Concept FX

[stevespray]

a couple of questions steve if you are happy to answer them. i have watched the concept site and this forum for some time without buying. i use fx53 which while not perfect does put you in control (not reliaint on signals).

1. when did you buy (did you miss phil's bad patch)
2. your target is 60k. was your bank 25k as they suggest ?

just being nosey so understand if this is too much info

This thread is actually very useful if you read back a couple of years. It shows many things including how tricky it is when you are running a mechanical system. It shows peoples hopes and dreams and also how quickly 'faith' can be destroyed. It is worth a read as several of the posters have continued to post over that two year period.

I bought it in May 08 so I was in during the 'bad patch' but I had already made quite a bit by the time that period occured.

They don't suggest starting with a £25k bank. Instead they suggest breaking the strategy into two stages; 1 ) Bank Building and the 2 ) Drawing on winnings.

I'd personally recommend starting with a £10k bank as a bare minimum. You have to decide what your target is. I found £25k to be a bit low so I decided on £60k. Once you get to £60k, based on results so far, you'll normally see a return of at least 50% per year on your bank. Some years are much more. I'm up 35% since the Christmas holidays.


Words of warning - No question that forex trading is a high risk strategy. One of the reasons that I could carry on regardless (while others felt that they HAD to stop) was because I only allocated a small amount of my total net worth (liquid net worth) to this system. If it wipes out I won't be on streets - far from it.

To make this system work, and to get your head around how fast it can make and loss money, you have to be prepared to take a two year view.

Just my personal opinions - I'm sure others have differing views and I respect those.


Steve.

 

[stevespray]

Another winner closed overnight with a +240 pips on GBPUSD.

Cheers,
Steve.

 

[bigphil22]

For some reason T2W stopped emailing me updates to this thread. Not sure why.

Just to let people know that I am still using the system and that we've had a really nice start to the new year. I can only back up what Phil has already said and say that the results reported on the website are spot on with all trades being completely genuine.

On a personal level my bank is still growing nicely towards my £60,000 target level where I will start to draw earnings from the system.

Hope these updates help. Is anyone else still running this system?

Cheers,
Steve.

I would be if my bank had been bigger and my losses smaller. I started with 4k and I reckon that was too little as I started exactly at the start of the bad patch. I made a very hefty loss overall and was seeing only small returns on my wins. I was sorely tempted to go back in when the time to renew the signals came up but I looked at my devastated bank, the cost of resubscribing to the signal service and the performance and decided, rightly or wrongly to cut my losses. I paid over the odds for the initial purchase and that combined with the size of my bank, the performance record and the cost of renewing the signals meant that I couldn't see a time when I'd even break even.

Though as you say in another post, I should have sen this longer term, build the bank, take the profit. You live and learn.

Phil

 

[fulham1985]

I've just registered on here specifically to read what people thought about Concept FX since i'm interested in purchasing. The only other review i have found so far is:

http://www.moremoneyreview.com/concept-fx-review-286.html

Has anyone got any more up to date information of recent profits/ losses?

 

[timaru69]

I've just registered on here specifically to read what people thought about Concept FX since i'm interested in purchasing. The only other review i have found so far is:

http://www.moremoneyreview.com/concept-fx-review-286.html

Has anyone got any more up to date information of recent profits/ losses?

Hi

Why not just go their website and download their trade data and put in excel, rebase the account to whatever your fund is , work out the max stops in pips per currency pair, determine position size per ccy by taking risk % of account per trade e.g 5% of starting account, and dividing that by number of pips used as a stop, then multiply your resulting £ per pip times the pips lost won off their trading record.

Easy

Doing that from 1 Jan 2008 I derived the following

Strating account £10,000

30% drawdown on starting account

147 trades over the period to 22 Feb 10

230% return by trade 58 (15/7/2008), however flatline and rangebound to trade 110 when this level is finally breached (20/7/2009).

Return to 22 feb 10 260% since inception (1/09/2008)


Last 20 months would have been a grind though, I am not convinced that many people would have stayed around after receiving a 30% drawdown to their account and if you had joined during that period you may not be happy with your results, I wouldn't be

Cheers

 

[bigphil22]

Last 20 months would have been a grind though, I am not convinced that many people would have stayed around after receiving a 30% drawdown to their account and if you had joined during that period you may not be happy with your results, I wouldn't be

Cheers

That would be be me ... The drawdown and the initial purchase price combined were murderous.

The thing is that IIRC the "system" only went public about 24 months ago. The concept domain name was registered in feb 2008 http://webwhois.nic.uk/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=conceptfx.co.uk&WHOIS+Submit.x=22&WHOIS+Submit.y=6

So they haven't been around as long as the "results" previous to that date would seem to indicate.

Phil

 

[bongofury]

another ad today....price at 1995 for 5 people but its going up to 5995 ? also notice no results posted since 5/2.

 

[mabassa]

Hi everybody
I must say that I also got into Concept FX but that I did so at exactly the wrong time, which meant that I made a pretty big loss in the first year (about 45%). However, for me, it was a combination of unusually volatile market conditions - my first four transactions all opened on the same day and were all losers - which meant that I was 20% down before doing anything. This was coupled with my personal circumstances, which meant I missed a few deals. Unfortunately for me, almost every one I missed was a winner but I managed to hit every single loser!
Because I understood WHY I was down, and because I was using money that I could afford to lose and because I always saw this as a 5 years + investment, I decided to keep going. Without wishing to tempt providence, I'm glad I did because I'm already back up about 35% this year (but still nowhere near back to break-even point).
If we can just keep this up, I'd say that I'll be back to where I started in a couple of months and then, after that, the kinds of returns they've been quoting from past years seem as though they could well be achievable after all.

 

[mabassa]

Hi Steve
I see things pretty much the way that you do, particularly from the point of view of not commiting money that you can't afford to lose. However, because I'd been burned before (who hasn't?) I started off very cautiously and I'm glad I did because I got into Concept FX at exactly the worst possible time.
Although I could easily have started with the sort of bank size you recommend, £10k, my thinking was to start off with a relatively small amount and be ready to add to it later. That way, based on the reality that it had actually worked FOR ME (not just allegedly working for other people, based on something I wasn't there to experience for myself) I would know that I was putting money into something that was probably going to be an asset and not a liability.
It's interesting that you should have been saying (on around 10 Feb) that you were up 35% since the Christmas holidays because I was up by almost exactly the same amount at that time. So it wasn't just you.
Just one question, once you put the deals on, do you just leave them, walk away and see at night what's happened or do you ever 'tinker'? For example, I'm sorely tempted, when I see a deal well in profit, to go in and change the stop to (e.g.) what it opened at. (However, I do understand the concept of resistance points and that part of the whole thing is that it's sometimes meant to swing off in the wrong direction and then come back stronger in my favour.)

 

[Tom Bull]

I will ask Uriel Katz at * to put this robot into his Real Money accounts competition and see how it fares before buying it.

Rgds,

Tom

 

[bigphil22]

I will ask Uriel Katz at * to put this robot into his Real Money accounts competition and see how it fares before buying it.

Rgds,

Tom

Every one of Tom's posts on t2w have included the same URL.

 

[x4x]

Hi

Last 20 months would have been a grind though, I am not convinced that many people would have stayed around after receiving a 30% drawdown to their account and if you had joined during that period you may not be happy with your results, I wouldn't be

Cheers

In my opinion anyone who can't take a 30% drawdown should probably stay away from trading - one should trade with an amount they can afford to lose and except deep drawdowns as par for the course.

 

[timaru69]

In my opinion anyone who can't take a 30% drawdown should probably stay away from trading - one should trade with an amount they can afford to lose and except deep drawdowns as par for the course.

Hi

Take your point and but also depends on the trading style being employed.

I don't see anything in the Concept FX sales patter that alludes to a 30+% drawdown.

 

[GumRai]

Hi

Take your point and but also depends on the trading style being employed.

I don't see anything in the Concept FX sales patter that alludes to a 30+% drawdown.

You wouldn't really expect to see that in the sales patter - would you ?

 

[timaru69]

You wouldn't really expect to see that in the sales patter - would you ?

Of course not, how could they then sell to a greedy get rich quick public if they draw attention to the drawdowns

Hey , I have a great idea for a get rich quick business..........................

 

[stevespray]

Hi

Take your point and but also depends on the trading style being employed.

I don't see anything in the Concept FX sales patter that alludes to a 30+% drawdown.

When I started with Concept I was up 48% inside six weeks - that's not mentioned in the sales patter either :cheesy:

Take a trading system, apply capital to a bank size you feel happy with and then see how it goes over a couple of years. You'll make mistakes (missing trades / set incorrect stops and targets / set incorrect position sizes) - learn from those mistakes. Once you start to make money then maybe add a little more capital. So on and so forth. This IS NOT a get rich quick scheme. Trading, even so called 'black box' systems, will teach you something about the markets but it WILL teach you even more about yourself.

If you make a plan and then follow it the chances are you will be successful.


Steve.

 

[Black Swan]

In my opinion anyone who can't take a 30% drawdown should probably stay away from trading - one should trade with an amount they can afford to lose and except deep drawdowns as par for the course.

A 30% drawdown takes a lot of winning in order to get back to restoring parity...if ever for many...

 

[GumRai]

A 30% drawdown takes a lot of winning in order to get back to restoring parity...if ever for many...

Yes, a 30% drawdown will require more than a 40% increase on the bank to get it back.

 

[stevespray]

I dont know many people who trade who have never had a 30% drawdown.

There is a positive way of looking at this.... If you have a 30% drawdown (and that is as big as it ever gets based on account size vs the most the account ever was) then the longer you carry on trading the greater the chance that you'll make back the lost money and become profitable. Think about it carefully?

The first and most important rule is to remain in the game.


Steve.

 

[bigphil22]

I dont know many people who trade who have never had a 30% drawdown.

There is a positive way of looking at this.... If you have a 30% drawdown (and that is as big as it ever gets based on account size vs the most the account ever was) then the longer you carry on trading the greater the chance that you'll make back the lost money and become profitable. Think about it carefully?

The first and most important rule is to remain in the game.

Steve.

But surely this doesn't work if the cause of the drawdown is a faulty trading methodology? I could just sit and guess on the ways the different pairs will move and never be right. My big problem (one of them... :innocent was that I lost faith in the system. For the record my drawdown with Concept was 40%, and I buggered up a speculative trade betting £15 a pip instead of £1.50. The two combined put a dent in my confidence and my bank.

/Phil