Best Thread Capital Spreads

[Black Swan]

black swan

40 bets a day ... day after day... will flag you up to the dealers... sorry but that is the fact of the matter... they will generally analyse the time in position but may not make an average.... if enough of the trades are suspicious then...... sorry

as mentioned by many commentators here ... they move to another SB and the same thing happens ..over and over.... if you read the other threads it is a common issue. To continue the analogy with regular gaming .. a continued winner on the gee gees is just barred.. we just make it difficult to scalp a moving price.

and before anyone asks... we do occasionally put clients back onto auto accept ...after the client makes impasioned pleas... only for the client to pull the same tricks again...

systems get faster and faster but there will always be that tiny delay which leaves us open to abuse. Please do not be so quick to accuse the market maker...we always do our best to quote in good faith....perhaps look at yourself first.

I have to assume that all the people who continually use the Mifid 'best execution' argument have never actually read the full Mifid document on the matter. Best execution does not mean that we must accept trades no matter what..

Simon

Interesting that you use the word/s "suspicious" and "same tricks again". This term 'scalper' is now being devisively used as a derogatory term to cover/describe profitable SB day-traders (en masse) whatever time frame they work in/to...

With correct TA, discipline and MM (and no tricks) it is entirely legitimate that a day trader can be in and out of trades quickly and profitably simply by following 'the rules' and adopting a plan that involves all the usal disciplines applied within a good trading plan.

40 trades a day, with ten losers and 30 winnners, is not breaking any rules, or do you not accept that some SB day traders are simply very good at what they do?

 

[Black Swan]

From the SB Dictionary (Concise Edition):

scalper, n. Client who places more than five trades a day over any period exceeding a week while also increasing account balance.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

Interesting that you use the word/s "suspicious" and "same tricks again". This term 'scalper' is now being devisively used as a derogatory term to cover/describe profitable SB day-traders (en masse) whatever time frame they work in/to...

With correct TA, discipline and MM (and no tricks) it is entirely legitimate that a day trader can be in and out of trades quickly and profitably simply by following 'the rules' and adopting a plan that involves all the usal disciplines applied within a good trading plan.

40 trades a day, with ten losers and 30 winnners, is not breaking any rules, or do you not accept that some SB day traders are simply very good at what they do?

Well put, Black Swan.

Slightly OT, but isn't it ironic that if spreadbetting hadn't become so popular in the UK we'd probably be able to trade DA futures with low commissions, as in America?
Incidentally, I wonder if those who're branded as scalpers are automatically welcomed at LCG's Prospreads offshoot,?

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

black swan

40 bets a day ... day after day... will flag you up to the dealers... sorry but that is the fact of the matter... they will generally analyse the time in position but may not make an average.... if enough of the trades are suspicious then...... sorry

as mentioned by many commentators here ... they move to another SB and the same thing happens

Simon

GFT claim that they don't mind frequent traders (based on the dubious notion that they make their profit from the spread).

 

[Black Swan]

Well put, Black Swan.

Slightly OT, but isn't it ironic that if spreadbetting hadn't become so popular in the UK we'd probably be able to trade DA futures with low commissions, as in America?
Incidentally, I wonder if those who're branded as scalpers are automatically welcomed at LCG's Prospreads offshoot,?

Good points, here's a thing; trading cable this morning from 7 am, 6 trades 2 losers (on average a trade every 40 minutes). Up 180 pips trading off 5 min chart (supplied foc by SB company). Average time in losing trade 30 mins (or stop whichever comes sooner) longest trade circa 40 mins - 10:05 - 10:45.

Some days better, some days worse, no tricks, no suspicions, simply playing the game on offer with good discipline, MM and TA...where's 'the harm' or wrong doing?

 

[gle101]

Well put, Black Swan.

Slightly OT, but isn't it ironic that if spreadbetting hadn't become so popular in the UK we'd probably be able to trade DA futures with low commissions, as in America?
Incidentally, I wonder if those who're branded as scalpers are automatically welcomed at LCG's Prospreads offshoot,?

Branding scalpers is a dilemma for the SB industry, it clearly goes against the spirit of the MiFID "Best execution" directive. The industry will eventually have to adopt. Maybe self regulation is not enough to make the industry adopt to the new times ahead. In that case they will have to look forward to stricter regulation.

Of course they are all welcome to join Prospreads.

 

[ffsear]

why don't you scalpers go DMA and stop bloody crying!

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

Good points, here's a thing; trading cable this morning from 7 am, 6 trades 2 losers (on average a trade every 40 minutes). Up 180 pips trading off 5 min chart (supplied foc by SB company). Average time in losing trade 30 mins (or stop whichever comes sooner) longest trade circa 40 mins - 10:05 - 10:45.

Some days better, some days worse, no tricks, no suspicions, simply playing the game on offer with good discipline, MM and TA...where's 'the harm' or wrong doing?

Six trades in a morning?! Flogging is too good for people who behave in such a dastardly manner. You're obviously completely evil and should be ashamed of yourself. Have you considered easing your conscience by making a sizeable donation to the LCG Executive Benevolent Fund?

 

[gle101]

why don't you scalpers go DMA and stop bloody crying!

Simply because, many prefer SB in front of DMA. All traders is not suited to trade DMA, with the margin and stakes that is required on some of the instruments. SB also give a wide range of products with high leverage to choose from and without paying any tax on the profit.

 

[PipStar]

Of course they are all welcome to join Prospreads.

I dont know whether they are welcomed. What I do know is that if you are on refer to dealer with Capital Spreads and you open an account with another LCG outfit like Etrade, they place the new account on manual execution straight away before you have even placed your first trade.

So if you've tried them once you don't stand a chance of automatic execution again in any SB name they control. I wonder whether this is legal or in the spirit of MiFid. But as for ProSpreads, I don't know.

 

[gle101]

I dont know whether they are welcomed. What I do know is that if you are on refer to dealer with Capital Spreads and you open an account with another LCG outfit like Etrade, they place the new account on manual execution straight away before you have even placed your first trade.

So if you've tried them once you don't stand a chance of automatic execution again in any SB name they control. As for ProSpreads, I don't know.

Yes it will be ok, totally different platform. You trade the futures with a spread betting wrapper. E-Trade is a LCG white label outfit (the old platform).

 

[PipStar]

Simon, sorry, this time I cannot agree with your post. With this post you give evidence of not having respect for your clients. At least those clients, who are not in line with your self made standards. If this attitude is adapted by the the industry as a whole, you are all surely heading for stricter regulations, period. I am getting quite tired of hearing you whining all the time and hiding behind the latency and hedging issue. You can get away with this kind of attitude at this time, but I can assure you it won't be for long. Capitalspreads are not applying the MiFID "Best execution" directive, this is very clear, the very same directive, which you have so courageously agreed to follow. You clearly interpret the "Best execution" directive to suit your own means, including the full rights to manipulate individual client accounts. Manipulating is a very strong word, but this is exactly what you are doing, Simon. You describe scalpers as not being traders. In reality, you have lost track and are not in touch with the trading community, from which you are making a very good living.
Excuse me for the harsh language, but you had it coming.

Great post. At times in the past I thought you always came across on the SB companies side. But not this time

 

[oiltanker]

how long is my portfolio = no markets found?

 

[Black Swan]

Six trades in a morning?! Flogging is too good for people who behave in such a dastardly manner. You're obviously completely evil and should be ashamed of yourself. Have you considered easing your conscience by making a sizeable donation to the LCG Executive Benevolent Fund?

I always thought I was a lightweight TBH Phil...

 

[nash02]

I must have commented on this about 50 times on this thread

hardly dynamite we make no bones about putting clients on dealer acceptance, it is clearly stated on our web site that we may do this.

i am again at a loss to understand the problem here. Making this number of trades will flag you up to our dealers. If you win tiny amounts on each trade (and hardly ever lose) we just take the view that you are scalping. To be rejected that number of times means that you a probably attempting to trade on sudden shifts. Why should we continue to fill a client when we can never win (or have a chance to hedge). I am very sorry but our terms and our order execution policy is quite clear. We can reject any trade we want...period....

clients who try to take CS for a ride (by using latency issues to aid their trading) never seem to think that they are being duplicitous...oh no! it is the spread betting company that is to blame. Think of it in terms of a horse race ...I believe that not many bookies would take your bet after the race had been run.

Sorry but why should we continue to just pay away money? Is there a law somewhere that says that we must take a client ? We have any number of winning clients who trade in quite large size and hold their positions for a considerable time. These clients never get put on dealer acceptance because they are not just trying to 'have us over'.

as others mention... all sb companies do this....if it was not permitted i think you would have heard about it by now.

Sorry for the abruptness of this post but really i get tired of scalpers claiming to be 'good traders'

Simon

Simon

You might have heard it 50 times - but hear this for the first time - The company in question has offered to discuss out of court settlement with my solicitors. I say much better way of making money than scalping !

I think you guys at Capitalspreads need to put on your non-arrogant hat on and stay on the right side of the law.

Its about running an FSA regulated business that is breaking the law. As I mentioned in my previous post, you can refuse to do business with a client but you can not tamper with the odds. That is CHEATING and fraud. I'm not a scalper, I put my trades in and I hedge them well (I hedge every single trade), so well that I consistently beat the SB. So I'm a 'good trader' by YOUR definition and you are a cheat by LAW.

Here was the official reply from the SB when I first brought the matter to their attention:

"We are obliged to offer all clients the best execution possible in terms of price i.e. the prices they trade on represent the best available price in the market at that time.

This will occassionally result in us having to requote prices and this inevitably will lead to delays in execution time.

This procedure applies to all clients."

Note the last sentence - applies to ALL CLIENTS. SB can not apply different rules to different clients.

Gle101 - your paragraph on the quoted page gave me my most profitable trade ever! Many thanks!

 

[gle101]

Simon

You might have heard it 50 times - but hear this for the first time - The company in question has offered to discuss out of court settlement with my solicitors. I say much better way of making money than scalping !

I think you guys at Capitalspreads need to put on your non-arrogant hat on and stay on the right side of the law.

Its about running an FSA regulated business that is breaking the law. As I mentioned in my previous post, you can refuse to do business with a client but you can not tamper with the odds. That is CHEATING and fraud. I'm not a scalper, I put my trades in and I hedge them well (I hedge every single trade), so well that I consistently beat the SB. So I'm a 'good trader' by YOUR definition and you are a cheat by LAW.

Here was the official reply from the SB when I first brought the matter to their attention:

"We are obliged to offer all clients the best execution possible in terms of price i.e. the prices they trade on represent the best available price in the market at that time.

This will occassionally result in us having to requote prices and this inevitably will lead to delays in execution time.

This procedure applies to all clients."

Note the last sentence - applies to ALL CLIENTS. SB can not apply different rules to different clients.

Gle101 - your paragraph on the quoted page gave me my most profitable trade ever! Many thanks!

You are welcome.

Glad to hear that you are making good progress with your complain. Maybe I am little bit too defensive in this regard. It proves that the SB can be held responsible if they behave badly and against the rules set up by the regulators. The industry needs to adopt to the new times, the Wild West era is over for the SB industry.

 

[gle101]

Great post. At times in the past I thought you always came across on the SB companies side. But not this time

Thanks, I have been very critical at times when I felt the SB do not follow the set of rules applied for the industry. Often traders take too must risk and in the end they blame the SB unfairly for their own trading mistakes. The SB should be applauded when they do something good, but I have never been on the quiet side when there is an apparent injustice.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

So now they've admitted they were wrong, will the floodgates open for similar claims? Oh no, Simon might have to downgrade from an R8 to a Polo.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

I always thought I was a lightweight TBH Phil...

Profitable traders are the spawn of the Devil, of that there can be no argument.

 

[Jon41]

Nash you make some very big claims and throw some big words around but I'm still struggling to see what your problem is, other than the fact that this lot have decided not to take your business any more. From the tone of your writing I can hardly blame them, but that's a separate matter. I don't see what law is being broken. I asume you agreed to some trading terms and account acceptance details when you opened your account. Maybe next time you should read it. As many people keep saying, if you are looking to steal ticks all day then go DMA and see how long you can keep swimming with the sharks. If you choose not to do that, then I think you have to respect the house rules of the SB firm you are using.

Moan moan moan moan moan.