Best Thread Capital Spreads

6am said:
Why impossible? With sufficient knowledge and determination you could implement your own auto trading support.

Simon, is it possible for the client to check if the trade will be reffered or not before he actually tries to make a trade? Maybe add some indicator to the ticket so that your intentions to refer trades to a dealer are transparent.
Click to expand...

How about a little skull & crossbones or evil eye icon?

re. the 'scalping' (even though it isn't really, as gle said) problem, I think every SB I've traded with has put some sort of delay or price rejection on my account as soon as I've made a series of winning trades in a short time. All the platforms I've tried have worked perfectly when I make plenty of losing trades, though. Has any losing client ever been put on dealer referral, even if they make hundreds of trades?
 
dealer911 said:
Why would anyone want to scalp using a spread betting platform ? - Why not use DMA - You need to be able to trade "at market" when scalping and you need the market depth -- If the SB doesnt want that kind of business why not just go elsewhere ? - why even bother complaining about it ? - unless your edge is purely latency based in which case the SB has the right to take that edge away from you - Not really in the business of defending SB co's but some retail traders expectations are far from reasonable..trade the real market and see what trades you can get done in a fast market.. see what genuine slippage looks like!
Click to expand...
You are right, a scalper can go elsewhere and should do so if referred to a dealer. But this discussion is not actually about a scalping as such, but about SB intervention based on practice which is not allowed by the MiFID. I am sick and tired hearing excuses from SB representatives, referring latency as rightful cause for flagging a client. The SB are not allowed to manipulate individual account from a latency standpoint. I have been trading the "real" market quite a lot and knows all about it.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
wzero said:
I don't think it is possible to trade latency on CS web platform, because it has no integrated chart and it doesn't support auto trading, thus it's impossible to identify (if) any latency either by eyes or by software. Note the CS chart is a separate software its price may not match the price on ticket. It has no program interface thus you can not identify any latency electronically neither.
Click to expand...
Well actually this is not altogether correct. You can use an external price feed and order depth service (most experienced SB traders do) and use this to decide when to trade.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
dealer911 said:
Why would anyone want to scalp using a spread betting platform ? - Why not use DMA - You need to be able to trade "at market" when scalping and you need the market depth -- If the SB doesnt want that kind of business why not just go elsewhere ? - why even bother complaining about it ? - unless your edge is purely latency based in which case the SB has the right to take that edge away from you - Not really in the business of defending SB co's but some retail traders expectations are far from reasonable..trade the real market and see what trades you can get done in a fast market.. see what genuine slippage looks like!
Click to expand...

Could not have put it better myself.
 
gle101 said:
You are right, a scalper can go elsewhere and should do so if referred to a dealer. But this discussion is not actually about a scalping as such, but about SB intervention based on practice which is not allowed by the MiFID. I am sick and tired hearing excuses from SB representatives, referring latency as rightful cause for flagging a client. The SB are not allowed to manipulate individual account from a latency standpoint. I have been trading the "real" market quite a lot and knows all about it.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
Click to expand...

Surely CS would be running into some problems right now if they weren't complying with MFID ? - Why dont you raise it with the ombudsman ? I've been on dealer referal myself in the past.. my strategy was to watch the underlying markets move and pick off SB's slow prices.. it was brilliant! - free money while it lasted! -- I didnt whine when they caught up with me and put me on referal.. just moved on! -- this was a few years ago (pre MIFID)-- never complain never explain thats my motto! - have traded through SB co's since then .. they are fine for longer term positions but I would not bother if i was holding stuff for sub 30 seconds..it's the wrong venue for that kind of trading. Yes you are right it could make good business sense for the SB's to welcome scalpers and let them blow up but probably not worth the agro.
 
6am said:
Simon, is it possible for the client to check if the trade will be reffered or not before he actually tries to make a trade? Maybe add some indicator to the ticket so that your intentions to refer trades to a dealer are transparent.
Click to expand...
They cannot do that that because they are not allowed to "discriminate" cients according to the MiFID "Best execution" directive. I don't understand why Simon defend this practice, as it seem, at least according to my experience not a problem trading with them.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
dealer911 said:
Surely CS would be running into some problems right now if they weren't complying with MFID ? - Why dont you raise it with the ombudsman ? I've been on dealer referal myself in the past.. my strategy was to watch the underlying markets move and pick off SB's slow prices.. it was brilliant! - free money while it lasted! -- I didnt whine when they caught up with me and put me on referal.. just moved on! -- this was a few years ago (pre MIFID)-- never complain never explain thats my motto! - have traded through SB co's since then .. they are fine for longer term positions but I would not bother if i was holding stuff for sub 30 seconds..it's the wrong venue for that kind of trading. Yes you are right it could make good business sense for the SB's to welcome scalpers and let them blow up but probably not worth the agro.
Click to expand...
I agree from a traders perspective, but for the sake of discussing the industry and its progression, we can look at it from a different viewpoint. The MiFID regulators hasn't caught up yet with the SB industry. The latency is not really a big problem today for the SB, the price feed is much faster today, compared to that of just a couple of years ago. The problem is, they can refer to latency as a course of flagging a client, even if the latency problem isn't really the main cause for intervening.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
gle101 said:
I agree from a traders perspective, but for the sake of discussing the industry and its progression, we can look at it from a different viewpoint. The MiFID regulators hasn't caught up yet with the SB industry. The latency is not really a big problem today for the SB, the price feed is much faster today, compared to that of just a couple of years ago. The problem is, they can refer to latency as a course of flagging a client, even if the latency problem isn't really the main cause for intervening.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
Click to expand...

Yes it's all a bit unclear still with regard to Spread Betting - As it stands the SB is a counterparty to the trade - they are not executing on your behalf and therefore best execution doesn't apply (i know that sounds wrong but it's the way it is)
if the powers that be decide that best x does need to apply to the spread betting houses it will be a game changer.. the technology is there so should be easier than a few years back.. until that point if I want to use a broker i'll go DMA - and if I dont mind a counterparty then the spread betting company will do just fine
 
dealer911 said:
Yes it's all a bit unclear still with regard to Spread Betting - As it stands the SB is a counterparty to the trade - they are not executing on your behalf and therefore best execution doesn't apply (i know that sounds wrong but it's the way it is)
if the powers that be decide that best x does need to apply to the spread betting houses it will be a game changer.. the technology is there so should be easier than a few years back.. until that point if I want to use a broker i'll go DMA - and if I dont mind a counterparty then the spread betting company will do just fine
Click to expand...
Sorry, but after reading the MiFID documents I can't agree with you. CS has also in this regard publicly agreed to follow the MiFID directives.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/pla...140296-visualrmm-interactive-new-concept.html
 
this is getting wierder... i have made it quite clear the type of client that we put to DA (i.e. a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of our clients) but everyone keeps indicating that this is somehow turning CS into an 'evil empire'.

to suit the pedants on this thread i will also try to remember to stop calling these clients 'scalpers' and refer to them as 'latency traders'.

it is also so nice to see how all of these people who know absolutly nothing about running a retail Market Making business all seem to agree on how simple it is. And advise me as to how to run my risk.

As most of you seem to completely unaware only a tiny number of the current SB/CFD providers is profitable. Of which Capital Spreads/LCG is one. Not everyone can be the biggest or even the best but LCG is getting there.

Simon
 
tar

yes but MF global also had several billions of client monies and hundreds of millions of their own funds. But much of the money was not protected as some have commented on other threads on T2W. All LCG retail client funds and net winnings (every single penny) are segregated with the major UK high street banks in accounts that are legally desgnated as such and these cannot be used by LCG for any reason.

this limits our growth potential but makes client security a reality rather than a matter of trust.


Simon
 
dealer911 said:
Yes it's all a bit unclear still with regard to Spread Betting - As it stands the SB is a counterparty to the trade - they are not executing on your behalf and therefore best execution doesn't apply (i know that sounds wrong but it's the way it is)
if the powers that be decide that best x does need to apply to the spread betting houses it will be a game changer.. the technology is there so should be easier than a few years back.. until that point if I want to use a broker i'll go DMA - and if I dont mind a counterparty then the spread betting company will do just fine
Click to expand...

SB T&Cs refer to best execution, though.
 
Simon

Is there any latency on the Capital Spreads platform or is it as fast as the best providers?

If there is latency, then it's a never ending problem on your side. If there is no latency then no one should be on dealer referral. Or are you these days just making up this latency issue to ban some winners?
 
capitalspreads said:
tar

yes but MF global also had several billions of client monies and hundreds of millions of their own funds. But much of the money was not protected as some have commented on other threads on T2W. All LCG retail client funds and net winnings (every single penny) are segregated with the major UK high street banks in accounts that are legally desgnated as such and these cannot be used by LCG for any reason.

this limits our growth potential but makes client security a reality rather than a matter of trust.


Simon
Click to expand...

Goodmorning

MFglobal clients funds should be/was held at a segregated bank accounts as well . I remember a couple of years ago you ( and other SBs ) changed your T&C's to allow holding clients funds outside the UK and the EEA ...
 
PipStar said:
Simon

Is there any latency on the Capital Spreads platform or is it as fast as the best providers?

If there is latency, then it's a never ending problem on your side. If there is no latency then no one should be on dealer referral. Or are you these days just making up this latency issue to ban some winners?
Click to expand...
There is latency in every platform, the real market solves this naturally by first in first served, at times resulting in slippage. The latency problem these days with SB is not as big of a problem as Simon tends to let us know, but there could be a problem with fixed spread in a very volatile market.

____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
Planning, Risk & Money Management
 
tar

I answered that particular point a few years ago. The point about where client money is held is that it must conform to FSA CASS requirements. i.e only a certain percent in each bank, high short term credit rating etc etc

If funds are held abroad you cannot get CASS approval and therefore it cannot be used for segregated client funds or qualify for FSCS etc. LCG holds all client funds in the UK with very high security institutions (remember we would be at risk as well if somebody went t*ts up) .

The problem with MF (as it transpired) was that they actually took prop risk on thier own behalf as well as being a broker. I am pretty sure that nearly 100% of their clients was unaware of this. This is where the SB companies that are UK companies (not the ones that are minor units of foreign corporates) all have the advantage. The big four all operate nearly entirely as Market Maker/brokers and are not trying to be the next 'goldman sachs'.

Pipstar

our systems are very fast indeed these day but as mentioned by gle101 we are not an exchange so whilst on an exchange you might see a price that you cannot get (as someone else got it first) we have to operate under a different criteria. Generally if you trade a price you will get it (over 99% of trade requests with Capital Spreads are filled at the price requested). Even those on dealer approval will generally get the deal they want.

I have traded on a huge array of platforms in my time and each has its good and bad points. DMA (in all its guises) has the ability to put a price 'mid market' and you can see depth but to be honest i always think this sits under the heading of "dont be a dick for a tick" , if you want to buy.. then buy ...do not try to get one or two pips better. The problem with trying to get that extra pip is that ..in the end .... that 1 pip is all you will get but if the market starts to move away from you... you will either fail to get a deal done at all or you will increase your loss/decrease your profit dramatically ... and all for the sake of trying for one more pip

this does not mean do not put orders in a your designated support/resistance levels .. just dont always try to squeeze every last ounce out of a price.. in the end it nearly always costs you money

Simon
 
capitalspreads said:
truth seeker

i have stated the answer to your question so many times that i get bored of it.

Winning clients just get put into our A book which means that we hedge them. Not difficult .. even you might be able to understand it... traders who (we believe) just try to scalp price latency issues are the only dealers who get put onto 'dealer acceptance'. If a trade is over a certain size it will also be put to dealer as it may require a hedge to cover.

I have said this so many times on this thread over the years that it bores me. As do statements by people who have absolutely no idea how a professional market making company is run. If we (or any other major SB company) did as you say dont you think some ex employees would be whisleblowing on these threads or to the regulators by now (we have been operating for over 8 years)?

slippage... how?... clients trade a specific price and cannot be filled at a different price (only orders could possibly be slipped and over 99% of all orders with Capital Spreads are executed at their requested price)

dealer referal ? already answered

As it happens we have a huge number of winning retail clients, statistically, when we last did the analysis, a slightly higher percentage win using Capital Spreads than win using DMA derivatives trading (Futures/ECN FX etc). This was from several surveys from the CBOT/CME, University of California(if i remember correctly) and a huge one from Taiwan. But i have also already said this in a previous comment.

Simon
Click to expand...

Simon you don't need to get rude - that's very unprofessional and uncalled for IMHO. I've been in this business for many years, full-time for 8 and I'm still here, I've yet to give your company a go because up to now I haven't seen anything I can work with (not a very trader friendly platform, cheap clumsy charts etc) to make me want to give up some of my time and take some of your money, that's why I asked my questions up front as I'm considering adding to my wealth from your company accounts. I do not have the time or energy to trawl through this entire thread to see if you have already answered a question I wish to ask you, get realistic. I asked you valid questions.

Regarding your whistle-blowing comment, I take it you don't get your employees to sign a declaration to not divulge what goes on in your company whilst and after employment?
And your 99% of trades get filled at the price requested reply, have you got proof of this I can see?

So from your response leading from my question and what others have asked, you pick and choose your clients. If you want a client to leave you make their trades impossible with dealer referral because you are not playing straight and the way you cover your underhand tactics is to mention 'latency'.
That's not good advertising for new clients is it? So according to what I have read on this thread, if you have slower type traders maybe swing traders, again you didn't answer my question on this, or the question of how much can I bet with you (pounds per point) before the usual sb 'games' start (dealer referral, exaggerated slippage etc) you will hedge their positions, but if you have day traders who trade more that 20/30 trades per day not holding their trade for a set amount of time, you will make their life a misery until they leave?
Am I correct here?
If I ran your company I would simply follow the winners and make money off their decisions as you're supposed to be getting money from the spread and hedging trades and you did say you welcome winners - you would be winning by two methods, and I would just let the losers carry on losing and take their money as you do now.

I look forward to your reply, if no reply I will then see what is going on here as will others who do not wear blinkers and are serious about making money as I am.
 
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