another with 10% - which trade has more risk."

It's a trick question because you can't answer it without knowing more. That was my point. The fact they didn't ask for more information, meant they didn't understand risk. I'm glad you could actually appreciate there's a bit more complexity to it all rather than trading an arbitrary % of an account.

That is why I made mention of the fact that there is a difference between capital in a trade and capital AT RISK in the trade. I have trades that consumed 76% of my trading capital but only RISKED 0.5% of my capital because I had such a tight stop. I have others that consume 2% of my capital but that also RISK 0.5%. Again it depends on stops, volatility, and number shares bought.

 

[eegozi]

problem with stops is they nearly always get hit as we know. I am a place a trade and watch, which has paid off until recently :-(

You are describing HARD stops (set and forget) vs. SOFT (mental) stops. I think SOFT stops are better in that you do not give away your hand to the market makers and brokers BUT,..you MUST adhere to your stop if your mental SOFT stop gets hit,...you MUST place the trade and get out. Either way a stop is in place even if only on paper (or your mind) as in SOFT stops. Problem for me is that i trade MOSTLY end of day and some 60 min charts because I have a full time job. I can not watch the market consistently so I set HARD stops and walk away. I have had more success setting my stops about 1% BELOW where I calculate the trigger for me to be wrong or stopped out. That way there is some wiggle room.

 

[dc2000]

Hi guys, look firstly thanks for all the replies, some people have been rather blunt but i wouldnt have it any other way, its a rough game so no time for treading on tip toes with comments. Shame its turned slightly into a bit of an argument but its all good im sure.
I will confirm the trade I opened. Iv recovered the details from my account as all trades are recorded of course. It was on the IG Index germany 30 - placed at 09:51 Tuesday 23rd August. The trade opened at 5596.8 £200 per point long. IG call it a DFB, which is daily forward bet. Someone mentioned earlier that it is not the exact dax30 but is IG's own version.
As previously stated, I was comfortable, (not particularly pleased) but comfortable when the trade began to go against me. For my own reasons I had confidence this particular market would rise and turn to profit for my account even if it meant holding the trade for a day or two. Unfortunately the price fell far beyond what I expected and cleaned my account out.
I have recovered the IG chart for the day in question and have also obtained the actual dax30 chart.
The IG HLOC is : H 5635.8 L 5430.7 O 5446.3 C 5620.1
The DAX30 is : H 5636.1 L 5465.6 O 5529.3 C 5532.4



Im a little confused here what was your profit target ? I dont know what price you had from IG but looking at my charts you should have been sitting on an easy £10k on the spike with the 2nd exit.

 

[dc2000]

The fill was the kill not the no stop

 

[mrfigure]

dc trade was filled at 5596 long. It then nose dived only to come back to where the trade opened and beyond. Didnt have a profit target. I monitor the live chart to see its strength or weakness to make profit decisions.

 

[dc2000]

thats what I mean the trade was filled @9:51 after that the market spiked twice, not sure of SB prices, then dived to fill the gap the price it was filled at seems high

 

[mrfigure]

dc what chart are you looking at, the one i provided in the link earlier ?

 

[KenMedanic]

Easy, take a week off, gather your thoughts, make some changes to your trading methodology and start trading again.

 

[mrfigure]

Haha i like it Ken, keep things simple

 

[dc2000]

dc what chart are you looking at, the one i provided in the link earlier ?

my mistake I had my DAX chart on CET so the 9:51 price was showing the 8:51 price

 

[mrfigure]

Well did a paper trade today using the same methods as i did to build up to 25k. Wall street has been strong today but seeing it was a paper trade i wanted to test my 'skillz' as someone put it and go against the trend. Shame it was only paper as it would have banked me £350. Nice to get back into things though.

 

[D70]

From reading most of the posts. I dont think people understand the fundamentals of the market and the existence of the bid / offer. People seem to talk as if there is an infinity of trading to be done at a particular price. If you havent seen a cqg / tt / IB or sterling ladder (or any other), search on youtube and see what is really happening in the market. It isnt much different from the guy selling apples in your local market. Will help no end with your trading.

 

[x4x]

Well did a paper trade today using the same methods as i did to build up to 25k. Wall street has been strong today but seeing it was a paper trade i wanted to test my 'skillz' as someone put it and go against the trend. Shame it was only paper as it would have banked me £350. Nice to get back into things though.

Seems like you've learnt nothing then - I bet IG are rubbing their hands in glee

 

[Hoggums]

Agreed - if you trade in such a way that one bad trade wipes out your account you will NEVER get rich.