Capitalism

hhiusa said:
"When I say “capitalism,” I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church."
- Ayn Rand

This means separation from the state, not a non-existent state as is the case with anarchy. Learn how to reconcile those things in your mind.

If "A" has certain criteria, which is not met, then it is not "A". You cannot be half gay. You may have homosexual qualities, but that does not necessarily make you homosexual. There is no such thing as partial capitalism. A system may have capitalist elements, but that does not inherently make it capitalism.
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Reading some of the other posts on an individual basis.
Can you be a pure or semi capitalist if you work for some else.

I have always thought that I was a capitalist, voted Conservatism style politics, lived and worked only in only free market capitalist style countries.

So without working for myself can I even closely relate myself to being a capitalist.

Would love to hear yours and new_trader thoughts.

Thanks
Oscar
 
Oscar Reed said:
Reading some of the other posts on an individual basis.
Can you be a pure or semi capitalist if you work for some else.

I have always thought that I was a capitalist, voted Conservatism style politics, lived and worked only in only free market capitalist style countries.

So without working for myself can I even closely relate myself to being a capitalist.

Would love to hear yours and new_trader thoughts.

Thanks
Oscar
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What does living in a free market capitalist country have to do with being a capitalist? Asking whether you can be semi-capitalist is like asking if you can be half gay. If you like both, then you are neither straight nor gay. You are bisexual, which is something else. Capitalist and socialist principles mixed together would be neither capitalism nor socialism.

Capitalists can work for someone else, to answer your question. It is a mentality.
 
hhiusa said:
What does living in a free market capitalist country have to do with being a capitalist? Asking whether you can be semi-capitalist is like asking if you can be half gay. If you like both, then you are neither straight nor gay. You are bisexual, which is something else. Capitalist and socialist principles mixed together would be neither capitalism nor socialism.

Capitalists can work for someone else, to answer your question. It is a mentality.
Click to expand...

Hi hhiusa

Thank goodness - you are now opening up your mind with regards to being gay or not gay - yes bisexual is the answer

All the while I have said you are a black or white person - ie either one or the other - with no in between or "grey area"

But in reality - not everything is black or white - many concepts and many circumstances are "grey " - and ideal example being trading - its full of grey areas neither bull or bear but in between. Pregnancy is black or white - but as I am sure you know - economics is not - its no science / mathematical equation no matter how many theorists would love it to be

Now open your mind further

Get out of old fashioned concepts - ie anything over a decade ago

You can have a mixed economy - I don't care what the past greatest economists or theorists say - today so many countries have a mixed - balanced economy - with capitalism and socialism working together

Call it a "grey concept" call it what ever you like - its even possible to train a Lion and a Deer or even a pussy cat to live together - ( not easy but possible)

With regards to a previous question you asked me - no I did not qualify for Mensa or to be in the top 2% of IQ's levels - I tried it over 15 yrs ago - happy to just be in top 10%

Regards


F
 
Forexmospherian said:
Hi hhiusa

Thank goodness - you are now opening up your mind with regards to being gay or not gay - yes bisexual is the answer

All the while I have said you are a black or white person - ie either one or the other - with no in between or "grey area"

But in reality - not everything is black or white - many concepts and many circumstances are "grey " - and ideal example being trading - its full of grey areas neither bull or bear but in between. Pregnancy is black or white - but as I am sure you know - economics is not - its no science / mathematical equation no matter how many theorists would love it to be

Now open your mind further

Get out of old fashioned concepts - ie anything over a decade ago

You can have a mixed economy - I don't care what the past greatest economists or theorists say - today so many countries have a mixed - balanced economy - with capitalism and socialism working together

Call it a "grey concept" call it what ever you like - its even possible to train a Lion and a Deer or even a pussy cat to live together - ( not easy but possible)

With regards to a previous question you asked me - no I did not qualify for Mensa or to be in the top 2% of IQ's levels - I tried it over 15 yrs ago - happy to just be in top 10%

Regards


F
Click to expand...

That part in blue is interesting. Don't listen to economists and successful entrepreneurs about capitalism, instead we will listen to you with no formal education in anything let alone economics or finance. As I said earlier, you can have capitalism mixed with socialism, but it will no longer be capitalism. Not all things that quack like a duck, are ducks. Having some of the criteria for capitalism, does not make it capitalism.

You can continue to argue for a mixture of both, you cannot argue that the mixture will result in or be called capitalism.

You want some grey, then math and science are full of grey, but that does not mean there is not an exact answer. Cantor came up with the idea for "infinity of infinities" in reference to set theory. There is an infinite set of numbers between 0 and 1 and there is an infinite set of integers from 0 to infinity. There is a continuum of color we see 380 nm to 780nm in the EM spectra. When you see color, it is not subjective, it is objective. There actually is one right answer. Someone may say something is cobalt and another may say it is indigo. There actually is only one right answer to that statement. The human eye is most sensitive to a color most similar to cyan which is represented by the number 555.015 nanometers. It is physical and can be measured. Many things that you think are subjective are indeed objective. Color, temperature, body language and so on.

Plato had some great ideas about philosophy such as "to apeiron" or the forms. He posited that a perfect objective reality existed and it was we were who flawed in our perceptions of the perfect truth. I believe that there is one perfect truth for capitalism; a set of criteria for establishing its basis.
 
Forexmospherian said:
Hi hhiusa

Thank goodness - you are now opening up your mind with regards to being gay or not gay - yes bisexual is the answer

All the while I have said you are a black or white person - ie either one or the other - with no in between or "grey area"

But in reality - not everything is black or white - many concepts and many circumstances are "grey " - and ideal example being trading - its full of grey areas neither bull or bear but in between. Pregnancy is black or white - but as I am sure you know - economics is not - its no science / mathematical equation no matter how many theorists would love it to be

Now open your mind further

Get out of old fashioned concepts - ie anything over a decade ago

You can have a mixed economy - I don't care what the past greatest economists or theorists say - today so many countries have a mixed - balanced economy - with capitalism and socialism working together

Call it a "grey concept" call it what ever you like - its even possible to train a Lion and a Deer or even a pussy cat to live together - ( not easy but possible)

With regards to a previous question you asked me - no I did not qualify for Mensa or to be in the top 2% of IQ's levels - I tried it over 15 yrs ago - happy to just be in top 10%

Regards


F
Click to expand...


hhiusa showing he is open to new ideas. :idea:

The boy has potential and ability to learn.

It's a start...:clap:
 
Ahh the markets are closed.
Bit of a dull one today if you ask me, all the real Capitalists are on holiday by now.
Anyhoo a picture paints a thousand words.

"When I say “capitalism,” I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church."
- Ayn Rand

I found this image in the illustrated version of "Atlas shrugged"
 

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That Plato was a clever chap.
"While recognizing the fundamental flaw in
humankind so clearly manifested in the “Hitlers” of the world, Plato
believed in the appointment of one supreme guardian (the philosopher
king), an individual, who with the proper education, was competent
enough to decide on legislative policies. In Plato’s work The Republic,
such a knowledgeable being determines the laws in the city. Plato
believed that the philosopher king was incorruptible since his only desire
was knowledge (his thirst for knowledge surmounting that of any vice). "

https://www.neumann.edu/academics/divisions/business/journal/review09/okpala.pdf

Where in Platos work does it say the Republic should strive for money and profit at all cost. It should be done for free by the person most competent for the job. That sounds like communism to me! :-0


Point proven by Reductio ad Hitlerum
 
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Who does Capitalism work for?
 

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The last two were really trick questions because the real point here is.
 

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postman said:
Ahh the markets are closed.
Bit of a dull one today if you ask me, all the real Capitalists are on holiday by now.
Anyhoo a picture paints a thousand words.

"When I say “capitalism,” I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church."
- Ayn Rand

I found this image in the illustrated version of "Atlas shrugged"
Click to expand...


Yes so true and here is another over the industrial revolution with unbridled capitalism roaring it's way into fat profits.

Children were used to go down mines because their bodies were smaller than men's allowing them to crawl up and down narrow passages. Probably ended up DYING from lung poisoning, earing PENNIES per 14 hour days. That'll be through cold winter and hot summer days.

chiborusa.jpg



Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if these boys weren't whipped for falling asleep on the work from being malnourished and over worked.


Living wage, fair wage, child labour laws, health and safety in fact any form of regulation simply didn't exist at all in those days.
 
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Atilla said:
Yes so true and here is another over the industrial revolution with unbridled capitalism roaring it's way into fat profits.

Children were used to go down mines because their bodies were smaller than men's allowing them to crawl up and down narrow passages. Probably ended up DYING from lung poisoning, earing PENNIES per 14 hour days. That'll be winter/summer time.

Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if these boys weren't whipped for falling asleep on the work from being malnourished and over worked.


Living wage, fair wage, child labour laws, health and safety in fact any form of regulation simply didn't exist at all in those days.
Click to expand...

I met a couple vacationing in Newport Beach, who were from Devon and were Tories. They have children living here. We got along great. When I asked him if he was a Labour supporter because he lives in the "norf", he said "absolutely not, I'm rich. Why would I be for Labour? We both agreed he should vote UKIP in the future if it becomes any more anti-wealth there?

He said "it is ironic that you're American and skinny and I'm british and heavier."
 
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Had to share this screenshot.

Even T2W staff have a view on the thread. ;)
 

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hhiusa said:
Good! Start a new thread and leave this one until you have something intelligent to say.
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postman said:
Capitalism alone is doomed to failure.

The aim of capitalism is to create profit, it has no regard for human beings.

Capitalism stifles invention.
Once you have an idea and you've become dominant you can buy out other companies who come up with competing ideas. Then when you've wiped out the competition why bother coming up with a new product? Just keep selling the same old cheap rubbish to people.

Capitalism is not good for the consumer. It is not in the interests of corporations to create a product that is efficient and reliable. Once you have your oligopoly or better yet monopoly, try built in obsolescence to keep those consumers coming back.

Capitalism stifles art in all its forms.
There is no profit in wrapping up the Pont Neuf or draping half a kilometre of fabric across the Rocky Mountains, but I'm sure the results were spectacular and lifted the human spirit.

Left unchecked capitalism would result in the destruction of the environment. Capitalism per se tends to evil and governments are required to keep companies in check. There is no profit in responsibly disposing of waste products and if allowed capitalists would simply dump the waste where it is cheapest (in the sea or someone else's back yard).

Capitalism will result in dynasty’s.
This is being evidenced all around the world in Banking, Media, Government (Bush, Clinton, Bush Clinton? How can that happen in the Mecca of capitalism.

I could go on, (I generally do).
Click to expand...

You never reply to the points I post because you have no answer to them.

My first post on this thread - completely ignored.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/207062-capitalism-31.html#post2585514

Capitalism will fail because it only benefits a few people at the expense of everyone else. Apartheid was like that, so was Nazism, there I did it again.
 
Just one question for you.

Are you happy to live in a world that has all the human consequences of capitalism outlined by myself and others?
 
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