Best Thread Capital Spreads

back in the office and found out what happened on the 'spike'.

rather prosiacally a dealer, in adjusting the 'Fair Value' price for the FTSE (the adjustment in the Futures price to get the cash price), made a silly error. It was noticed immediately and all activated loss orders were reversed and clients recompensed. Unfortunately this also means that any sudden 'profits' were also removed (sorry)

Simon
 
hello Simon,

any news if their is a chance of getting the spread on the s&p500 reduced from 4 points to 2 or 3. why is it so high compared to the dow, ftse, dax, cac.

thanks,

breadman
 
breadman

as with the Fair Value explanaition the reason is very boring. The underlying contract is 2.5 pips wide whereas the FTSE CAC and DAX are 0.5 pips wide and the Dow 1 pip.

but we might look at this soon

simon
 
Copied from the Prospreads thread:

Truth Seeker said:
Very interesting....I wondered why they are steep on the spread charges each side, also you have no protection if they go belly up like you do if you trade with a spread betting company in the UK as a retail trader.

Simon, how high can a trader go with trades (£pp) at CS before the games start (larger slippage, dealer referral etc?) Looking at giving CS a go, I trade FX mostly.
Click to expand...

Hmm, Simon didn't answer my question...This can mean a few things..

(1) He missed my question (even though he replied to a question just under mine).
(2) He deliberately didn't reply because once he does whatever he writes in written form can be used in court.
(3) He doesn't want a successful trader eating away at his bottom line profits by knowing the 'bounderies' to keep away from.

So what's to think? Well, I would say as he's obviously not a silly guy, so in my opinion he knows the games go on (slippage/dealer referral etc), and is not willing to share this inside information by replying because it would put future customers off and present customers close their accounts.

So to conclude in my opinion, too not reply is to admit these type of underhand games do infact go on within his company.
Now unless he proves me wrong and states in writing these games do not go on, what else are we expected to conclude?
 
truth seeker

i have stated the answer to your question so many times that i get bored of it.

Winning clients just get put into our A book which means that we hedge them. Not difficult .. even you might be able to understand it... traders who (we believe) just try to scalp price latency issues are the only dealers who get put onto 'dealer acceptance'. If a trade is over a certain size it will also be put to dealer as it may require a hedge to cover.

I have said this so many times on this thread over the years that it bores me. As do statements by people who have absolutely no idea how a professional market making company is run. If we (or any other major SB company) did as you say dont you think some ex employees would be whisleblowing on these threads or to the regulators by now (we have been operating for over 8 years)?

slippage... how?... clients trade a specific price and cannot be filled at a different price (only orders could possibly be slipped and over 99% of all orders with Capital Spreads are executed at their requested price)

dealer referal ? already answered

As it happens we have a huge number of winning retail clients, statistically, when we last did the analysis, a slightly higher percentage win using Capital Spreads than win using DMA derivatives trading (Futures/ECN FX etc). This was from several surveys from the CBOT/CME, University of California(if i remember correctly) and a huge one from Taiwan. But i have also already said this in a previous comment.

Simon
 
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capitalspreads said:
Winning clients just get put into our A book which means that we hedge them. Not difficult .. even you might be able to understand it... traders who (we believe) just try to scalp price latency issues are the only dealers who get put onto 'dealer acceptance'. If a trade is over a certain size it will also be put to dealer as it may require a hedge to cover.
Simon
Click to expand...

Simon

So you are saying that even after you have improved your systems multiple number of times, there are still latency issues? I trade with many brokers where latency is never an issue and it is something you never ever hear them mention. Nor does anyone seem to be on dealer acceptance. Therefore, it's fair to say that it is a problem on your side which will never be resolved.

Also, may I ask why someone who may have been on dealer acceptance years ago and funds his account again after all those years still find himself on dealer acceptance? Is it because you dont have any confidence in your system? Or is it because they have taken money from you in the past and will have to jump the dealer acceptance barrier for life?
 
Pipstr
We do not go over old accounts to reassess them. Unless asked
Systems do get faster but you are confusing DMA with Market maker systems. A DMA system has protection against latency because the price you try to take has Already been taken by someone else so is not available anymore. If one trader offers three contracts at a certain price that is all he can get no matter how many people try to take him. On Market maker systems as many people as can get on can trade at a displayed price.
SB platforms must offer over 3000 markets all on an offer basis NOT on the first come first served basis of DMA. This makes it much more critical on timing
Re speeds our systems are much faster than in the past but we still see no reason to just give money away to someone who just trades on issues rather than actually trades via conviction. No Market maker allows this across the whole world . Why would u think that spread betting companies should be any different.

On our ECN FX platform which is ultra fast the Market makers (who are the major Fx liquidity providers on the planet) also bar certain clients from trading (mainly Algos). They certainly have incredibly fast systems but these are still slower than some of the algo engines.

If a client is returning to capital spreads then they can ask about deal acceptance. You never know

Simon
 
Pipstr
We do not go over old accounts to reassess them. Unless asked
Systems do get faster but you are confusing DMA with Market maker systems. A DMA system has protection against latency because latency trading just does not exist. If the price you try to take has already been taken by someone else it is not available to you to trade anymore. If one trader offers three contracts at a certain price that is all he can get no matter how many people try to take him.

On Market maker systems as many people as can click 'trade' on a displayed price will get accepted instantly (or put through to dealer acceptance).

SB platforms must offer over 3000 markets all on an 'offer basis' NOT on the first come first served basis of DMA. This makes it much more critical on timing.

Re speeds our systems are much faster than in the past but we still see no reason to just give money away to someone who just trades on issues rather than actually trades via conviction. No Market maker allows this across the whole world . Why would u think that spread betting companies should be any different.

On our ECN Currenex FX platform which is ultra fast the Market Makers (who are the major Fx liquidity providers on the planet... we do not add our own liquidity) also bar certain clients from trading (mainly Algos). They certainly have incredibly fast pricing systems but these are still slower than some of the algo engines.

If a client is returning to Capital Spreads then they can ask about deal acceptance. You never know

Simon
 
Last edited:
capitalspreads said:
Pipstr
We do not go over old accounts to reassess them. Unless asked
Systems do get faster but you are confusing DMA with Market maker systems. A DMA system has protection against latency because latency trading just does not exist. If the price you try to take has already been taken by someone else it is not available to you to trade anymore. If one trader offers three contracts at a certain price that is all he can get no matter how many people try to take him.

On Market maker systems as many people as can click 'trade' on a displayed price will get accepted instantly (or put through to dealer acceptance).

SB platforms must offer over 3000 markets all on an 'offer basis' NOT on the first come first served basis of DMA. This makes it much more critical on timing.

Re speeds our systems are much faster than in the past but we still see no reason to just give money away to someone who just trades on issues rather than actually trades via conviction. No Market maker allows this across the whole world . Why would u think that spread betting companies should be any different.

On our ECN Currenex FX platform which is ultra fast the Market Makers (who are the major Fx liquidity providers on the planet... we do not add our own liquidity) also bar certain clients from trading (mainly Algos). They certainly have incredibly fast pricing systems but these are still slower than some of the algo engines.

If a client is returning to Capital Spreads then they can ask about deal acceptance. You never know

Simon
Click to expand...
Latency issue is no excuse to discriminate a specific client. Manipulation is illegal according to The MiFID. Simon, why don't you answered me why you don't close an account instead of discriminating certain clients? I have repeated this question several times and I have still not gotten an answer from you.


____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
gle

we could close an account but we leave it up to the client. Mifid is not quite as you describe, Capital Spreads offers a price, a client can trade on that price but at the end of the day (as we are the market maker) it is up to us whether to accept a trade or not.

i would not get too upset about it .. we have no problem with winning clients, (we would have a bit of a problem if we did....as clients were net winners over the January) if winners were that much of a problem then we would have put all clients onto dealer acceptance!

all we are worried about are clients who trade multiple times a day... 20/30 deals a day ...day after day after day. 99pc of our clients are not this type of client

simon
 
capitalspreads said:
gle

we could close an account but we leave it up to the client. Mifid is not quite as you describe, Capital Spreads offers a price, a client can trade on that price but at the end of the day (as we are the market maker) it is up to us whether to accept a trade or not.

i would not get too upset about it .. we have no problem with winning clients, (we would have a bit of a problem if we did....as clients were net winners over the January) if winners were that much of a problem then we would have put all clients onto dealer acceptance!

all we are worried about are clients who trade multiple times a day... 20/30 deals a day ...day after day after day. 99pc of our clients are not this type of client

simon
Click to expand...
I agree, I have found over the years that this is not really a problem with CS, but it is this attitude that the market makers runs the show and are allowed to act as they please in order stop certain type of client. This is not the case, in fact there are regulations at hand to follow and discrimination is simply not allowed. Some of the financial SB companies are acting worse than the gambling industry in general, and this will stop the industry from progressing to the next level in order to be competitive in reference to other financial services that will emerge.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
capitalspreads said:
all we are worried about are clients who trade multiple times a day... 20/30 deals a day ...day after day after day. 99pc of our clients are not this type of client

simon
Click to expand...

A bit of a bombshell if you're worried about people who trade 20/30 times a day! 99% of your clients make fewer than that? Are you really saying you don't want people who make more than a couple of trades in an hour? If so, that makes nonsense of the idea that SB providers make their money from the spread.
Previously you've said that you don't want clients who trade on latency, and I can sympathise with that, but surely your platform doesn't lag by 30m?
 
Can someone please confirm how much "dividend" was added/removed per position on FTSE 100 rolling daily today on IGindex/Capitalspreads?
 
ross

tongue in cheek i guess !.... i was trying to give some sort of indication. I should have been more exact and said.... clients who trade 20/30 times a day but never hold a position for longer than a few seconds (or occasionally a minute if the latency allowed them to get on a directional move)

In the long run these clients are easy to spot. In normal business every client trade has a 50/50 chance of winning from the moment of execution.. (after all markets can only go in one of two directions... up or down! ) ... if we get a client who trades over and over again but never makes a loss (i.e his worse trades are scratch or maybe a pip down) then the law of probability comes into play. It is impossible to call the toss of a coin ten..twenty times in a row. If a client exhibits this ability then... surprise surprise we suspect something.

Nowadays we just dont get that much of this but rather than say that we always accept every trade it is better for me to be honest and say that there are just some clients that we just dont want. It is no big deal... the client has not lost ... and he is quite at liberty to move to another company.

maybe they will allow his shenanigans... but from the fuss made on the various threads i get the impression that most of our competitors are equally as unsympathetic. True dealers should have no concerns but if your entire strategy is based upon ripping off your provider then (i am really sorry) but i do not see why anyone should put up with it.

These types of dealers are not 'good' they are just 'fast'. I note that none of them seem to survive when we offer to put them onto our DMA systems... where they will actually have to trade versus ECN market makers.... and by 'none' i mean 'none' not even a solitary 'exception that proves the rule'.

simon
 
trader 9281

the divvy adjustment tonite will be about 7.5 points... Capital Spreads will remove this between 23.30-23.45

IG remove it at 16.30 (on the cash market close) we remove it later at the end of the day.

simon
 
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hacks

but how many of them went in and out after a few seconds day after day...

do the maths..2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2:1 i.e 1024 to one after one day

then 1 million to one after two .....

1 billion after three

lightbulb moment

simon
 
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