Best Thread Capital Spreads

[gle101]

If you answer your own questions what u need me for ?

I didn't answer my own question. A misunderstanding maybe.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

 

[c6ackp]

wait till you start winning with them. then they'll slip you.

i took 50k from cap spreads a few years ago over about three months and they then started slipping me daily - spoke to them and they more or less said take your business elsewhere. i did.

It's up to fxwinner22 to explain exactly what happened here - fxwinner22 obviously has a story to tell - I remember this episode from a few years ago and I seem to remember that fxwinner22 was trading cable, not illiquid stocks... It is possible that fxwinner22 was trading latency at that time - you only need a small edge to do very well in this business...

The bigger picture is that Simon and others have finally figured out that offering a fair game is still extremely profitable...

 

[gle101]

gle101,

I think that it is highly unlikely that spread betting will become taxable (against the clients) in the UK.

The distinction between DMA and spread betting is that with DMA the client enters into a contract with the counter-party to deliver something with an unknown future but tangible price. With spread betting there is no legal obligation to deliver anything other than cover debts as the bet is on the movement of a price irrespective of how it is generated.

The UK tax system extracts a fairly sizeable revenue from spread betting and is right in treating it as a betting tax which I guess in built into the SB companies pricing model and paid as the bet is taken out.

I feel sure that the vast percentage of betters lose and even for those that win , there is no way they would take on the spread and having to trade buying ask and selling bid and then pay capital gains tax on profits.

Without the tax free status Spread betting would contract into oblivion for many of the companies.

I get your point but I woudn't bet on it to be 100% save. I know for a fact some EU countries have their eye set on spread betting. They are questioning if not SB products could in fact be regarded as a financial instrument. Please do not ask me which countries.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

 

[Traduk]

I get your point but I woudn't bet on it to be 100% save. I know for a fact some EU countries have their eye set on spread betting. They are questioning if not SB products could in fact be regarded as a financial instrument. Please do not ask me which countries.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

I think EU countries should be more interested generating real growth rather than looking around for easy pickings.

In various discussions over Tobin tax (transaction tax) your country, I believe has the only precedent of implementation which led to failure of projected income followed by a decline in other taxes (capital gains) followed by abolishment of the tax. It was a failure for Sweden and would be wherever else implemented unless global.

A punitive tax, directed at clients, on spread betting would almost certainly destroy the revenue received from the tax extracted from the spread betting by reducing or destroying the SB companies through the exodus of clients.

UK tax laws are very strange regarding trading even at DMA level. The authorities are reluctant to allow traders in general to become self employed traders for fear that deductible costs can spiral up to levels whereby large gains are offset. It is much more common for trading profits to be treated as capital gains which constrains costs to the annual allowance.

 

[gle101]

I think EU countries should be more interested generating real growth rather than looking around for easy pickings.

In various discussions over Tobin tax (transaction tax) your country, I believe has the only precedent of implementation which led to failure of projected income followed by a decline in other taxes (capital gains) followed by abolishment of the tax. It was a failure for Sweden and would be wherever else implemented unless global.

A punitive tax, directed at clients, on spread betting would almost certainly destroy the revenue received from the tax extracted from the spread betting by reducing or destroying the SB companies through the exodus of clients.

UK tax laws are very strange regarding trading even at DMA level. The authorities are reluctant to allow traders in general to become self employed traders for fear that deductible costs can spiral up to levels whereby large gains are offset. It is much more common for trading profits to be treated as capital gains which constrains costs to the annual allowance.

Sweden is different, if they see a possibility to tax a growing sector they will. This could even be despite the sector already been taxed in another EU country (it will result in a double taxation).

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

 

[Traduk]

Sweden is different, if they see a possibility to tax a growing sector they will. This could even be despite the sector already been taxed in another EU country (it will result in a double taxation).

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

I would have thought that they had learned from their 1980's experience

I have only recently taken much interest in spread betting although I have had accounts (for hedging) with spread betters for years. I must admit that I was surprised to see the nationality range of people using the UK spread betters but as I use Dollar accounts with US brokers for DMA, it is a small world.

We may be slightly at cross purposes because we all have reconciliation with tax within our home country irrespective of where or in what currency that money is earned.

I doubt that the UK will change SB tax laws because of the risk of killing that source of revenue. Many of the spread betters also undertake more conventional gambling (sports etc) and in the past the UK has messed around with gambling taxation laws with often detrimental outcomes for revenue. I think that what works is probably best not fixed

If other countries decide to tax proceeds upon repatriation of profits then that is a country's choice.

 

[gle101]

Waiting for the introductory of the 1 point spread on the Dow. Simon, anything about when it will become a reality?

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html

 

[Dick Lexic]

hi guys, haven't read this thread but i wondered if anyone on here from capital spreads would like to comment on the spike that appeared and then disappeared from the charts this morning. see attached

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

hi guys, haven't read this thread but i wondered if anyone on here from capital spreads would like to comment on the spike that appeared and then disappeared from the charts this morning. see attached

the SB did it's own little flash crash. kerching

 

[dealer911]

hi guys, haven't read this thread but i wondered if anyone on here from capital spreads would like to comment on the spike that appeared and then disappeared from the charts this morning. see attached

Just looks like a bad print to me - if you got stopped out on that move I would ask to be put back in the trade - charts are indicative only.. if you were trying to buy down there and your trade was busted then too bad as the market never actually traded at that level! - if your having an issue about it ask to see time and sales from reuters or bloomberg. (FYI i am not capital spreads nor affiliated)

 

[Shaun12uk]

Bit of a Barmy day at CS today - why are they quoting FTSE100 at 5904.5 compared to IG and ETX at 5883 as I am typing this at 16:43!

 

[PualoP]

Bit of a Barmy day at CS today - why are they quoting FTSE100 at 5904.5 compared to IG and ETX at 5883 as I am typing this at 16:43!

Consider it an initiative test, really really think about it newbie

 

[JanisJ]

hi guys, haven't read this thread but i wondered if anyone on here from capital spreads would like to comment on the spike that appeared and then disappeared from the charts this morning. see attached

Hi, I have only been trading with CS for a short time and at 8am I had a 10 point sell trade at 5888. This spike happened at 8.05 and I closed the trade at £927 profit. However within an hour I got a call from them to tell me that they were taking the money back as the market didnt actually trade at that price. Like you I was wondering where it went on the charts and also if people lost money was it reimbursed?

 

[reksa]

Hi, I have only been trading with CS for a short time and at 8am I had a 10 point sell trade at 5888. This spike happened at 8.05 and I closed the trade at £927 profit. However within an hour I got a call from them to tell me that they were taking the money back as the market didnt actually trade at that price. Like you I was wondering where it went on the charts and also if people lost money was it reimbursed?

What a joke

 

[Shaun12uk]

Consider it an initiative test, really really think about it newbie

Either the other 2 SB's were wrong on price which I doubt or Capital Spreads were deterring overnight positions with that price, and I believe it was the latter.

Correct me if I am wrong!

 

[reksa]

Either the other 2 SB's were wrong on price which I doubt or Capital Spreads were deterring overnight positions with that price, and I believe it was the latter.

Correct me if I am wrong!

Here's a clue 'ex div'

 

[Shaun12uk]

Do all other firms charge 'ex div' for holding overnight positions on Tues/Wed or just cap spreads? If all other SB's apply the same ex div then this does not explain the 23 pip difference between CS and IG or ETX.

Maybe someone at CS could explain the difference when market moves to futures.

 

[fast trader7]

Do all other firms charge 'ex div' for holding overnight positions on Tues/Wed or just cap spreads? If all other SB's apply the same ex div then this does not explain the 23 pip difference between CS and IG or ETX.

Maybe someone at CS could explain the difference when market moves to futures.

Hello
If you have noticed this 'ex -div' with all the SB companies.... It is the same thing. Some SBs apply at 4;30 (like IG) and some at 10-12 at night. The difference will be minimum if you look at the price at midnight. however if you try to take advantage of the price difference... it hardly works, i have done it all

 

[capitalspreads]

the answer has been made for me on the price difference

CS take the FTSE dividend out at around 2330 whereas some of our competitors do it at 1630 . The reason we do this is to stop a sudden shift in the "in play" price of our Rolling Daily price at quite a busy time of the day! As we do not quote a Daily Cash Market (i.e one that just lasts one day) we do not need to ensure that the "Rolling" price is in line with the "Cash" price. Therefore we like to do the ex-div on the indices at the same time as the div payments on the shares and the rolling charge/payment on overnight positions.

i.e all of the adjustments at the same time rather than at seperate times through the day.

we certainly were not biasing the price to stop overnight buying/selling something that we never do.

i have been away all week so am not sure what caused the price spike but it looks pretty clear that it was just a rogue print. Any client stopped out would have been recredited.

Simon

 

[capitalspreads]

concerning the tobin tax issue it is not clear how it would affect Spread Betting if it were implemented. Politicians play to the ignorance of the 'masses' in their attempts to say it would have little effect.

They are saying the they would charge derivatives at 0.01% of underlying value but this is plainly mad if it were to be applied to derivatives because the underlying value is huge compared to ordinary Equity trading. A charge of this size is effectively saying 'close down all futures trading in Europe'

If applied to Spread Betting a £5 bet on the FTSE would cost a client 0.01x5x5900/100 or £2.95. So a round trip would cost more that the actual spread (2x2.95 or £5.90)! And this is for the FTSE which is quite a small number. A £5 round trip on the S&P would cost £13.60.

CS does not actually make this much on each trade so the Tax would be greater than the entire income of the company (not the profit, more than the entire gross revenue before any costs at all). We calculate that on current volumes the Tobin tax as presented would cost around £200,000 per day to CS. Far more that we make.

In the DMA World currently a trader using FTSE Futures will pay around a 2 quid (maybe a bit more/less) for a round trip. A 0.01% Tobin Fee would be about £12 . So a broking firm would be collecting a tax some five to six times times bigger than their revenue on each trade.

The problem is that European Politicians just do not understand what they are talking about or (worse) they are deliberately creating friction to appease thier electorates in the knowledge that the UK could never agree to it.

It is plainly ridiculous to promote a tax which is more that the entire revenues of companies for a discretionary product. Companies would immediately move to a more favorable jurisdiction.

Simon