Cashmaster PIE

[Alastair10]

Hi
I know this is an old thread but has anyone had a look at PIE Profitable Investment Education? Paul Bent and Glynn Calvert are the authors. It seems to be an options based strategy based on FTSE and DAX options trades. It seems to have a number of followers....

Update:
I came across some marketing for PIE a few weeks ago and felt: if it looked too good to be true it probably was. I am surprised that PIE has been around so long.

I have now had the time to read through this thread from the beginning so thanks for all the contributions. Having traded options strategies before the rewards can be good but there is no reward without risk, no magic bullet.

Having read through all the comments the PIE £3k price tag seems excessive but I think BOSE might be a worthwhile weekend read.
Thanks for all the contributions and information ...

 

[Traders Bulletin]

My October FTSE PIE trade has expired today for my 14th winning trade in a row.

Return is a little lower than I would normally hope for and there a a few reason s for this;

We are now using a bigger bank. (£5200 per £10 staked (spread betting), as opposed to £3500 that used to be recommended.

Volatility is low and therefore returns are reduced (theoretically I am placing a safer bet).

Based on a £5200 pot and staking £10 a point my return on my OCtober FTSE PIE trade was 0.81% (£42).

My Dax trade closes at midday and is on course to be another winner and with a much better return.

Regards

 

[Porkpie]

Thanks Glynn! Honestly, you old timer marketeers are so predictable.

Came across this forum a couple of months ago, as I like to keep in touch with opinions about the PIE trading strategy. Disappointingly I find this forum quite negative on the whole and it does not help that a few posters are quite abusive which really isn't necessary. However, I feel compelled to post here as I do not feel like a “mug” just because I went on the course and bought the PIE system.

Believe me, I was very sceptical about their claims that you could make 20% or more a year and it only takes 10 minutes a month - all with very little risk. However I carried out my due diligence and decided to try the course– well I'm glad I did.

I have been trading using the PIE system for 6 months now, and don't regret it for a minute. Currently I find my returns are similar to those of Simonh88, ie around 18% (annualised). I have already made back my 3K investment, and more. So I don't feel like a “mug”, in fact I think I would have felt more of a mug if I had left my money invested in a bank or building society earning around 1%. I have in the past traded forex using various systems but in the long run they all lost me money (and some of them involve spending much of the day staring at the screen). PIE is the only system that has consistently made good returns with no losses (though I accept it is still fairly early days).

Taking your position each month does only take 10 minutes, and the claimed returns are in the region of 20%. There is some risk to your capital so I minimise this by regularly checking the FTSE. Also, I only trade the FTSE as it is less volatile than the DAX, and I do not spread bet, I use direct market access through IB. This is because your margin requirements are less volatile, and you collect your premium immediately instead of at the end of your trading period (which could be 2 or 3 months down the line).

So to open minded people thinking about going on the course, I would say give it serious consideration. Yes, you might be able to pick up the manual on the cheap, but in my opinion it is no substitute for going on the course and getting first hand tuition from Paul and Glynn. This includes using the IB trading platform which is not newbie friendly. In addition, Paul and Glynn guide you through opening an account with IB which is not straightforward and they continue to give prompt support should you have any queries.

 

[Porkpie]

My site (and in the main, this one for that matter) is aimed at people who are interested in trading currencies, indices, commodities, option etc.


Let’s put it bluntly – if we see a series of massive long green candles, we know there’s some upward momentum in the market. That’s why traders use candlestick charts, rather than line charts – they give us a great picture of momentum and its implied volume.

It’s as simple an indicator of momentum as you can get, and I’m always a fan of keeping things simple.

OMG, same old peddled nonsense! The day you actually start talking about fundamentals, liquidity and value then I will know that you know what you are talking about..

Please Mr Rose, push yourself to understanding the market, not the retail nonsense spewed out by the masses, the real topics that matter, can you do that? I challenge you.

Are you up to the challenge Mr Rose??

 

[Alastair10]

Good Morning,

Having read through the latest offerings we don't seem to be moving forward. Mark is offering to share his results, that is always welcome but where is the risk mitigation? That scares me. I like to know what my maximum downside is from the start.

Looking at earlier posts thanks to some of them I had a good look at BOSE which looks a similar sort of rinse and repeat system but with the comfort of a long dated put option as a cover for any adverse exposure so you have the 'insurance' in advance. However my reading of PIE is that when you have a risk of 'trades' moving against you then you have to jump in fast and do something. As I have said before PIE looks interesting as an idea but at that price point I am doubtful.

Now if anyone has had a bash at spread-betting BOSE that would be a really worthwhile conversation!!!! I have tried trading options before (when working abroad) but ended up in a strange situation of making profits without really understanding why, so I quit while I was ahead .....

To be fair whether you go with Interactive Brokers or OptionsXpress ( no marketing plug intended) or any of the majors the education, which is free, is excellent! So a few evenings looking at the 'free' stuff really gives you a better appreciation of what would work for you.

Now in the UK spread betting options is something to look at..... any ideas?

Happy Trading............

 

[Traders Bulletin]

OMG, same old peddled nonsense! The day you actually start talking about fundamentals, liquidity and value then I will know that you know what you are talking about..

Please Mr Rose, push yourself to understanding the market, not the retail nonsense spewed out by the masses, the real topics that matter, can you do that? I challenge you.

Are you up to the challenge Mr Rose??

Did you get censored or did you choose to take the abuse out? I hope it was the latter.

Your quote above is a little out of context as i did say "Strictly speaking, maybe candlesticks aren’t an indicator in their own right, but what better way to picture the ‘uppy-downy’ nature (that’s a technical term) of the markets than watching what the candlesticks are doing."

I've written stuff on all sorts of aspects of trading, the one you are referring to just happened to be the email I had just sent out and was on momentum indicators.

Admittedly, other than avoiding high impact news I don't tend to trade based on fundamentals as I prefer TA.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Traders Bulletin]

Realised I hadn't posted my October DAX PIE trade result.

Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my October DAX PIE trade returned 2.98% (£155).

Regards,

Mark

 

[Traders Bulletin]

Good Morning,

Having read through the latest offerings we don't seem to be moving forward. Mark is offering to share his results, that is always welcome but where is the risk mitigation? That scares me. I like to know what my maximum downside is from the start.

Looking at earlier posts thanks to some of them I had a good look at BOSE which looks a similar sort of rinse and repeat system but with the comfort of a long dated put option as a cover for any adverse exposure so you have the 'insurance' in advance. However my reading of PIE is that when you have a risk of 'trades' moving against you then you have to jump in fast and do something. As I have said before PIE looks interesting as an idea but at that price point I am doubtful.

Now if anyone has had a bash at spread-betting BOSE that would be a really worthwhile conversation!!!! I have tried trading options before (when working abroad) but ended up in a strange situation of making profits without really understanding why, so I quit while I was ahead .....

To be fair whether you go with Interactive Brokers or OptionsXpress ( no marketing plug intended) or any of the majors the education, which is free, is excellent! So a few evenings looking at the 'free' stuff really gives you a better appreciation of what would work for you.

Now in the UK spread betting options is something to look at..... any ideas?

Happy Trading............

Hi Alastair,

It is possible to spread bet option prices with IG. No premiums involved though i'm afraid.

£2 a point is the minimum stake and margin required is around £1k, profits tax free of course.

Disadvantages are spreads and margins can increase quickly and there can sometimes be a limited number of options to choose from.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Dertrader]

Thanks Glynn! Honestly, you old timer marketeers are so predictable.

Porkpie, if you are insinuating that I am Glynn (or Paul) then you are sadly mistaken.

I feel sorry for you as you come across as very cynical by thinking the worst of people all the time.

 

[k3vbc6l]

Does anyone on this thread trade PIE with their SIPP? I'm having problems finding a broker that will allow me to trade it within a SIPP. Any tips will be greatly appreciated.

 

[gerryg]

Is spreadbetting is safer or better than CFD's? Please enlighten cause I would also like to try that but doubt if the move from my current tuned trading is reasonable. Thanks.

 

[Porkpie]

Porkpie, if you are insinuating that I am Glynn (or Paul) then you are sadly mistaken.

I feel sorry for you as you come across as very cynical by thinking the worst of people all the time.

Great stuff, glad top hear it. Another satisfied pie trader. As you say, better than having the money in the bank so all the best to you and I mean that sincerely. But nothing wrong with wanting the best for others by identifying areas of improvement. Its a learning process...

 

[Porkpie]

Hi
I know this is an old thread but has anyone had a look at PIE Profitable Investment Education? Paul Bent and Glynn Calvert are the authors. It seems to be an options based strategy based on FTSE and DAX options trades. It seems to have a number of followers....

Update:
I came across some marketing for PIE a few weeks ago and felt: if it looked too good to be true it probably was. I am surprised that PIE has been around so long.

I have now had the time to read through this thread from the beginning so thanks for all the contributions. Having traded options strategies before the rewards can be good but there is no reward without risk, no magic bullet.

Having read through all the comments the PIE £3k price tag seems excessive but I think BOSE might be a worthwhile weekend read.
Thanks for all the contributions and information ...

How are you getting on with BOSE? Understand it?

 

[Porkpie]

Is spreadbetting is safer or better than CFD's? Please enlighten cause I would also like to try that but doubt if the move from my current tuned trading is reasonable. Thanks.

Gerry, safer, better? Care to elaborate?

 

[Porkpie]

Did you get censored or did you choose to take the abuse out? I hope it was the latter.

Your quote above is a little out of context as i did say "Strictly speaking, maybe candlesticks aren’t an indicator in their own right, but what better way to picture the ‘uppy-downy’ nature (that’s a technical term) of the markets than watching what the candlesticks are doing."

I've written stuff on all sorts of aspects of trading, the one you are referring to just happened to be the email I had just sent out and was on momentum indicators.

Admittedly, other than avoiding high impact news I don't tend to trade based on fundamentals as I prefer TA.

Regards,

Mark

What abuse?

Nothing wrong with candle sticks or momentum in the right context. But understanding underlying causes of movement is knowing a little about interpreting the fundamentals pre and post data release and other non release data activity. So to just say you trade technicals misses a big picture of what you could be looking at for VERY LITTLE EFFORT. That will give you a real edge alongside your TA.

All the best.

 

[Alastair10]

Hi Porkpie

Well I get the theory of BOSE and the detail is worth reading up on. At least the risk is clear and quantified from the outset so I feel more comfortable with the idea. Interestingly the longer term returns could in theory be higher than those advertised for PIE which must surely be a variation on this theme.

However I am in the process of setting up a demo account to trade this to iron out the wrinkles before committing any funds to it. There is also the scope to margin trade this since you can establish in advance the potential downside. Give me a few months to demo this and then I will post about it. Can't seem to find that much about BOSE on T2W. Much more on the US options forums.

Interestingly for all the hype about PIE there seems to be very little real data about it. I come back to two points with PIE, the price and there must be a risk. Every trading strategy has a risk element and surely it is better as with BOSE to insure against it in advance so you can quantify the risk?

Happy Trading

How are you getting on with BOSE? Understand it?

 

[NKE]

Here's an article about hedging iron condors:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/09/hedging-iron-condors-put-calendars.asp

If anyone can explain in English, I would be very grateful

Hi Porkpie

I have just been reading the PIE thread and debating whether to contribute to it
This article is about hedging an iron condor; basically you add a calendar spread to an iron condor; ie you buy a put 4 months out and sell current months puts against it. You take credit on the current month iron condor which helps to offset the debit of the calendar spread, but you can then sell next months puts against the long month further out - and depending on the movement of the underlying generate additional premium; the risk of course is that if the underlying moves up sharply in price, then the value of your long put in absolute terms and as a hedge will decline.
The asymmetric movement of volatilty between price rises and falls affects premium decay; ie premium decay accelerates as price moves up, because vol drops, whereas if price moves down, vol increases and will likely increase option premium above the initial values
having the long 4 month put option helps to mitigate this

 

[Agisthos]

I am not a fan of affiliates promoting their products on 3rd party forums. But at least Mark Rose's comments are logical and well reasoned, even if I disagree with him.

Simonh and Becks on the other hand, these guys are acting mentally unhinged and have scared off anyone else that wanted to discuss P.I.E
Take a look back at how irrational and unreasonable you have acted.

 

[Becks100]

Friend of yours Mark Rose? Pay you to come up with that?

Nobody has done more damage to the reputation of PIE than Mark Rose himself. His antics on this board and on his own website have been nothing less than deplorable and no doubt why the people at PIE told him to stop. Shame about the losses he made running the strategy

Mark Rose is an oily salesman, only interested in signing people up to PIE on his website so that he gets big bucks for his 'efforts'. People like him need to be shown up for what they really are.

The £3k course is just clever marketing, there's nothing new in the strategy at all, it's a well known and well used strategy for trading options. Even the so called magic for getting out of bad trades is nothing new. To be honest, I was expecting something technical.

Thankfully I bought the manual on here for a fraction of the cost and interestingly, I had 4 people who wanted to sell me their manual because they'd given up with it. The strategy as outlined in the manual is pretty basic and has inherent weaknesses. It is not without risk especially when the market tanks.

For those of you have worked out what the strategy is and are puzzled by what the magic is for exiting bad trades, mail me, you can have it for free

B

I am not a fan of affiliates promoting their products on 3rd party forums. But at least Mark Rose's comments are logical and well reasoned, even if I disagree with him.

Simonh and Becks on the other hand, these guys are acting mentally unhinged and have scared off anyone else that wanted to discuss P.I.E
Take a look back at how irrational and unreasonable you have acted.

 

[Agisthos]

Becks, nobody needs to pay me to point out you are acting unreasonable with your posts bordering on rants. From what I have read on here, Mark Rose has acted fairly and spent far too much time replying to trolling and personal attacks.

And yes, this PIE course looks like a typical investment coaching operation, where newbies are charged a very high price for basic information, and affiliates get 50% commission for passing on newbie customers. I would not call it an outright scam, but you will get far better value for money doing your own research.

I predict the hedging strategy is going to fail during the next GFC like event with parabolic market movements, and all these PIE followers will blow up their accounts.