For or Against Brexit 2017?

[Jack o'Clubs]

This is starting to get way off topic, but here's a thought: a degree of income or wealth redistribution is the price we pay to live safely, with social cohesion. Whenever I get home from one of the edgier 'emerging markets' to which I often travel with work, and where extremes of wealth and poverty seem to form the sort of society hhiusa claims he wants to live in, the more content I am to pay what might seem confiscatory levels of tax to reside somewhere with social safety nets, established healthcare, uncorrupt public servants and frankly, not to have to even think about things like me or my family being kidnapped, needing bullet proof glass in the car, etc. What's the point in having the money to afford a gold Rolex if you can't wear it in the street for fear of someone taking a meat cleaver to your arm?

 

[hhiusa]

Whenever I get home from one of the edgier 'emerging markets' to which I often travel with work, and where extremes of wealth and poverty seem to form the sort of society hhiusa claims he wants to live in, the more content I am to pay what might seem confiscatory levels of tax to reside somewhere with social safety nets, established healthcare, uncorrupt public servants and frankly, not to have to even think about things like me or my family being kidnapped, needing bullet proof glass in the car, etc. What's the point in having the money to afford a gold Rolex if you can't wear it in the street for fear of someone taking a meat cleaver to your arm?

This couldn't be more of a ramble if you tried, not to mention run-on sentence. Google crime in Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, La Jolla, Malibu, Carmel and look at the demographics of the cities, the average income and property values. After that, google detroit, los angeles, Las Vegas and again, look at the demographics of the areas, incomes and average property values. A very distinct, irrebuttable pattern emerges.

This concept can be applied from city-level to country-level mutatis mutandis. This also why, coming full circle to the "Brexit", Britain's independence will be good for British entrepreneurs and bad for immigrant and foreign British nationals.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

This couldn't be more of a ramble if you tried, not to mention run-on sentence. Google crime in Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, La Jolla, Malibu, Carmel and look at the demographics of the cities, the average income and property values. After that, google detroit, los angeles, Las Vegas and again, look at the demographics of the areas, incomes and average property values. A very distinct, irrebuttable pattern emerges.

This concept can be applied from city-level to country-level mutatis mutandis. This also why, coming full circle to the "Brexit", Britain's independence will be good for British entrepreneurs and bad for immigrant and foreign British nationals.

Woooshhh! What's that sound? Irony flying over the head of an American. Thanks for living up to the stereotype. Are you the same hhiusa who somewhere else wrote that their favourite places were (from memory) Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Hamburg. Brilliant, all places governed by left-leaning social democracies who believe in redistribution to create the sort of peaceful integrated societies you don't think work. Or rather, you want to live in them, but don't want to pay for them.

 

[counter_violent]

Woooshhh! What's that sound? Irony flying over the head of an American. Thanks for living up to the stereotype. Are you the same hhiusa who somewhere else wrote that their favourite places were (from memory) Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Hamburg. Brilliant, all places governed by left-leaning social democracies who believe in redistribution to create the sort of peaceful integrated societies you don't think work. Or rather, you want to live in them, but don't want to pay for them.

Americans think guns are a great idea.
What's the average IQ of Americans ?

We haven't had this one for a while !

 

[hhiusa]

Ramblings of the Disenfranchised Labour Partiers

Woooshhh! What's that sound? Irony flying over the head of an American. Thanks for living up to the stereotype. Are you the same hhiusa who somewhere else wrote that their favourite places were (from memory) Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Hamburg. Brilliant, all places governed by left-leaning social democracies who believe in redistribution to create the sort of peaceful integrated societies you don't think work. Or rather, you want to live in them, but don't want to pay for them.

There are different rules for American Corporations in Sweden than there are for the Swedish and EU residents. In general, I think the Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are an extremely advanced society. They have the lowest crime in the world and the lowest recitivism rate.

Sweden and Denmark have great tax incentives for Americans as most countries want American entrepreneurials dollars.

See KMPG Swedish Taxation For American Businesses.
http://www.icaew.com/en/library/subject-gateways/tax/tax-by-country/sweden
http://www.state.gov/e/eb/rls/othr/ics/2013/204739.htm

Until the mid‑1980s, Sweden's approach to direct investment from abroad was quite restrictive and governed by a complex system of laws and regulations. Sweden’s entry into the European Union (EU) in 1995 has greatly improved the investment climate and attracted foreign investors to the country. The number of foreign subsidiaries in Sweden increased sharply from the mid 1990s, from just over 3,000 to over 10,000 ten years later. Despite substantial FDI inflows, the stock of Swedish assets held abroad still exceeds the stock of foreign assets in Sweden. In 2011, the stock of foreign direct investments in Sweden amounted to 63 percent of GDP.

Taxes

Sweden’s taxation structure is straightforward and corporate tax levels are low. As of 2013 Sweden has a corporate tax of 22 percent in nominal terms, lowered from 26.3 percent. The effective rate can be even lower as companies have the option of making deductible annual appropriations to a tax allocation reserve of up to 25 percent of their pretax profit for the year. Companies can make pre-tax allocations to untaxed reserves, which are subject to tax only when utilized. Certain amounts of untaxed reserves may be used to cover losses.

Due to tax exemptions on capital gains and dividends, as well as other competitive tax rules such as low effective corporate tax rates, deductible interest costs for tax purposes, no withholding tax on interest, no stamp duty or capital duties on share capital (This means no social security tax if you have no taxable income), and an extensive double tax treaty network, Sweden is among Europe’s most favorable jurisdictions for holding companies. Unlisted shares are always tax-exempt, meaning no qualification time or minimum holding of votes or capital. Listed shares are exempt if the holding represents at least 10 percent of the voting rights (or is contingent on the holder’s business) and the shares are held for at least one year.

Personal income taxes are among the highest in the world (So Swedish citizens pay higher taxes than Swedish Americans and Americans in Sweden). Since public finances have improved due to extensive consolidation packages to reduce deficits, the government has been able to reduce the tax pressure as a percentage of GDP. Currently, it is below 50 percent for the first time in decades. One particular focus has been tax reductions to encourage employers to hire the long-term unemployed. The government introduced additional cuts for personal income taxes in 2008, followed by additional cuts in January 2009 and 2010. Expectations are that the taxes will stay at this level during the year and will not increase or decrease because of the financial instability. In 2011 the breaking point for state taxes increased. It is now only at an income over SEK 32,967 (approx. US$4900) per month that a state income tax of 20 percent will be levied. When earnings exceed SEK 46,741 (approx. US$6900) per month, an additional 5 percent state tax is applied.

One tax reform to help bring foreign experts to Sweden is a reduction of key foreign personnel’s income tax. Under the reform, only 75 percent of the person’s income is taxable for the first three years of employment in Sweden. Likewise, their employers pay social security contributions on only 75 percent of the taxable salary. This tax relief applies to all salaries and benefits in kind, as well as stock options and other compensations offered by the employer. This applies to foreign key personnel such as executives, researchers, and experts employed by a Swedish company. The tax relief is not applicable to individuals assigned to Sweden by a foreign company that has no operations in Sweden.

This section is the most important of all!
Dividends paid by foreign subsidiaries in Sweden to their parent company are not subject to Swedish taxation. Dividends distributed to other foreign shareholders are subject to a 30 percent withholding tax under domestic law, unless dividends are exempt or taxed at a lower rate under a tax treaty. Tax liability may also be eliminated under the EC Parent Subsidiary Directive. Profits of a Swedish branch of a foreign company may be remitted abroad without being subject to any other tax than the regular corporate income tax. Sweden has no foreign exchange controls or restrictions.

The Swedish system of allowing A and B preferred stock has been identified by some, both in and outside of the EU, as an obstacle to takeover efforts of Swedish companies and the free flow of capital. A and B stocks differ from common preferred stocks in that owners of A stocks have a greater number of votes than owners of B stocks. Both A and B stocks have the same right to dividends.

Incentives: The Swedish government offers certain incentives to set up a business in targeted depressed areas. Loans are available on favorable terms from the Swedish Agency for Economic and Regional Growth (Tillvaxtverket) and from regional development funds. A range of regional support programs, including location and employment grants, low rent industrial parks, and economic free zones are also available. Regional development support is concentrated in the lightly populated northern two-thirds of the country. There are also several European funds that offer subsidies for starting enterprises and a range of incentives to research and development programs provided by the Swedish Government.

Stock options: There is no exit taxation and no specific rules regarding taxation of stock options received before a move to Sweden. Instead, cases of double taxation are solved by applying tax treaties and cover not only moves within the EU but all countries, including the United States.:clap:

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

There are different rules for American Corporations in Sweden than there are for the Swedish and EU residents. In general, I think the Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are an extremely advanced society. They have the lowest crime in the world and the lowest recitivism rate.

Blah blah blah yawn yawn cut paste tedious and irrelevant tax documents blah blah

You do realise you've made my point for me perfectly? You'd like to live somewhere with the consequences of redistributive centre left political policies, as they produce civilised and integrated communities, as long as some other bugger pays for them. An interesting moral position. Surely you'd rather live somewhere more wholeheartedly Randian, like, I dunno, Mogadishu.

 

[hhiusa]

Long Live Ayn Rand and Milton

You do realise you've made my point for me perfectly? You'd like to live somewhere with the consequences of redistributive centre left political policies, as they produce civilised and integrated communities, as long as some other bugger pays for them. An interesting moral position. Surely you'd rather live somewhere more wholeheartedly Randian, like, I dunno, Mogadishu.

You do realise you haven't made a point at all. blah blah is not an answer.

First, I don't use those benefits at all as I am not a Swedish citizen and they for Swedes only.

Second If left-leaning socialism was the answer why are the southern European countries in such terrible shape. It's because Scandinavians more educated and more advanced than the rest and south of Europe. Scandinavian are homogeneous and have less diversity than the rest of Europe. This explains the low crime.

 

[Atilla]

You do realise you haven't made a point at all. blah blah is not an answer.

First, I don't use those benefits at all as I am not a Swedish citizen and they for Swedes only.

Second If left-leaning socialism was the answer why are the southern European countries in such terrible shape. It's because Scandinavians more educated and more advanced than the rest and south of Europe. Scandinavian are homogeneous and have less diversity than the rest of Europe. This explains the low crime.

I think an absolute and clear point has been made indeed. Very specifically so :!:

Find it difficult to comprehend how you can not get it. Dare I say your funny! Not! That is in jest so I'll retract it. :cheesy:


I'll try and find the recent happiness of countries study but, one can conclude countries who pay higher taxes and have more comprehensive social support policies are happier ones to live in.

We can also see this in terms of migration foot prints as random people opt for similar choice.

They are some of the countries which you said also liked.


Is this not the case?

 

[hhiusa]

I think an absolute and clear point has been made indeed. Very specifically so :!:

Find it difficult to comprehend how you can not get it. Dare I say your funny! Not! That is in jest so I'll retract it. :cheesy:


I'll try and find the recent happiness of countries study but, one can conclude countries who pay higher taxes and have more comprehensive social support policies are happier ones to live in.

We can also see this in terms of migration foot prints as random people opt for similar choice.

They are some of the countries which you said also liked.


Is this not the case?

I will say it again since you didn't seem to read my post left-leaning socialism is not the reason why Scandinavia so successful. if this were the case Portugal and Greece and Spain and all these other countries should be so much more successful than they are.

what I will say about the Scandinavians is that they just seem to be a better culture than the rest of Europe. The culture of the people determines the rule of law that they want to govern themselves by.

additionally Scandinavian countries actually have a higher income disparity than even the US. Look up GINI coefficients.

thirdly Americans like guns because they use them to vanquish the redcoats and have a Boston tea party

 

[Atilla]

I will say it again since you didn't seem to read my post left-leaning socialism is not the reason why Scandinavia so successful. if this were the case Portugal and Greece and Spain and all these other countries should be so much more successful than they are.

what I will say about the Scandinavians is that they just seem to be a better culture than the rest of Europe. The culture of the people determines the rule of law that they want to govern themselves by.

additionally Scandinavian countries actually have a higher income disparity than even the US. Look up GINI coefficients.

thirdly Americans like guns because they use them to vanquish the redcoats and have a Boston tea party

Culture has nothing to do with it. Humanity is the same all over the world. It is a dog eat dog world when it comes down to survival.

It's the system and equitable social distribution of the taxation system to one that's based on need.

PIGS are successful too. They just messed up on the taxation and spent a little more like the rest of the globe.

You are very selective and narrow minded in your view of what is good culture and what is success. Prejudiced in favour of blue eyed blondies perhaps. Lets not beat about the bush.

 

[hhiusa]

Culture has nothing to do with it. Humanity is the same all over the world. It is a dog eat dog world when it comes down to survival.

Culture has everything to do with it and people are not the same all over the world or else why would one go anywhere? All races are completely different which started from culture due to kin altruism because people of like mindedness got it together thousands of years ago and went to geographically different areas thus creating different races. What do you think creates different eye color and and hair color and skin colour, pixie dust?

It's the system and equitable social distribution of the taxation system to one that's based on need.

You are very selective in narrow minded in your view of what is good culture and what is success. Prejudiced in favour of blue eyed blondies perhaps. Lets not beat about the bush.

Being selective and narrowminded are not synonymous. I find blue eyes and blond hair very attractive because they are recessive features not dominant features. They are more pure in my eyes because once you mix recessive and dominant traits, the dominant feature takes over thus causing the recessive gene to recede or be knocked out of the gene pool.

Why do you care if I like blue eyes and blond hair so much if you like different features more power to those who like that. It's less people vying for what I want.

 

[Atilla]

Culture has everything to do with it and people are not the same all over the world or else why would one go anywhere? All races are completely different which started from culture due to

Being selective and narrowminded are not synonymous. I find blue eyes and blond hair very attractive because they are recessive features not dominant features. They are more pure in my eyes because once you mix recessive and dominant traits, the dominant feature takes over thus causing the recessive gene to recede or be knocked out of the gene pool.

Why do you care if I like blue eyes and blond hair so much if you like different features more power to those who like that. It's less people vying for what I want.

Culture is the same dude you should read more. Different people have different cultures yes but if you look at the nature of that culture is the same.

African's sacrifice chickens, muslims sacrifice goats, the Aztec's sacrificed their own kind. Abraham supposedly attempted to sacrifice his own sons too but heard voices in his head and sacrificed a ram instead. To top it all off the white man believes god then subsequently sacrificed his own son to teach us a very important lesson.

I don't believe all this god larky, but I much prefer African's sacrificing chickens to all the rest.

Is this not culture. Perhaps different culture by different people but can you not see it is the same culture and humanity is pretty much the same all over? I'll sacrifice something small now so I can get something bigger and better later.

I would kindly ask you to reflect sincerely.


Lent v Ramadan or Iranians whipping them selves for their Ashura festival or Opus Dei practicing self admonishing it's all the same.

Once again different people, different practice but let's face it pretty much the same sort of culture is it not?


Humans have the same instincts as animals about their territory.

Humans mark it with flags and whilst animals urinate using scent.

What's the difference. Each will defend territory too killing anything that tries to encroach on that space.



The white man killed off the Red Indians and the Aboriginies whom lived happily before the so called superior culture arrived. They were labelled savages by another race/species/culture. What ever.

In the Christian plains of America they taught little children the black man was created to serve the white man. Culture is dynamic and changes. The brain is like a sponge too. It can be taught any BS and absorb it as if it was true.

You think Northern Europeans somehow superior in culture to the Southern ones. Ok!

Just like in the UK we Southerners think it's grim up North. It's just healthy banter but never the less same/different culture.

In Italy, they think Southerners are lazy and the North does all the work.

One could say humans are like dogs. You may call them races but they are simply breeds. One can in theory get infinite number of breeds as well as races. It's just life.

They called the huns barbarians but that's only because the Romans who could not understand their language said they were blabering - speaking in bar bar language and so the Barbarian came to be. Barbarians did not decimate villages if they disagreed unlike the Romans did. The Romans would kill 000s of villagers every man, woman and child to teach neighbouring tribes not to rise against them. The huns only took what they needed and usually villagers joined their ranks in order to win booty in battle.

Whilst the huns were called barbarians, the white man claiming colonies for the European Kingdoms were called victorious conquerers and were celebrated.

Humanity is the SAME all over the world. Culture, people, animals, behaviour, llife pretty much the same same same old ****.

You try and distinguish your superiority any way you want. Anders Behring Breivik is no different to wolves killing other wolves when their territory is invaded by another. Dog eat dog world.


Having said all that - I'm delighted to say some humans have evolved and we continue to do so. Hence, we pay our taxes. So all is not that bad.

 

[hhiusa]

Genetic variations responsible for race

Culture is the same dude you should read more. Different people have different cultures yes but if you look at the nature of that culture is the same.

Culture is not the same. People are genetically, mentally and culturally diverse.

POMC gene encodes a polypeptide hormone precursor that undergoes extensive, tissue-specific, post-translational processing via cleavage by subtilisin-like enzymes known as prohormone convertases. There are eight potential cleavage sites within the polypeptide precursor and, depending on tissue type and the available convertases, processing may yield as many as ten biologically active peptides involved in diverse cellular functions. The encoded protein is synthesized mainly in corticotroph cells of the anterior pituitary where four cleavage sites are used; adrenocorticotrophin, essential for normal steroidogenesis and the maintenance of normal adrenal weight, and lipotropin beta are the major end products. In other tissues, including the hypothalamus, placenta, and epithelium, all cleavage sites may be used, giving rise to peptides with roles in pain and energy homeostasis, melanocyte stimulation, and immune modulation. These include several distinct melanotropins, lipotropins, and endorphins that are contained within the adrenocorticotrophin and beta-lipotropin peptides. The antimicrobial melanotropin alpha peptide exhibits antibacterial and antifungal activity. Mutations in this gene have been associated with early onset obesity, adrenal insufficiency, and red hair pigmentation. Alternatively spliced transcript variants encoding the same protein have been described. [provided by RefSeq, Nov 2014]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/5443

 

[new_trader]

hypocrites & cretins

“People would be happier if they paid higher taxes”, said the spread better¹.


1. Financial spread betting is the tax-free way to take advantage of rising or falling markets.

 

[Pat494]

Gods were nvented by men like Moses for a very specific reason originally. And what was that ? To make a cohesive unit out of a rabble. To put in place rules of behaviour that elevated the group to be successful. The clergy enforced the rules that work and create jobs of power within the group. What they couldn't stand was dissent. Groups have coagulated since the beginning of human time. Some were more successful than others and took over militarily.

Now we try and form successful groups by agreement such as the EU. The collapse of the minor fringe groups like Greece are a big worry to the groups leaders but quite what will be done we will see in the next few months.

The friction between neighbouring groups is obvious and caused WW1 and WW2 The Ukraine is a good example of this friction between The Russian Federation of diverse smaller groups and the neighbouring EU.

The groups seem to be getting larger as they absorb smaller groups. China is forming it's own big group and is likely to be in conflict with it's neighbours, like Japan.

Whose philosophy ( cold war ) or military muscle will end up with the lot - again it is too early to tell.

 

[Atilla]

I will say it again since you didn't seem to read my post left-leaning socialism is not the reason why Scandinavia so successful. if this were the case Portugal and Greece and Spain and all these other countries should be so much more successful than they are.

what I will say about the Scandinavians is that they just seem to be a better culture than the rest of Europe. The culture of the people determines the rule of law that they want to govern themselves by.

additionally Scandinavian countries actually have a higher income disparity than even the US. Look up GINI coefficients.

thirdly Americans like guns because they use them to vanquish the redcoats and have a Boston tea party

Last post on this superior culture business.

Portugal and Spain once upon a time were great successful nations with colonies in Africa and Latin America. In comparisons Scandinavian countries back then weren't much on the map. I'm sure it's got to be something to do with the weather.

As for Greece, in it's hey day it was the greatest cradle of civilisation. It's culture was way way beyond the tribal ravages of people elsewhere.

So yes you are very selective and remarkably picky as to what you perceive as good culture and bad culture.


Finally, to highlight the point about different people who no doubt had no contact with each other chieftans in each case wore crowns.

So when you talk of superior culture, there is no such thing. Culture is effectively the ideas and customs and social behaviour of people or society collectively. So whilst one wears decorated head gear of feathers from the eagle, another chooses to wear head gear made of metal and stones.

More importantly, irrespective of what enzymes, number of bacteria in their mouths or level of acidity in their bowles, these two different sets of people display pretty much identical behaviour, hence culture having NEVER seen each other.



I will step back from from this line of the debate and continue on the threads main theme of EU membership.


It has been interesting reading your perspective and outlook on the subject.

Best regards

 

[Atilla]

“People would be happier if they paid higher taxes”, said the spread better¹.


1. Financial spread betting is the tax-free way to take advantage of rising or falling markets.

Hello old boy, good to hear from you again.


More importantly tell us what you think about UK in the EU. You in or out?

 

[new_trader]

Hello old boy, good to hear from you again.


More importantly tell us what you think about UK in the EU. You in or out?

Which one of them will result in limited Government, very low taxes & sound money?

 

[Atilla]

Which one of them will result in limited Government, very low taxes & sound money?

See where you are coming from and would like to see the same.

I'd like to have it all though and would ask where the greater opportunity and market place likely to be allowing me to sell my goods and services?

 

[hhiusa]

Taboos

If cultures are essentially all the same, I fairly certain Europeans are required to ingest the semen of their elders, which is thought to sustain growth and strength as they are for the Sambian in Papua New Guinea or how about for the Wodaabee who share wives. Last I checked bigamy was illegal in most of Europe, anyway.:innocent:. Additionally, why pay for a temporary marriage as they do in India.