Greece may exit the Euro ?

Reposting someone else's comment, apparently you cannot think for yourself. More ad hominem arguments, what a surprise!

the post made me laugh and I made mine, did I do something wrong? I hope I did not offend you, sorry if I did....... anyway the post was not just funny but extremely articulate in describing your character, don't you think? but I could be wrong...... I have the feeling he is reading you like an open book.....Maybe would be best for you to collect your cows and find a place that suits you best otherwise there is a chance he will turn you in a pork mincemeat pie, trust me. Anyway what ever you do, GL.
 
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Just heard on the wires the assertion that Fed wanted to raise rates but given the public requests and the Grexit issue they did not wish to add further volatility to the markets at a delicate period exasperating global issues.

They've glossed over dollar strength and international issues; Grexit and Asia, but they may have played well into disguising their real fears about a major slow down.

Yellen did state they were watching Grexit developments closely. :idea:

Lagarde due to come up with a new proposal for Greece from the Washington based IMF. ;)


Markets wobbling instead of spritely bouncing around after yesterday. Hmmm :rolleyes:
 
the us fed don't give a sh*t about any other nation or economy ...........

agree with you its just smoke and mirrors..........

N
 
the us fed don't give a sh*t about any other nation or economy ...........

agree with you its just smoke and mirrors..........

N


Yes agree, but I reckon the FED and ECB acting in unison. Public request from Lagarde no doubt staged and managed with agreement from Fed.

Remember Obama and dollar strength slip.

US, EU, Asia we are all in the same boat.

Then to lump it all on Greece just for 1.7bn financing deal is just as you say BS smoke and mirrors. Take attention away from all the other poohey goohey stuff.


All we need is a little correction a pull back and capitalism just simply can't handle slow downs.


We live in interesting times that's for sure. All good stuff. (y)
 
All we need is a little correction a pull back and capitalism just simply can't handle slow downs.

Like almost everything you write, this is an utterly idiotic comment that only exposes your absolute ignorance about economics. The only people who are impressed by what you write are those who know less than you do, which isn't very much. You've already conceded defeat in this thread. Why do you keep posting as if you know what the solutions are when you haven't even got the foggiest idea what the problems are? Give up will you!:rolleyes:
 
Mr Tsipras is in Moscow looking for a solution. The pauper country trying to get a handout from a battered economy.

NT isn't coming with any right wing plan but does throw mud at others as if he is the great economist.

Is a Grexit contagious ? Herr Wolfgang Schäuble thinks not. Firewalls are in place. Even the mighty Titanic sunk with a small hole.

Nigel Farage says Greece should stand up to the EU. Hah flowery words but...............

The Yanks are very quiet. Unusual you might say. Usually they jump in with both feet.
 
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Like almost everything you write, this is an utterly idiotic comment that only exposes your absolute ignorance about economics. The only people who are impressed by what you write are those who know less than you do, which isn't very much. You've already conceded defeat in this thread. Why do you keep posting as if you know what the solutions are when you haven't even got the foggiest idea what the problems are? Give up will you!:rolleyes:


NT you are so predictable. I put that line in for you. Honest :)

You should apply/consider SWOT to any system.

Capitalism tends to over-dramatise slow downs. You may sell it as a feature but on the contrary it is a weakness. (n)


:idea:
 
Mr Tsipras is in Moscow looking for a solution. The pauper country trying to get a handout from a battered economy.

NT isn't coming with any right wing plan but does throw mud at others as if he is the great economist.

If you actually understood even a little bit about economics you would understand that contrary to Atilla being your ally in championing the cause for the working class, he is your enemy. He advocates all the things that benefit the elite more than any other class, whereas I advocate the very things that would reduce the disparity between the rich and the poor. That's the ironic thing about your criticism of me.

You don't have to take my word, the headlines speak for themselves...record art prices, record luxury house prices, record stock prices...all the things which are mostly the preserve of the elite are at record prices attributable directly to the policies Atilla advocates; Low interest rates and expansionary monetary policy.

Of course I don't expect you to even digest what I've written, so I will expect your standard Pavlovian response.

As for Greece...how about you get your own house in order first...you think the U.K is any better? :rolleyes:
 
Mr Tsipras is in Moscow looking for a solution. The pauper country trying to get a handout from a battered economy.

NT isn't coming with any right wing plan but does throw mud at others as if he is the great economist.

Is a Grexit contagious ? Herr Scnauble thinks not. Firewalls are in place. Even the mighty Titanic sunk with a small hole.

Nigel Farage says Greece should stand up to the EU. Hah flowery words but...............

The Yanks are very quiet. Unusual you might say. Usually they jump in with both feet.


Lagarde of IMF and French doing to the running in the background. Shssssh... :whistling
 
If you actually understood even a little bit about economics you would understand that contrary to Atilla being your ally in championing the cause for the working class, he is your enemy. He advocates all the things that benefit the elite more than any other class, whereas I advocate the very things that would reduce the disparity between the rich and the poor. That's the ironic thing about your criticism of me.

You don't have to take my word, the headlines speak for themselves...record art prices, record luxury house prices, record stock prices...all the things which are mostly the preserve of the elite are at record prices attributable directly to the policies Atilla advocates; Low interest rates and expansionary monetary policy.

Of course I don't expect you to even digest what I've written, so I will expect your standard Pavlovian response.

As for Greece...how about you get your own house in order first...you think the U.K is any better? :rolleyes:

Well yes that was at the height of the crises yes. It was the policy pursued right?

Now I think rate rises are in order and if anything we are leaving it tad late.

However, if inflation is a target objective along with employment then we can't object can we?


I'm an economist. I simply read analyse and put my point forward.


I also support much of what you preach but I'm a pragmatic realist and have learnt to play in the system.

How you can say what you say baffles me. :eek:

Is it because I'm happy to pay tax and have a social conscience? :)


I bet I'm not even half as rich as you either. All the best my friend (y)
 
Capitalism tends to over-dramatise slow downs. You may sell it as a feature but on the contrary it is a weakness. (n)


:idea:

You put in a nonsensical line about capitalism "for me", then you follow it up with an even dumber line about capitalism...was that for me as well?

I knew, back when we were having the debate in the Keynes thread, that you would surreptitiously start referring to this economy as being 'Capitalist' even though nothing has changed in the intervening years when you asserted Socialism bailed out Capitalism. Those idiotic policies, that you said will work, are still in place. Now you have the audacity to say that anything that occurs from here on is a defect of Capitalism!? :rolleyes:
 
You put in a nonsensical line about capitalism "for me", then you follow it up with an even dumber line about capitalism...was that for me as well?

I knew, back when we were having the debate in the Keynes thread, that you would surreptitiously start referring to this economy as being 'Capitalist' even though nothing has changed in the intervening years when you asserted Socialism bailed out capitalism. Those idiotic policies, that you said will work, are still in place. Now you have the audacity to say that anything that occurs is a defect of capitalism!? :rolleyes:

Fair point. I accept.

Much of our demise is to do with politicians over spending on social projects without paying for it in tax revenue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always imagine your perception of capitalism as the Victorian era with children working in mine shafts and match stick factories with no regulation at all.

Is there any country or period where your vision of capitalism is applied or demonstrated?
 
Is it because I'm happy to pay tax and have a social conscience? :)

No. It's because of your tyrannical view that others should be forced to do what makes you happy.

I bet I'm not even half as rich as you either. All the best my friend (y)

I'm not your friend, please dispense with your insufferable platitudes, they are so hypocritical.
 
No. It's because of your tyrannical view that others should be forced to do what makes you happy.

I have a vote and I use it. You've started name calling again. I'm not a tyrant. On the contrary I believe in democracy, freedom of speech, mind and action very much.

I'm not your friend, please dispense with your insufferable platitudes, they are so hypocritical.

I do read your posts and have learnt from you which I would like to thank you for.


I'll stop referring to you as a friend if it upsets you. That's fine with me.


(y)
 
Mr Tsipras, the door is widely open, please don't do anything stupid. like jumping out through the widow, there might be an accident!:whistle:yawn:
 
Mr Tsipras, the door is widely open, please don't do anything stupid. like jumping out through the widow, there might be an accident!:whistle:yawn:

I think Lagarde and Merkel holding hands are more likely to jump first than Tsipras and Yannis :LOL:
 
A Greek Suicide?
•provocative rejection of what he described as the “absurd” bailout offer by Greece’s creditors, no longer poses a serious threat to the rest of Europe. The bad news is that Tsipras does not seem to understand this.

To judge by Tsipras’s belligerence, he firmly believes that Europe needs Greece as desperately as Greece needs Europe. This is the true “absurdity” in the present negotiations, and Tsipras’ misapprehension of his bargaining power now risks catastrophe for his country, humiliation for his Syriza party, or both.
The most likely outcome is that Tsipras will eat his words and submit to the conditions set by the “troika” (the European Commission, European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund) before the end of June. If not, the ECB will stop supporting the Greek banking system, and the government will run out of money to service foreign debts and, more dramatically, to pay Greek citizens their pensions and wages. Cut off from all external finance, Greece will become an economic pariah – the Argentina of Europe – and public pressure will presumably oust Syriza from power.

This outcome is all the more tragic, given that the economic analysis underlying Syriza’s demand for an easing of austerity was broadly right. Instead of seeking a face-saving compromise on softening the troika program, Tsipras wasted six months on symbolic battles over economically irrelevant issues such as labor laws, privatizations, even the name of the troika.

This provocative behavior lost Greece all potential allies in France and Italy. Worse still, the time wasted on political grandstanding destroyed the primary budget surplus, which was Tsipras’s trump card in the early negotiations.

Now Tsipras thinks he holds another trump card: Europe’s fear of a Greek default. But this is a delusion promoted by his finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis. A professor of game theory, Varoufakis recently boasted to the New York Times that “little Greece, in order to survive, [could] bring down the financial world,” and that his media image “as an irrational fool… is doing my work for me” by frightening other EU finance ministers.

Apparently, Varoufakis believes that his “sophisticated grasp of game theory” gives Greece a crucial advantage in “the complicated dynamics” of the negotiations. In fact, the game being played out in Europe is less like chess than like tic-tac-toe, where a draw is the normal outcome, but a wrong move means certain defeat.

The rules of this game are much simpler than Varoufakis expected because of a momentous event that occurred in the same week as the Greek election. On January 22, the ECB took decisive action to protect the eurozone from a possible Greek default. By announcing a huge program of bond purchases, much bigger relative to the eurozone bond market than the quantitative easing implemented in the United States, Britain, or Japan, ECB President Mario Draghi erected the impenetrable firewall that had long been needed to protect the monetary Union from a Lehman-style financial meltdown.

The ECB’s newfound ability to print money, essentially without limit, to support both banks and governments has reduced Greek contagion to insignificance. That represents a profound change in Europe’s financial environment, which Greek politicians, along with many economic analysts, still fail to understand.

Before the ECB’s decision, contagion from Greece was a genuine threat. If the Greek government defaulted or tried to abandon the euro, Greece’s banks would collapse, and Greeks who failed to get their money out of the country would lose their savings, as occurred in Cyprus in 2013. When savers in other indebted euro countries such as Portugal and Spain observed this, they would fear similar losses and move their money to banks in Germany or Austria, as well as sell their holdings of Portuguese or Spanish government bonds.

As a result, the debtor countries’ bond prices would collapse, interest rates would soar, and banks would be threatened with collapse. If the contagion from Greece intensified, the next-weakest country, probably Portugal, would find itself unable to support its banking system or pay its debts. In extremis, it would abandon the euro, following the Greek example.

Before January, this sequence of events was quite likely, but the ECB’s bond-buying program put a firebreak at each point of the contagion process. If holders of Portuguese bonds are alarmed by a future Greek default, the ECB will simply increase its bond buying; with no limit to its buying power, it will easily overwhelm any selling pressure.

If savers in Portuguese banks start moving their money to Germany, the ECB will recycle these euros back to Portugal through interbank deposits. Again, there is no limit to how much money the ECB can recycle, provided Portuguese banks remain solvent – which they will, so long as the ECB continues to buy Portuguese government bonds.

In short, the ECB bond-buying program has transformed the ECB from a passive observer of the euro crisis, paralyzed by the outdated legalistic constraints of the Maastricht Treaty, into a proper lender of last resort. With powers to monetize government debts similar to those exercised by the US Federal Reserve, the Bank of Japan, and the Bank of England, the ECB can now guarantee the eurozone against financial contagion.

Unfortunately for Greece, this has been lost on the Tsipras government. Greek politicians who still see the threat of financial contagion as their trump card should note the coincidence of the Greek election and the ECB’s bond-buying program and draw the obvious conclusion. The ECB’s new policy was designed to protect the euro from the consequences of a Greek exit or default.

The latest Greek negotiating strategy is to demand a ransom to desist threatening suicide. Such blackmail might work for a suicide bomber. But Greece is just holding a gun to its own head – and Europe does not need to care very much if it pulls the trigger.
 
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I feel sorry for many suffering Greeks, though that suffering by large is self inflicted by their own government and irrational expectations.
Take for example the issue of retirement, it sounds really great to be able to retire at 50, but to ask Germans and others to pay for it, well, that is another matter.
Even Merkel cannot sell that deal to the over 65 years old hard working Gemans:confused::eek:
Hardly surprising!:(
 
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