Just wondering if the dentist you speak of was indeed a dentist
interesting I remember reading the NakedTrader book's "emails from readers" that has an example of a dentist who traded between appointments!!
interesting I remember reading the NakedTrader book's "emails from readers" that has an example of a dentist who traded between appointments!!
new_trader
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"allegedly" new_trader, "allegedly"
Focus & full attention are necessary to achieve greatness in any pursuit
Incidentally, my uncle is a dentist (& a very good one at that based on his Sydney mansion)
I doubt he would pack in his job after several "alleged" successful evenings trading the stocks.
Just wondering if the dentist you speak of was indeed a dentist
I suspect he may have actually worked as a dental nurse before entering the lucrative field of Systems sales
http://www.trade2win.com/section/articles/764-interview-stock-trader-richard-joyson-mr-charts
spreader_legger
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Well .... so long as he enjoys it, that's the main thing! :cheesy:
Interesting how he's gained such an iconic status in TW2 .... perhaps the next Market Wizard in the making?
Interesting how he's gained such an iconic status in TW2 .... perhaps the next Market Wizard in the making?
i've put in 2000 hours + more i reckon, that's not including forum time though, can you honestly say that pissing about on forums is useful and part of 'screentime'?
glyder
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BS there is truth in this but it is not impossible to succeed from part time to full time.
People work full time and study law, engineering, medicine, and whatever else All require hundreds or thousands of hours of study.and they make it. Of course there is a drop out rate.
Trading is relatively simple compared to these disciplines. The main problem is it attracts people after easy money. So there are even fewer stickers.
Anyone with the ability to actually stick at it has a chance to make it from part time study (not saying it will be easy ordone without pain) and really if you are trading the daily charts there is no need to be at the computer all the time once you have learnt the trade. Occasional checks and an alert system wil leave you free to work or whatever else.... As I see it at that point trading is neither full time nor part time, its not even about trading, its about making a decision and then delegating the work to the markets. Full time or part time will no longer matter.
new_trader
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Time & effort is necessary to succeed in any endeavour. The subject of the thread and the question most people are asking, and if not, the question I am asking is: What were you doing four+ years ago?
robster970
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I buy that reason especially for day trading. I've just reconciled myself to the fact that my screen-time is limited to at best 4hrs per day and it will just take me longer for light to get brighter. I think you have to go through the process and there is no other route. Cognitive skills can only be developed by doing, analysing, reflecting and feeding back.
Part time, if it's not p1ssing around just means it is harder and takes longer to develop all weather skills. Full time means focus. Part-time, you run the risk of missing the point. I'll let you know when I finally get to the other side.
new_trader
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Your screen time is not limited to just 4 hrs per day. You can buy historical tick data and study the markets on weekends. Most trading applications have a record function so that you record and replay a whole day. Where there's a will, there's a way.
robster970
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To be fair NT, I have a screen on all the time, even at 'work'. I am in a luxurious position where my boss/his boss have no problem with me doing this. Providing I do my job, they are fine. I just actively trade about 4hrs in the day in the US afternoon session, outside of UK working hours.
I understand just how powerful the subconcious is in absorbing and assimilating information. I also see value in how it forms rather than just 'flat' charts (i.e. knowing the news that's going on at the time, knowing how other markets are behaving). I need to feel engaged in a holistic sense - I struggle with just replaying things back - it's like I need context.
I think this is the kind of focus that is easier to gain when participating full-time rather than part-time.
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isatrader
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From what I’ve read on these forums it seems very hard to get a trading job with a firm without a degree in something. So at your age, if you are serious about trading for a living and want to make good money from it then you should be looking at getting a degree in something useful and continuing to refine your skills as a trader in the mean time IMO. That way when your finished your degree you can decide to apply to companies for a trading job or trade your own account and have a degree to fall back on as well if you find you need to get a normal job.
I love the way that these threads deteriorate into "if you don't do it my way then you will NEVER be a profitable trader and you are just taking a punt on the markets". Part time trading is perfectly possible but you just need to understand what game you are playing. I trade what most people would call a large account and I make consistently decent money year on year. I earn a fair bit more from my trading than most employees do, BUT I still chose to have a job. I happen to enjoy my work which takes me all over the World. I also trade the US markets which open in the evening in my current time zone. I need to spend one hour watching the open, set my orders and see the next day whether I have any positions filled. From then it is just a matter of setting my stops and sell orders which takes me 20 minutes each day for my existing positions. I swing trade stocks from daily charts but manage entries based on intraday charts.
good to hear
DionysusToast
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Part time or full time doesn't matter in my opinion. There's plenty of futures traders that are done in the morning - so that's roughly 3 hours a day. You could combine this with a day job if the time zones are friendly. Or you could trade the close.
What does matter is that you take it seriously and treat it like a business. If you expect to just switch on the screen and make money as if it's a slot machine - you will be dissapointed.
I am about to start a business. It will be internet based and it will be part time. I am having to spend a fair amount of $$$ to ensure that it will only be part time. I'm having to get things lined up to that end. This means predicting customer queries before they occur and having them documented. It means ensuring the procurement process is automated. It does not mean being in reactive mode and putting out fires all the time - that's would make it a full time job.
Trading isn't much different. I sit down at about 8pm EST. I have my pre-market routine on my wall which is a review of where we have been, what prior days looked like, review of news, setting levels. Once done, I go back to the kids. I'll come back about 9:20 EST to watch the build up to the open and the open itself. Once it opens, I use the open to make my final decisions on what I think is likely on the day but will play whatever unfolds. I'm done by 11:45 EST usually, at which time any trades are in my journal. Each trade has a rating A-F, not about how much $$$ was made but about how well I executed my plan.
Next week, I will have a week off the day job and I will be studying the daily charts/tape for the whole of 2010. What I am looking for is my set ups as well as anything else that stands out. This is mostly to give me a bit of confidence in terms of the probability of the trades I take (which is mostly fading).
Now - in terms of having a job - it depends where you are in life. People have car payments, mortgages, bills to pay. Just quitting isn't feasible unless you are in a menial job. In my own position, I have a well paid job with a golden parachute. I run a company but it's a well oiled machine and really I don't have to do much there, it's easy, it's stress-free. The golden parachute prevents me from quitting for now because I'd like that money in my account before I go full time.
Of course if you are 21 years old, living with mom & dad with no commitments or dependants, then you don't have much to lose. For the rest of us - there needs to be a transition.
What does matter is that you take it seriously and treat it like a business. If you expect to just switch on the screen and make money as if it's a slot machine - you will be dissapointed.
I am about to start a business. It will be internet based and it will be part time. I am having to spend a fair amount of $$$ to ensure that it will only be part time. I'm having to get things lined up to that end. This means predicting customer queries before they occur and having them documented. It means ensuring the procurement process is automated. It does not mean being in reactive mode and putting out fires all the time - that's would make it a full time job.
Trading isn't much different. I sit down at about 8pm EST. I have my pre-market routine on my wall which is a review of where we have been, what prior days looked like, review of news, setting levels. Once done, I go back to the kids. I'll come back about 9:20 EST to watch the build up to the open and the open itself. Once it opens, I use the open to make my final decisions on what I think is likely on the day but will play whatever unfolds. I'm done by 11:45 EST usually, at which time any trades are in my journal. Each trade has a rating A-F, not about how much $$$ was made but about how well I executed my plan.
Next week, I will have a week off the day job and I will be studying the daily charts/tape for the whole of 2010. What I am looking for is my set ups as well as anything else that stands out. This is mostly to give me a bit of confidence in terms of the probability of the trades I take (which is mostly fading).
Now - in terms of having a job - it depends where you are in life. People have car payments, mortgages, bills to pay. Just quitting isn't feasible unless you are in a menial job. In my own position, I have a well paid job with a golden parachute. I run a company but it's a well oiled machine and really I don't have to do much there, it's easy, it's stress-free. The golden parachute prevents me from quitting for now because I'd like that money in my account before I go full time.
Of course if you are 21 years old, living with mom & dad with no commitments or dependants, then you don't have much to lose. For the rest of us - there needs to be a transition.
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B
Black Swan
The contribution from members *supporting* part time trading comes from either; guys that have very accomodating bosses, or are admitting taking the pi55 out of their work and or boss, or are self employed in other capacities..is there a pattern there?
DionysusToast
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:whistling :whistling :whistling
yeh but if you swing off h4/daily then a quick flick at a chart every 4 hours ccan't be too hard, could smuggle in an iphone nowadays too...
glyder
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But why do you think that? Many people waste their employers time without trading at all, they sit on the net, take fag breaks, go awol during work hours and take sick days when they shouldn't. And similarlyemployers waste employees time too.
But why on earth would any of it matter? Its their business.
I work and trade, trading dailies takes place late evenings / early mornings some degree of trade management during the day that really doesn't impact on work. I'm lucky in that I can check trades in work if I want. But really the only difference irt would make if I couldn't would be to my nerves.
Working and trading can definitely be done I'd venture to say that there are many more doing this than you imagine.
- my trading fits in with work without any difficulty. Sitting by a screen was never what I imagined trading would be. I wouldn't want to do that.
I see full time/ part time as maybe just different methods of managing trades.
BSD
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I think what Swan mainly means isn't necessarily part time or not...
but complete and total commitment to getting it to work. Am I getting that right BS ?
If you have a good salary etc will you really be disciplined enough to always do what needs to be done, or will you get negligent because you don't really need the money.
It's like someone who inherits money, for them it's all a game until the money runs out right.
I wouldn't say it's impossible, but you definitely need total commitment and discipline.
In a way trading with a safety belt (salary, inheritance etc) is a bit like the difference between paper trading or going live, the psychological pressure is different, and psychology is imo 90% of trading success.
I wouldn't say starting out part time is impossible, but it can definitely only work if you take it just as seriously as if you were trading for a living, and most won't be able to generate that discipline without outside pressure like a boss telling them what to do or inside pressure like having to pay bills from your trading.
After all most don't have the discpline either to keep their weight down as long as there's no pressing problems cropping up like diabetes etc.
Even then most won't develop the needed discipline to do what needs to be done but keep eating sugar etc, and similarly that's why imo it's hard to take trading seriously as long as you're comfortable financially independent of trading.
Not impossible, but impossible without taking it 100% as seriously as if your bills had to be payed out of your trading account even if you still have a job etc, I think that's what it's all about.
but complete and total commitment to getting it to work. Am I getting that right BS ?
If you have a good salary etc will you really be disciplined enough to always do what needs to be done, or will you get negligent because you don't really need the money.
It's like someone who inherits money, for them it's all a game until the money runs out right.
I wouldn't say it's impossible, but you definitely need total commitment and discipline.
In a way trading with a safety belt (salary, inheritance etc) is a bit like the difference between paper trading or going live, the psychological pressure is different, and psychology is imo 90% of trading success.
I wouldn't say starting out part time is impossible, but it can definitely only work if you take it just as seriously as if you were trading for a living, and most won't be able to generate that discipline without outside pressure like a boss telling them what to do or inside pressure like having to pay bills from your trading.
After all most don't have the discpline either to keep their weight down as long as there's no pressing problems cropping up like diabetes etc.
Even then most won't develop the needed discipline to do what needs to be done but keep eating sugar etc, and similarly that's why imo it's hard to take trading seriously as long as you're comfortable financially independent of trading.
Not impossible, but impossible without taking it 100% as seriously as if your bills had to be payed out of your trading account even if you still have a job etc, I think that's what it's all about.
meanreversion
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BSD
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