Discuss current Wyckoff charts

[Gary Fullett]

Hi everyone.

It was suggested that I start a thread where I could post some screen prints of charts using Wyckoff principles in real time so you can use it in your trading. I would love to have your feedback.

As a little background, I started my trading career in 1982 and traded in the S&P pit at the CME. When I was first on the floor, I struggled with my trading. I started watching the paper flow of orders going into the pit, and noticed a pattern of where large orders were being placed. So I looked up sales by price, and was able to deduce where big money was active. This is what brought me to Richard Wyckoff principles, and I’ve traded using these principles ever since.

The great thing about Wyckoff is that it doesn’t matter what market or time frame I’m trading. It could be forex, commodities, or stocks. It could be 5 minute charts or monthly charts. The principles are the same for all of them.

I’ve been teaching Wyckoff principles since 1995. A vast (and free) archive of my past webinars and chat room sessions is located on my website. I also have a glossary of Wyckoff terms that I urge you to go to if you’re new to Wyckoff.


Keep watching the thread. I’ll post charts when I see some good setups.

Gary

 

[Gary Fullett]

Forex charts

 

[Gary Fullett]

These charts were posted in another thread, but since I started this one, I'll post them here too. They are the emini S&P daily and 15 minute charts.

 

[DonStar]

Hi Gary: Thanks for the new thread and the information. I'm on my way to check out your web site. Thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge. I work full time and trade end of day stocks and some options. But like you said, Wyckoff works on all timeframes.

Thanks again. I have subscribed to this thread and will contribute when I can.

Don

 

[Gary Fullett]

Thanks for your interest Don. I'm looking forward to some great discussions about Wyckoff principles. Please let me know if there are any charts, time frames, etc you'd like to discuss.

Gary

 

[DionysusToast]

I'd be interested in intra-day analysis of the ES...

 

[Gary Fullett]

Here is an ES daily, 15 minute, and Nasdaq / S&P daily spread

View attachment 20120229 1.pdf

View attachment 20120229 2.pdf

View attachment 20120229 3.pdf

 

[Gary Fullett]

DionysusToast, here is an ES hourly chart and bond hourly chart

 

[DionysusToast]

Many thanks Gary - Are there some VSA concepts being used here?

If so - I have a few questions...

 

[Gary Fullett]

Many thanks Gary - Are there some VSA concepts being used here?

If so - I have a few questions...

I am somewhat familiar with VSA and Tom Williams, but I use pure Wyckoff in my analysis. From what I understand, VSA uses some Wyckoff principles, but it's not "pure" Wyckoff. They deal with price and volume like Wyckoff, but there are also some important differences. If there is a VSA concept that is Wyckoff related, I'd be more than happy to answer your question. I've done a seminar with the VSA folks called The Best of Wyckoff, so I'm familiar with it.

Gary

 

[Gary Fullett]

Silver chart

 

[Gary Fullett]

ES daily and 60 min charts

 

[barjon]

gary

nice charts.

I tried hard with Wyckoff many years ago, but never really got to grips with it. One of the things that always confused me was the volume bit since buys always equal sells. I'm much more at home with the sort of thinking in this recent article - Understanding Liquidity and Market Pullbacks - and you can get some pretty hefty moves on low volume.

Perhaps you could expand on the volume aspect a bit?

jon

 

[Gary Fullett]

gary

nice charts.

I tried hard with Wyckoff many years ago, but never really got to grips with it. One of the things that always confused me was the volume bit since buys always equal sells. I'm much more at home with the sort of thinking in this recent article - Understanding Liquidity and Market Pullbacks - and you can get some pretty hefty moves on low volume.

Perhaps you could expand on the volume aspect a bit?

jon

Thanks for the compliment.

Volume can not necessarily be looked at as intra-day or even day by day. You have to look at volume and price action over a period of time. There will be days where volume is light and moves are significant, and days where volume is high and moves are small. But overall, volume and price action will be significant over a period of time, not necessarily short term.

You had said

One of the things that always confused me was the volume bit since buys always equal sells.

. This is true, but it's the number of buy/sell combinations that create volume.

Gary

 

[barjon]

................ but it's the number of buy/sell combinations that create volume............

Gary

so you're looking at it in terms of overall activity, rather than buyer vs seller?

 

[DionysusToast]

Well - funnily enough - I just received my first 2 trading books in a long time:

Studies in tape reading - Wyckoff
Tape reading & market tactics - Neill

Now - I've been thru a lot of VSA stuff and on a daily basis with stocks, I get where they are going with it.

High volume, low range means pros are taking the opposite side - OK, get that.

What I don't get is some of the other stuff. Where they describe what the volume does, where the bar closes and how this compares to the last few 'bars'.

On an daily basis I can still get that but when they say it works in any timeframe, then I smell bu11shi1t. I might be looking at a 3 min & you a 1 min and you will see totally different pictures in terms of where those bar closes & what the relative volume is.

To me - VSA tries to define minutiae but the concept is quite appealing, I just don't see how VSA can be applied intra-day on any timeframe when it relies so much on position of bar close, volume compared to last 2 bars - that sort of stuff will vary with the timeframe uses -1,2,3,5,10, 15 min...

Your thoughts?

 

[Gary Fullett]

so you're looking at it in terms of overall activity, rather than buyer vs seller?

In order for a market to go up, a buyer must be willing to buy at a higher price. If not, the market will not go up. The opposite is true for down markets. If the market is to go down, the seller must be willing to sell at the buyer's price, which would be a lower price. So yes, I am looking at overall activity because the number of buyers and sellers is the same. I want to know if the buyers are willing to pay up, or are the sellers willing to sell lower.

For every buy, there is a sell, and that creates volume. It also creates a transference of risk. It is the ebb and flow of this activity that creates the market action. So we are judging strength and weakness all the time. If there is a news event that happens, it can effect the market acutely. But this doesn't mean that this is a change of behavior or a change of trend. Example: Japan's tsunami, government reports. So the action may be fast and furious over a short period of time, which may not effect trend or be a change of behavior. The shorter the time frame, the more "noise" in the market. Wyckoff was a trend trader.


Gary

 

[Gary Fullett]

What I don't get is some of the other stuff. Where they describe what the volume does, where the bar closes and how this compares to the last few 'bars'.

On an daily basis I can still get that but when they say it works in any timeframe, then I smell bu11shi1t. I might be looking at a 3 min & you a 1 min and you will see totally different pictures in terms of where those bar closes & what the relative volume is.

To me - VSA tries to define minutiae but the concept is quite appealing, I just don't see how VSA can be applied intra-day on any timeframe when it relies so much on position of bar close, volume compared to last 2 bars - that sort of stuff will vary with the timeframe uses -1,2,3,5,10, 15 min...

Your thoughts?

Time frame is one the the most key aspects of trading. You can not trade a 5 minute chart by looking by watching the hourly action. There are times when the hourly chart can be up, and the 5 minute chart can be down. So you can only scalp the market, based on the time frame you are trading. You could have many trends in different time frames. The longer the time frame, the more significant the trend. For example, there are opportunities short term in the markets intra-day, which may be contrary to the longer term time frames. So if you're buying a 5 minute chart and the longer term trend is down, you can't take that 5 minute chart and turn it into a position trade because it may be different in a longer time frame.

Bottom line is that Wyckoff works in all time frames. You have to be aware of the Wyckoff 3 principles, one of which is cause and effect. You can't take the 5 minute cause and turn it into a monthly position.


Gary

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

Time frame is one the the most key aspects of trading. You can not trade a 5 minute chart by looking by watching the hourly action. There are times when the hourly chart can be up, and the 5 minute chart can be down. So you can only scalp the market, based on the time frame you are trading. You could have many trends in different time frames. The longer the time frame, the more significant the trend. For example, there are opportunities short term in the markets intra-day, which may be contrary to the longer term time frames. So if you're buying a 5 minute chart and the longer term trend is down, you can't take that 5 minute chart and turn it into a position trade because it may be different in a longer time frame.

Bottom line is that Wyckoff works in all time frames. You have to be aware of the Wyckoff 3 principles, one of which is cause and effect. You can't take the 5 minute cause and turn it into a monthly position.


Gary

Hi Gary, just reading the above comments and just wanted to know if you think this is a contradiction (or i may have misunderstood your post). Are you saying you can not take signals off a 5 minute chart with reference to and hourly chart? Are you sure about this?

So from your comments you appear to not class scalping as trading?

Everything is relative to the time frame, scalping is just a definition of time. There for everything that happens in the markets has its own place and reason, and therefore its own importance/validity.

I find Wyckoff work very thought provoking by the way, and read your posts with interest.

 

[Gary Fullett]

Euro 60 minute