Best Thread Capital Spreads

[capitalspreads]

Jonny T

we do offer 'New Orders' for entry, the closest you can place the order is 5 pips from the current price. Your definition of Stop order entry is not one I can use as Stop Orders have a particular and defined meaning on our platform.

Everybody always says 'it was only a small sized bet so why did you not accept it'.... It seems people suggest that we should treat different clients err differently depending on their size. I am sorry that you were turned down on this bet but FX (and some illiquid shares) is really the only market that we reject. On any trading screen you are at risk of missing a deal if the market moves against you whilst you are attempting to trade. We take thousands of deals a day and in general accept the vast (and I mean vast) majority. But you are right in being annoyed (it always annoys me when the same thing happens) and I can tell you that I get turned down more than 50% of the time when I try to trade with some of our competitors!!

Simon

 

[JonnyT]

Sorry but I've never had such a trade turned down by Deal4Free.

Its was not during a news announcement or anything and the market stayed there whilst I placed the order and got an initial reply.

FX is the most liquid market on the planet so I still fail to see why I wasn't filled, unless of course your quotes are seconds behind the real market?

JonnyT

 

[capitalspreads]

JonnyT

D4F have a policy where all trades below a certain level go thorough automatically. We do not have this policy. Although we are looking at it at the moment. It is amazing how many clients we have who are ex D4F clients !! So in the long run we must be doing something right. Again, a trade rejection is just that nothing more.

We accept or reject trades as they arrive. When our dealers see the price they make an instant judgement and only turn down trades if they are outside the spread as we see it on our trade screens. That is our policy. (and in truth it generally works very well) if a client only ever tries to trade on out ticks then we tend to look at him/her more closely ...

Simon

 

[alt]

SB automated trading?

Hi Simon,
If the development time and cost is a problem, I will be willing to help with the development. I was involved in development of trade blotter for EDF london(Oli, Coal and Swap), the automatic confirmation of the trades, reduced the administrative cost of EDF london by about 90 percent and that was a major cost saving to the Company.

Based on the business benefit, I believe you should look in it, this will free up your staff front and back office to do other important tings.
The components requirement for such is system are the following...
An indication abstraction to determine the market bias long or short to create the trade, automatically, for a given instrument
An abstraction of your current instruments
An abstraction of your trading times , configurable with your opening and closing time , coupled with the London and American session with the ability to add extra session like the Asian session if your were to go 24/7.
An abstraction of the spread with an upper and lower bound acceptable to the trader who want to execute their trade automatically..
These various strategies ,indicator, instrument , calendar and spread will then interrogate your current data feed , which will either execute or return with a message price is no longer valid.

Regards
Alt

 

[stevespray]

I would question whether one or two points are being missed on this subject of automatic trading. Firstly, in my experience, the spreadbetting companies like to be able to introduce a delay in order execution especially when market conditions might favour ‘the punter’. I’m not suggesting that Capital do this but it is certainly something that I have come across on many occasions when dealing with several companies. The fact is that if execution is too good then it is possible for the customer to gain an advantage which might not actually be available in the ‘real market’. This is certainly true if you look at the reaction of the Forex and Futures markets around FOMC Meetings and other key US data releases. The FX companies which offer ‘Guaranteed Limit / Stop Orders’ are a perfect example of that point. They advertise ‘No slippage on stops’ but if you read the small print in the T&C they say that this might not be available in certain market conditions. Of course what they are protecting themselves from is the clever scalper who knows how to set a series of ‘if done’ and ‘one cancels other’ orders which he / she could place when they know there is going to be massive volatility. The fact is that, logically, the times when most people want to trade is when the markets are volatile – You only have to look at the volumes which go through on the high volatility price bars to realise this. Unfortunately this is the moment when market makers (the spreadbetting / CFD companies) are most vulnerable especially if they just let orders get executed automatically. As well as the potential of customers taking advantage of ‘no slippage’ order execution there is also the risk that the company could have a sudden change in the position of its order book – this is obviously another big risk.

Hasn’t anyone ever asked themselves the following question…..Why do the companies suddenly adopt a manual order routing methodology when markets get very busy? These companies clearly have the technology to compare and execute orders via their computers in much quicker time that it takes when trade is completed by ‘manual execution’. One would imagine that the busy times are the times to let the computers take the strain. Implicitly many companies do the opposite in order to reduce order flow – in my own experience this is very financially beneficial for many of the companies (and again I’m not suggesting that Capital do this I’m just summing up a few of my own experiences down the years).

My point is this. If any of the companies introduced the type of ‘automated trading’ which is being suggested then will they not open themselves up to potential risk – that risk being that the automated trading will circumvent the benefit of hindsight which delaying orders gives?

Steve.

 

[Windlesham1]

You expect financial gang rape trading your own account but these spreadbet companies are truly laughable-I shall not be bothering with any of them. The platforms are infantile (on a par with the NHS QOF)in my experience- that's Fatspreads and Etrade so far-CS was next on my list, but if I'm giving money away, I'll choose an appropriate charity. I pay £4 per lot trading options, but at leat I get proper prices, although sometimes my broker takes 30 seconds to get a trade on. The UK sucks really-the city despises the retail players, but in time they'll all be serving us french fries and shakes, when the law actually allows us a level playing field for online trading.

 

[capitalspreads]

Steve
well, yes of course, every one would love the ability to place a nice "close".. "no slip" order just before the Non Farm Payroll figure.. but what fails to be asked in all this is...who is on the other side of the order..???.. in any market there must be a buyer and a seller.

When anybody trades on an FX platform 'Hotspot'.. 'Currenex'.. whatever.... they must be aware that there always has to be somebody on the 'other side' who is also trying to make money out of the deal. "Shock Horror" They are not going to allow a deal that will "guarantee" themselves a loss. Lets face it ...'would you'?

What I love about comments like Windlesham's is what does he mean by a 'level playing field' . Is this the fabled land where clients never have a losing position or if they do it is unfair and somebody else's fault? We have as much information at our disposal as anyone else. We deal in the same markets.. In most cases we trade on pretty much the same spreads and we must wait in line to get our fills along with everyone else. We make no recommendations, give no advice, quote on some 2000 markets worldwide in your own currency and on one platform. What other country in the world currently gives that opportunity? When he makes an options trade who does he think is on the other side? Santa Claus? In the end there must be another person willing to quote a price. And I can tell you this for free... when the going gets tough don't expect a nice cuddly price from the options market. There is, in general, no obligation for marketmakers to quote options at all times ..whereas the SB companies will still be there taking trades and quoting. I can also say that when Trichet came out with his little bombshell a few days ago many of the FX platforms went awol with crossed markets etc, CS was still there, making a price.
Capital Spreads cannot 'move markets', cannot influence investors or unfortunately wave a magic wand making it all better. And by the way.... mine's a Big Mac and Fries!!

All the best everyone...have a good trading day whoever you use

Simon

 

[JonnyT]

To be fair after my first post I have had two orders filled correctly despite the market moving in my favour before I got confirmation.

I still think the order that wasn't accepted was wrong as it wasn't a news event triggered trade just normal movement. Any FX broker or IB IdealPro would have given me a correct fill.

JonnyT

 

[Windlesham1]

<i>What I love about comments like Windlesham's is what does he mean by a 'level playing field' . Is this the fabled land where clients never have a losing position or if they do it is unfair and somebody else's fault? We have as much information at our disposal as anyone else. </i>
When I trade futures on IB, my trades are live in the real market,without the 'spinning ball of indecision' that Fatspreads and Ebygumtrade employ-if Capitalspreads are different, then count me in.

 

[capitalspreads]

windlesham

it is fair to use that comparison.for those who use exchange IB's but you have to also look at market availabilty...and the accessability for the average trader/punter. Our platform is available immediately online without downloads and from whereever you happen to be, worldwide. In general the exchanges also require quite high margins levels and you have to deal in the contract size available. Our average punt size is only £4.75 (and that includes equity bets which tend to be higher size) which on a £4 commission in and out would work out at a wider spread than in most of our quoted markets. Again you have to add in the fact that when you trade on the exchange you have done so with someone who is selling to you. Niether counterparty is a market maker. If you wanted to buy but the market liquidity was not there who would you trade with.

I remember 9/11 when the US exchanges were closed but the SB companies still made a market... with a wide price admittedly.... but they were the only people quoting for a whole week !

 

[Spreadbetteur]

Simon

I recenttly asked you the question "How long is an acceptable delay in trade confirmation" to which you replied with I quote:

"I would generally say that longer than 25 secs is too long but under that is (just about) acceptable."

It seems, to often that Capital Spreads delays trade confirmation then fills only those trades, which have gone against the clients entry position.

With this 'Spinning Ball Of Indecision" the level playing field has dissapeared and the edge, odds, probability or whatever you want to call it is clearly stacked in Capital Spreads favour.

I was a little suprised that you feel that a delay in confimation approaching 25 secs is "just about" OK. I don't think many professional traders would agree. Please can you explain why you believe this is OK ?

Spread

 

[capitalspreads]

spreadbetteur

actually that wasn't quite what I said..... we accept and confirm trades in about 1 or 2 seconds... the time delay is on the internet connectivity... not on the speed of our dealer acceptance... we will be adding an automatic deal acceptance to our platform in the future for various markets.........as I have mentioned before clients are very welcome to come in and see how it all works....

Simon

 

[zuke]

spreadbetteur

actually that wasn't quite what I said..... we accept and confirm trades in about 1 or 2 seconds... the time delay is on the internet connectivity... not on the speed of our dealer acceptance... we will be adding an automatic deal acceptance to our platform in the future for various markets.........as I have mentioned before clients are very welcome to come in and see how it all works....

Simon

Simon,

Please can you tell me when you are going to deal with the vexed question of (Shock Horror!) through the night trading for FX?

Thanks

 

[capitalspreads]

I can see I am going to regret that 'shock horror' comment

the trading systems are being designed as we speak .... but probably won't be ready before jan 1..

simon

 

[zuke]

I can see I am going to regret that 'shock horror' comment

the trading systems are being designed as we speak .... but probably won't be ready before jan 1..

simon

Thanks Simon, will this be for FX only or for other markets?

 

[capitalspreads]

probably just FX

the other markets become too thin for quoting and clients will probably not like being stopped out in the Dow at 2 in the morning on some small volume trade moving the price 10 points. We will be looking at adding a few far east markets though like the Nikkei and Hang Seng and maybe a few Japanese Shares.

Simon

 

[DaveJB]

I have to agree with JonnyT here to a point, possibly from a slightly different angle...
Time isn't a luxury everyone has to spare - you decide 'this' is the signal/setup and it's time to take the trade - to then find anything adding a random 'fill/don't fill' element is going to screw up your plans for world domination. Over time, hopefully, the rejected trades will pan out fairly evenly, but 'will it/won't it' is a complication that simply isn't going to help most people when they've already struggled with the two biggies -
'Up or Down', and
'Far enough to make a profit or not'
Nothing aginst CS here in particular, but delayed or rejected trades should be a phenomenally small percentage of total trades, and highlighting individual examples that don't go to plan would - I hope - encourage CS (and others) to ensure the core essentials are in place... before going on to ensure insomniacs can trade the Hawaiian Pineapple market at 2am, or add the moving average of Hackney Dog track trials times to the charting facility.
I think CS are pretty spiffy, from my limited experience of donating money to their Christmas party fund, but I'd rather have a 101% reliable trading platform from them that processes orders like lightning before they went on to do charting etc which I happily (?) pay for from other sources.
Dave
Edited for speellinge, oddly enough I got Hawaiian right first attempt... it was big words like 'it' I messed up on....

 

[EGO2]

... in any market there must be a buyer and a seller.
...Is this the fabled land where clients never have a losing position or if they do it is unfair and somebody else's fault?
... We have as much information at our disposal as anyone else.
... In the end there must be another person willing to quote a price.
.. .when Trichet came out with his little bombshell a few days ago many of the FX platforms went awol with crossed markets etc, CS was still there, making a price.
Simon

Simon,
Wise words. You seem to take a lot of flak on here, and I just wanted you to know that your comments and the time you spend talking to your users is appreciated. I for one, managed to effortlessly execute a few EUR/USD trades on CS during the recent 'Trichet volatility'. And yes, like all good traders :cheesy: I accept my losses and move on, the trading platform is not to blame!
Cheers,
EGO2

 

[JonnyT]

It's got nothing to do with losses. If I hit the quote and it stays there for a few seconds afterwards I expect to hit the quote.

JonnyT

 

[Spreadbetteur]

Capital Spreads seem to have got slower in confirming trades. This seems to be the main negative issue. Especially, as Spreadbetteur points out, results in a nice filter for Capital Spreads to either fill or "Price Has Expired' trades, depending on the price, when their dealer eventually decides to act. This certainly takes away the level playing field. In fact it makes the field slope dramtically in Capital Spreads favour.

CMC are much faster on execution / confirmation. AC Markets (Retail Broker) always give you the price you click on. CMC offer an instant requote.

Simon - Yesterday you suggested that the delays are part Internet issues. Is your Internet different to CMC or AC Markets ?