Best Thread Capital Spreads

"if a client only ever tries to trade on out ticks then we tend to look at him/her more closely ..."

Simon - Please could you expand on what you mean by your comment, I quote above. What is the result of this.

Simon - Will the automated acceptance, you are implementing, include FX ?
 
there is NO Reason to delay trades,it has NOTHING to do with internet connections!-I trade on IB and MetaTrader,and it takes about a nano-second. Anyone's trousers on fire here?
 
Not sure about trousers on fire, though there is nothing worse than watching the market, while you await a delayed confirmation..........................or that dreaded price expired filter.

I hope CP can sort this out and become competitive with competitors on execution speed.
 
one person complains okay, but all of these complains :eek: surely we can't be all daft that you are telling us Internet connections are to blame .

Most people here have accounts with several brokers. CMC, IB, OANDA to name but a few. no problems.

I was thinking of going 30points or more you will not guess by my account size but hey we have to prove you first :cheesy:
If you are faithfully executing the little then...
 
Well with CMC it is much quicker on executions. On the few occasions they offer the requotes it comes usually well under 10 seconds. Confimrations 4/5 secs max. At least you are not left in never never land, while the decide if they want your trade or not.

Just based on my experience with various Retail Brokers / SB companies, I would say anything over 10 seconds is uncompetitive and terrible service.

Having a trade rejected is up to the broker. If it is instant that would be OK, though when the wait is over 10+ seconds, it clearly tips the playing field, especially if this is used as a filter.

I am beginning to think that Spread Betting is a great business to have. Especially considering that most of the punters are new or of low experience. I doubt if a full time pro would accept such execution delays.

Interesting that Simon suggested that they are going to use automoted execution on some products. That might help on this issue. I hope that includes Rolling FX.
 
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Spreadbeteur et al

actually when you look at the complaints they are mainly due to a rejection of a trade that immediately went in their favour... a few clients have kindly pointed out that they also get filled in their favour as well. When you deal through an IB etc the trade gets filled because there is somebody on the other side of the deal so there is no exposure to the company filling your order. On trading platforms we have just as much problems as others.. we place orders to buy at the offer but somebody gets there ahead of us and nothing gets done. That is the market . The main difference between Broking (or direct access) accounts and SB is that you can give a 'market' order and you are filled at the best available price (although this may involve slippage). With SB trading you can only trade on the price shown and if you get rejected you then have to ask for another price. Irritating I know but because we are always the market maker we cannot slip the fill because the client might not want a different fill price.

On direct access if you try to hit a price and you miss it you dont complain... you swear a bit and then maybe wait to see whether you get the fill on a subsequent move or you move your trade price. The fact that the price appeared to be there when you hit the trade button does not mean that you will get the trade.

We are continually increasing our computing power and trade acceptance times but we currently seem to be victims of our own success and trade volumes have increased rather faster than expected. For this reason we are moving to automated trading systems... to be honest though FX will still be closely watched because of the number of 'bum' quotes from the banks!!

Good trading everyone... which from today's P/L seems to be nearly everyone. Clients are very long FTSE S&P and Dow and for some reason for the first time in ages are short of Gold (on the one day that it dumps $5).

Simon
 
you may take note of the number of spreadbet companies that have appeared since I started trading. There used to be 2. Easy money,and who cares if the punters get blown up?
As regards level playing fields-today I watched an options spread go from 21-25.5, to 24.5- 29 and I STILL didn't get filled at 25-what do they want blood?
 
Windlesham

as we dont quote options I have to say that at least that wasn't us. !! (phew) But in reality unless you are willing to put your bids/offers onto an exchange and wait to see if you get a taker !!??? what else can you do. I expect if you had rung the SB desk and talked nicely to the trader he may well have filled you at your price on a phone trade. The problem about orders (and we have the same thing here) is that until 'Our Quote' actually gets to your price and therefore activates the order the dealers are generally completely unaware of the orders existence. So that fact that it is 1/2 a pip away is the same to the dealing desk as if it was 100 points away. At any one monent in time we have a screen showing all orders within 0.03% of the price away (otherwise we have pages and pages of potential orders on screen). With our systems an options price of (in this case) a whole 2% of the price away, even though only 1/2pip would not even register until activation occurred.

You obviously know your markets so it would be educational if someone such as you or Spreadbetteur could actually experience the trading day from the SB companies point of view or maybe get one of the T2W boys(girls?) to come in for a look.

We have our losing days too.... and I get pretty shirty at those times as well !! (today looks like being a case in point)

Simon
 
capitalspreads said:
We have our losing days too.... and I get pretty shirty at those times as well !! (today looks like being a case in point)

Simon

hmm, why not be pioneering here, give the punters for example 1.25/50 spread on euro/usd charge them close out spread 20% net of all spread on their positive trades. autohedge everything. can you legally do this if you wanted too? 50,to 100,000 independent white partners if you like.
 
But there profits would reduce.

Also profits don't only come from the spread despite what they say. I reckon they hedge the known winning traders and let the others go unhedged. They may even over hedge the good traders and use there trades as guideance for themselves...

JonnyT
 
hmm yes, just looking towards the future today........ they might be able to have a vision of profits in a different way from how its been maybe.... I dunno.......... :)

close out spread of 20% I mean on net £ value of position closure. eg your trade realises £500.00, close out spread to them £100.00. along those lines....
 
Simon

We all love you but................................It would be great if you could get your execution confirmation time back in line with your competitors. Then as previuosly discussed we could deal with the rejected trades. It's the combination of the slow execution and knowing that you are only likley to get filled if price is against you that is tough to take.

Spread
 
JonnyT

We have continually narrowed our spreads over our two years of business but our p/l continues to rise. The reason for this is the massive increase in trading volumes as our spreads decrease.

in reality in the long run our P/L numbers average out on the spread. Although we try to keep tabs on everybody it is difficult when times get busy to check each and every client and what they are doing individually. Our hedging policy has been commented on ad-nauseam and is based upon risk parameters in individual and group markets. Nowadays we tend to find that clients virtually cancel themselves out for most of the time with occasional larger positions when the markets trend in one direction. As I have stated over and over again we quote some 2000 markets ...we havnt a clue where any of them are going and in reality little interest in where they go anyway. If I was a s**t hot trader do you think I would be working my socks off running an SB company? If I make a trade in anything you can bet your bottom dollar that the market will go in the other direction.
As long as the markets move and our clients trade then we can react to that. As you say if we have a very good dealer we may overhedge him/her. From our point of view that is information that is useful to us and we would be fools not to act on it. But oddly enuf we are now so busy that we tend to just hedge excess positions these days rather than analyse everything that goes on.

It is curious how clients look at SB companies and their hedging policy. If you traded on a direct access system you would hardly concern yourself with what the guy on the other side of your invidual trade was doing with it. If we continually traded in the markets to match every trade made by a client we would be paying huge amounts in brokerage to no great effect as we know that in 2 seconds somebody else would trade the other way round and we would then just have to reverse the hedge.. The dealers would probably have a nervous breakdown and repetitive strain syndrome.

Our most traded markets are Cable, Euro, FTSE, Dax and S&P of which we quote either 2 or 3 pips (4pips for S&P) and only require minimal margin... which is pretty good in anybody's language. If you are diciplined you should make money on these prices. I should know because I was a proprietary bank trader for many years when the market spreads (even between Market Makers) was almost double this. ( I am talking pre futures markets here).

Dicipline takes time to acquire.

Simon
 
capitalspreads said:
If I was a s**t hot trader do you think I would be working my socks off running an SB company? If I make a trade in anything you can bet your bottom dollar that the market will go in the other direction.


I should know because I was a proprietary bank trader for many years when the market spreads (even between Market Makers) was almost double this. ( I am talking pre futures markets here).



Simon


hmm what happened ?

and with my Idea re close out spread, there are some firms running fully automated systems now isn't there especially on FX ? like you say lower spreads more business, plus if it can be done via SB + 20% of net £ gain..... per trade, per customer. per lots more customers.
 
fxmarkets

never confuse a personal trade with a professional one.

When it is my money I fall into all the terrible practices that I try to tell our clients not to.

When I trade for proprietary positions it is for reasons above my personal opinion.

Spreadbetteur

we are working on it.... it benefits nobody to have a slow trade confirmation system. As I say we confirm in the dealing room almost immediately... the flash based trading platform seems to have a delay in connectivity... we are working on it.... sometime when i do test trades they go through in an instant and other times it takes quite a few seconds.... we will sort it out it is just development time etcc...

Simon
 
At the moment you got GBP.USD and EUR.USD at 3 pip spread. This to me is un balanced, The GBP/USD moves more that the EUR.USD on average for every 15 pips on GBP/USD you get 10 pips on the EUR/USD . To my question, Be first and introduce 2 pips on the EUR/USD.Before the others will, its only a matter of time. This can only make you better,1,you will take more clients from other S/B firms... 2, you will get people to over trade because of the 2 pips spread, so more money for you. Below are a few firms who offer 2 pips on the EUR/USD.I could name more.Untill I see 2 pips with a S/B Firm on the EUR/USD I will carry on trading with CME Futures with 1 pips spread.… come on simon lets see if you will be the first to offer this. 2 PIPS EUR/USD.It makes sense ;)


http://www.afxi.com/

http://www.gfspotfx.com/

http://fxtrade.oanda.com/spreads/

http://www.forexplatforms.com/

http://www.interbankfx.com/index.htm?cp1=yahoosm&cp2=ag2+forex
 
A 2 pip spread Euro would take ove the spread betting market. Simon would dominate.

The only problem might be the increase in customers might slow execution times even more.......oh no.
 
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spreadbet companies cannot lose unless they take a chance themselves-surely the spread is sufficient profit? ALL brokers come unstuck when they try and trade-they should be content with commissions. I thought even the big boys like Ladbrokes laid off their bets somewhere else. You take risks, sometimes you get rewards. I was prepared to spend a day with a spreadbet company,but frankl;y DYOR-it costs us all plenty,and we cannot 'tweak' the market. I forsee a hail of bad publicity and a number of closures as spreadbet companies take bigger chances.
 
hmm, possibly over time, I see it getting more and more competitive which is nothing to fear as dynamic companies will be proactive and change/evolve hence an Idea to create a trading environment which puts the clients in the best possible position spread cost wise to a) realise a profit on the trade b) for the use of the companies excellent low cost dealing the client pays a close out spread of x % on positive trades.
c) only if this can be done (spreadbet companies here) within the current tax legislation that makes it a fair partnership ,if you like , were the close out spread is not levied too high in order not to wipe out the total tax free element.

Over hedging clients or not may still be looked at from a risk perspective on a rolling basis.

If there is or was such a culture as we make our money from creating losing clients , I can see it doing a U turn into.. we treat them very well, because we make even more money because they win .

wasnt there some annual accounts saying the year wasn't so good for a SB because the punters got lucky that year? that is what I see changing... how long... years to go.. but slowly unless the business/industry creates or makes the environment otherwise... or promotes disinformation

Joe public having spreads as tight as commercials or v. large speculators...? yes of course as tight to the bone as they can get... bums on seats, yes sir, thanks for our cut, anything else sir, naked ladies, certainly sir.. :)

who knows, to have the vision of it , is the start of bringing it into being...
 
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