For or Against Brexit 2017?

[Splitlink]

Slighty off topic over last 2 decades had some great holidays in Cannes ( prefer it to Nice - but property prices higher etc ) - but would agree with you Nice comes a lot higher on my list than in the villages between Tamworth and Birmingham - so don't plan to be around here in another 3 -5 yrs

Come on F! You,also, have Brighton and Southend. Winkles or fishcakes --Yum Yum!

 

[Pat494]

Nationalism is a false God imho as many have found to their cost. Sounds good in a smoke filled bar room but no good really. There are so many m0re people outside the castle walls than in, with the inevitable result.

 

[hhiusa]

Nationalism is a false God imho as many have found to their cost. Sounds good in a smoke filled bar room but no good really. There are so many m0re people outside the castle walls than in, with the inevitable result.

Is this something Europeans do - not say what they mean and speak in metaphors. Why not try saying what you mean?

And what is Imho?

"As many have found to their cost". Do you mean detriment and to the detriment of what?

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

P.S. I might consider retiring in Monte Carlo or maybe stay where I am at.

Monaco is horrible, are you sure? As a yank you don't even get the tax breaks unless you renounce citizenship, so what's the point. Antibes or St Jean Cap Ferrat much nicer if you like that area.

On topic: I seriously hope it's a 'no' vote: in order to sell in Europe UK firms would have to comply with all EU regulations and standards, yet we'd have no say in its running. Reform, yes, Brexit no.

 

[hhiusa]

Monaco is horrible, are you sure? As a yank you don't even get the tax breaks unless you renounce citizenship, so what's the point. Antibes or St Jean Cap Ferrat much nicer if you like that area.

On topic: I seriously hope it's a 'no' vote: in order to sell in Europe UK firms would have to comply with all EU regulations and standards, yet we'd have no say in its running. Reform, yes, Brexit no.

I love how you guys refer to us as across the pond are you "cross" about us making seven times more money than you guys do and secondly of course I'm sure I want to go to Monaco you can create a société anonyme for €150,000 as a subsidiary of the UScorporation and Wyoming has great privacy laws for the parent and dividends paid from a wholly-owned subsidiary corporation to a US Parent corporation receive a dividends received deduction of 100%. I would have the corporation in Monaco not necessarily for tax reasons but because if I have a SA there than I can do business there and that means trips there are deductible and all I have to do if I want money back into the US is issue a dividend from the Monegasque subsidiary to the US parent write it off file a tax return and there's no taxes now you have the money in the US free and clear. it will also be cheaper for me to do business inside being EU via Monaco with the subsidiary there than it would be doing it via the US.

additionally Monica has no crime and it's beautiful. I can speak French.
please excuse any typos as I am using Siri.
most Caribbean countries are too destitute and have high crime. The only place in the Caribbean I'd like is the Cayman Islands which I have been multiple times.

 

[Atilla]

Very interesting. 20+ countries countries beats the US by only $1.076 trillion. Population doesn't matter. If population mattered then China would have a higher GNP than the US and it does not.

Ofcourse population size matters. It matters because Labour is a factor of production and also represents the market place. Land, Labour and 'K'apital are factors of production.

As China develops and increases use of Capital you will soon see the difference. Same goes for India.

Seems to me that you are picking statistics to support your case whilst disregarding anything that doesn't fit. Irrespective of whether it has foundation or credibility.


Comparing Poland which was a communist country until fairly recently with UK, Spain or California is hardly a like for like in determining whether population is a factor or not. This is not a science where one can plug in and out what one chooses - all things being equal.

In contrast to that, I point to the industriousness of certain European countries such as Germany, Sweden, Norway, Austria and Denmark. Their GDP per capita PPP is among the highest, (the amount of money produced "per head" or each citizen, which is a good measure of how industrious the people are). When people speak of higher standards of living in Europe, they are referring to these countires.

No not at all. Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, UK, Ireland, Benulux., Germany are just as advanced and some more so. Simply that the distribution of wealth is not the same.


My comment - When there is big prey to hunt out in the big wide jungle some people simply want to swat mosquitoes. means there are so many more bigger issues and advantages to be had in the union that for one to focus on migrants living in estates and cesspools as you refer to them is pitifully insignificant imo.

Most migrants are hard working and have drive to get on ahead. Same unsavoury characters also exist in the endogenous population. Some people are beyond help. Some will take generations to heal and be recuperated into society to the level you may expect or be satisfied with. Migrants don't need this level of encouragement and usually get ahead despite the considerable obstacles and limitations they have.

It is not just a few immigrants, it is millions of immigrants who want the greener grass on the other side of the fence and who could blame them. The problem arises from not respecting what the people who were there before you have created and not taking advantage.

I'm afraid Germany with a declining birth rate along with Japan is in danger of dying out. As I mentioned before Germany 'MUST' import 500K foreigners every year to stay at the same population size (I can't find the article but I can confirm it's validity in studies). Not to mention aging population. Japan is in crises state now with their aged and falling birth rates.

Article - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/21/germany-birthrate-low-falling

Birth Rates List - http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25



Being the devil's advocate may I enquire as to whether you have had any bad experiences with these migrant 'vermin' who come and invade our otherwise clean and sterile perfectly functioning environments?

 

[hhiusa]

I don't want the birthrate to go up I wanted it to go down that's a good sign that Germany is being responsible unlike the immigrants that house 50 children and come and leech off the system. and if population is so important I think it completely ironic that one single state in one country makes as much money or at least very close to what an entire country makes and in many cases more than what some European countries make by a landslide with comparable populations. in my eyes it's 38 million people make $1.9 trillion and another 38 million people make a couple hundred billion dollars I'm going to side with the couple that makes more money. to me that seems a lot more industrious. similarly what data do you think I have cherry picked I'd like to know.

comparing a state like California to a country is not apples to oranges and economy is an economy.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Monaco is anything but beautiful, but it's in the eye of the beholder I guess. Apart from casino square, it's all 1970s concrete apartment blocks. I have family there so know it well. They hate it, but are stuck there with work. Other residents are either tax exile billionaires with lifestyles so out of kilter with even exceptionally wealthy 'normal' people so you don't mix (as in 'spend the weekend on our yacht, you'll need a helicopter to get out to us') or empty apartments used as tax addresses. In either case you don't make friends. And everything you pay for is inflated by the fact that 90% of other residents are entirely price insensitive. If you want a tax friendly state in Europe, Luxembourg is much, much nicer. Even in climate: Côte d'Azur is too cold and wet in the winter and shoulder seasons to be an all year residence: I'd prefer Luxembourg for summers and tax residency and winters in the Canaries or Bahamas.

Yank was used as a friendly term, if you find it derogatory, apologies.

 

[Atilla]

I don't want the birthrate to go up I wanted it to go down that's a good sign that Germany is being responsible unlike the immigrants that house 50 children and come and leech off the system. and if population is so important I think it completely ironic that one single state in one country makes as much money or at least very close to what an entire country makes and in many cases more than what some European countries make by a landslide with comparable populations. in my eyes it's 38 million people make $1.9 trillion and another 38 million people make a couple hundred billion dollars I'm going to side with the couple that makes more money. to me that seems a lot more industrious. similarly what data do you think I have cherry picked I'd like to know.

comparing a state like California to a country is not apples to oranges and economy is an economy.

You seem to be very good with numbers.

Can you kindly compare California stats with London's population and earnings please.


Thanks

 

[mike.]

I love how you guys refer to us as across the pond are you "cross" about us making seven times more money than you guys do

Nahh,
when you get to c0cky we get one of our small home retail traders to crash your stock market by x-billion, Just think what our big boys could do ?

btw, imho is "in my honest opinion " and btw is by the way.

 

[hhiusa]

no apologies necessary.
thanks for the advice about Monaco. I like boating so I like to go visit all the yacht shows not that I'm going to buy one. there's the boat show in Newport Beach, California; Monaco, Dubai, UAE

I didn't say it would be the only place I would go. I still think that the US has the best weather in the world and I've been around the block a few times.

I like people so I would also like a place in spite of the high taxes, Sweden has a corporate tax rate of 21% - a liitle more than of the US tax rate, which 39%. tax treaty with the US whereby if the corporate tax rate of your home country is at least 55% of the tax rate and you can choose to pay Sweden's or your home tax depending upon how you structure it. additionally you can throw 25% of the gross earnings into an allocation fund for up to six years tax deferred at which point you only pay the sweetest government rate on the lump sum which has historically averaged around 3.6%.

thanks for the interesting advice about Monaco and your family's trouble. It was the first time I had actually heard something bad about it

 

[counter_violent]

In my view there is zero chance of that happening and you only have to look at the approach being taken to Greece to know there will be no allowance for any renegotiation of terms.

Oh come on !
No renegotiation with a major player who just happens to be ahead of the curve. Just watch what happens when we give others the lead, they will pick up the baton and run with it. We already know where the main objections will come from, the likes of France, the failed socialist state.

 

[counter_violent]

[qoute]I personally would have to disagree.

Time will tell but if there is any yielding by the EU to British demands it sets the ball rolling for everyone else. Maybe we should have another sweepstakes on it but I am almost certain that we will still have the referundum because we won't get what we want from the EU.

The referendum takes place in any event regardless of any renegotiation.

 

[Atilla]

I think we can renegotiate. Give and take.

Personally I like what EU proposing on financial transaction tax per every trade made by investment banks. This can be a minuscule amount but considering the zillions of transactions will come to good sum of money.

If EU and UK play a standard game I do believe other countries will follow.

If you want to conduct business in one of the most financially rich and busy regions on the globe one pays a small charge.

Banks caused this crash in taking excessive risk and so they should pay. Alternatively, all the profit they make goes to paying stupid daft bonuses on salaries not deserved to fat cats. These people are unhinged from rest of society and think the sun shines out of their rear.

In exchange for playing ball with EU in standardising financial tax we in return will get something back.



The UK is heavily reliant on the financial sector and we need to balance this with agriculture and manufacturing. These are also strategic industries where we should aim to have some presence.

These strategic and structural changes will benefit the whole country and not just London or the South.

 

[hhiusa]

I think we can renegotiate. Give and take.

Personally I like what EU proposing on financial transaction tax per every trade made by investment banks. This can be a minuscule amount but considering the zillions of transactions will come to good sum of money.

If EU and UK play a standard game I do believe other countries will follow.

If you want to conduct business in one of the most financially rich and busy regions on the globe one pays a small charge.

Banks caused this crash in taking excessive risk and so they should pay. Alternatively, all the profit they make goes to paying stupid daft bonuses on salaries not deserved to fat cats. These people are unhinged from rest of society and think the sun shines out of their rear.

In exchange for playing ball with EU in standardising financial tax we in return will get something back.



The UK is heavily reliant on the financial sector and we need to balance this with agriculture and manufacturing. These are also strategic industries where we should aim to have some presence.

These strategic and structural changes will benefit the whole country and not just London or the South.

The South is where all money is, which makes sense that that is why the money is spent there. If I was to live in London, then why would want any money spent in Liverpool. I would want my tax money to be spent where it benefits me. If more tax revenue is generated in London, then the bulk of it should be directed back to London.

 

[Splitlink]

Is this something Europeans do - not say what they mean and speak in metaphors. Why not try saying what you mean?

And what is Imho?

"As many have found to their cost". Do you mean detriment and to the detriment of what?

Whenever I see IMHO I get a magnifier out and look at what was written more closely. Does the "H" stand for "Honest", or "humble?

Leaving Scotland aside for a moment, what is nationalism to an Englishman? Even in Alfred's reign they were a pretty diverse bunch. Why should not Cumbrians or Northumbrians separate from Wessex in the same way as Ulster from Ireland?

 

[Atilla]

The South is where all money is, which makes sense that that is why the money is spent there. If I was to live in London, then why would want any money spent in Liverpool. I would want my tax money to be spent where it benefits me. If more tax revenue is generated in London, then the bulk of it should be directed back to London.

G8 windup.

Enjoy all that you do

 

[Pat494]

Having tried a lot of the alternatives and found them wanting, what we should do next is a problem. The Left makes a Greek/French sort of mess-up and the Right just pours even more money into the pockets of the rich. The Centre seems gutless and uncertain of anything.

If Britain were to exit the EU should we leave the Scots still in ? They say they like it - a la Sturgeon. And once out could we survive ? But may have to eat humble pie and beg to be let back in.

The Eurozone shows it's inflexibility in the Greek situation.

 

[Splitlink]

But may have to eat humble pie and beg to be let back in.

The Eurozone shows it's inflexibility in the Greek situation.

If UK leaves EU and the latter finds that it can do without Britain, they may not let it back in. Why reintroduce the same old problem again?

The UK has sat on the fence, since the beginning, always criticising and not, really, doing much to improve anything. Tony Blair did try to get a reform on the agricultural policy. That ended in failure but he did try. Since then, nothing except stupidities, like straight bananas.

 

[Atilla]

If UK leaves EU and the latter finds that it can do without Britain, they may not let it back in. Why reintroduce the same old problem again?

The UK has sat on the fence, since the beginning, always criticising and not, really, doing much to improve anything. Tony Blair did try to get a reform on the agricultural policy. That ended in failure but he did try. Since then, nothing except stupidities, like straight bananas.

Another factor - as with good many other cycles in business, the economy, world order etc, there are good times and bad times.

The UK being a less than enthusiastic late comer missed out on the good times and only joined in once it saw Italy, Portugal and Spain gaining heaps and bounds with better economic growth and rise in living standards.

I agree the UK was late to the party and been moaning ever since.


It may have something to do with us being an Island. I'm sure if we had land borders and roads connecting us all, the British public would be more EU friendly. :idea: