Best Thread Capital Spreads

nash02 said:
One question - unrelated to the previous discussion

Is there a DMA broker providing non-currency spreadbets apart from Prospreads?

Cheers
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Have a look at Dealingdesk, but you might have to deal with our very good friend Simon again.:) Very fast platform, so far excellent execution with no re-quote or "price no longer valid". How long it will last I don't know, but I am really impressed by the service so far.
 
gle101 said:
Have a look at Dealingdesk, but you might have to deal with our very good friend Simon again.:) Very fast platform, so far excellent execution with no re-quote or "price no longer valid". How long it will last I don't know, but I am really impressed by the service so far.
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I take it you haven't been too profitable recently then, gle?!:)
 
Simon, I have raised some points below in response to yours and the intention is simply to find improvements towards a more transparent and fair trading platform for both sides.

capitalspreads said:
I must have commented on this about 50 times on this thread.
We hope you continue to post on here, it's very helpful having the company voice on here and although there are times when we don't agree with you, you very often bring clarification and useful information to us.

hardly dynamite we make no bones about putting clients on dealer acceptance, it is clearly stated on our web site that we may do this. This is a fact most of us are aware of and if it is being augmented for the right reasons that's fine. However there have been many instances raised here which suggest SB companies might be conveniently using this solely to slow down or stop profitable traders.

i am again at a loss to understand the problem here. Making this number of trades will flag you up to our dealers. If you win tiny amounts on each trade (and hardly ever lose) we just take the view that you are scalping. To be rejected that number of times means that you a probably attempting to trade on sudden shifts. Why should we continue to fill a client when we can never win (or have a chance to hedge). I am very sorry but our terms and our order execution policy is quite clear. We can reject any trade we want...period....
This would suggest that there are regularly opportunities to trade at prices at your disadvantage.
If this is the case then you have a real problem. We can only trade on the prices shown on your platform, we can hardly be expected to call for confirmation that this price is correct, the nature of the beast is one of immediate access, decision making and a mouse click. So if you have clients taking money from you on such a regular basis because your prices are wrong on so many occasions then you must look at your pricing strategy and model because it is obviously a risk for you.
Apart from those you refer to as "Scalpers" there must be many others who are also taking advantage quite inadvertently and not deliberately, just by virtue of the fact they have entered a trade at the price you offered.

clients who try to take CS for a ride (by using latency issues to aid their trading) never seem to think that they are being duplicitous...oh no! it is the spread betting company that is to blame. Think of it in terms of a horse race ...I believe that not many bookies would take your bet after the race had been run.
This is nonsense. This whole thing about latency is a poorly disguised attempt to cover up the inadequacy of your system as mentioned above.
You put up your prices on your website and we have no option but to trade them as we see them. We don't know your reasons for the price you display, nor are we interested, we just want to trade them. All SB companies will show marginal differences in their prices for any given instrument, again we are not interested in the why's or wherefore's we just trade them.
The way I look at it is if I'm looking to open a trade and I see a difference of 1 or 2 pips between different SB's then it's the most natural thing in the world to take the best price. It's no different from buying bananas at the market. If these differences are due to latency issues then that is a problem for you to address but until you do we can only trade the prices you offer.
Your analogy of the horse race is a good one, except that now after the race has started we can hedge or amend our exposure through companies like Betfair with whom you have some relationship through Tradefair. On the other hand if you're on the course and you place a bet with the bookie he will honour the current price on his board, he will not ask you to wait because he wants to see if the price moves either way in his favour.
SB companies on the other hand by using 'dealer acceptance' are in a position to do exactly this and it is beyond the realms of credulity to consider that dealers in this situation will not use this to the SB's advantage.
The solution here is to give immediate acceptance or refusal on all transactions, otherwise you could be seen as guilty of waiting to see the result of the horse race.

Sorry but why should we continue to just pay away money? Is there a law somewhere that says that we must take a client ? We have any number of winning clients who trade in quite large size and hold their positions for a considerable time. These clients never get put on dealer acceptance because they are not just trying to 'have us over'.
Are you suggesting that people trading short timeframes are trying to have you over. It shouldn't make an iota of difference what time span is for a trade if your platform is properly up to speed. Surely the more trades the better for you regardless of the time. Apart from what you make on the spreads ( yes I know what you are going to say on this, I'll go and get the violin out) you still have the advantage of overall balancing your book between the winners/losers and when necessary hedging the rest.
You are quite right of course to say there is no law that says you must take a client. However your reputation depends very much on treating your accepted clients fairly, which I do believe in the main you do. BUT, these regularly recurring issues although a very minor part of your business must be a real thorn in the backside so wouldn't it be easier to sort out your pricing strategy, bring it up to speed so you can't be had over any more.

as others mention... all sb companies do this....if it was not permitted i think you would have heard about it by now. And the above is not just directed at you Simon, it applies to all SB's

Sorry for the abruptness of this post but really i get tired of scalpers claiming to be 'good traders'

Simon
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Phil Mibbutz said:
I take it you haven't been too profitable recently then, gle?!:)
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Yes that could be the case. :)
I have not heard from anybody trading with DD about them having re-quotes or "price no longer valid". Simon have also said that no one trading with DD is on dealer intervention. The reason for this I don't know, maybe not enough of clients yet on this platform. Maybe Simon could enlighten us why this is the case. The platform is definitely much faster compared to CS platform, the price feed is without any delay whatsoever.
 
rwb said:
Simon, I have raised some points below in response to yours and the intention is simply to find improvements towards a more transparent and fair trading platform for both sides.
Click to expand...
Very hard to read the red text, could you by any chance change it to blue?
 
gle101 said:
Yes that could be the case. :)
I have not heard from anybody trading with DD about them having re-quotes or "price no longer valid". Simon have also said that no one trading with DD is on dealer intervention. The reason for this I don't know, maybe not enough of clients yet on this platform. Maybe Simon could enlighten us why this is the case. The platform is definitely much faster compared to CS platform, the price feed is without any delay whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Very few people trading with any SB outfit will be on dealer intervention. As soon as you realise that it's only possible to open a losing trade, you really have to become an ex-client and go elsewhere. CS et al may have the right to refuse business, but not in such an underhand and unfair way, so all power to nash.
Who knows, if these tactics are stamped out a few SB cos might disappear, giving us the chance to get better deals on DMA accounts?
 
rwb said:
Simon, I have raised some points below in response to yours and the intention is simply to find improvements towards a more transparent and fair trading platform for both sides.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot. Very good points rwb.
 
Phil Mibbutz said:
Very few people trading with any SB outfit will be on dealer intervention. As soon as you realise that it's only possible to open a losing trade, you really have to become an ex-client and go elsewhere. CS et al may have the right to refuse business, but not in such an underhand and unfair way, so all power to nash.
Who knows, if these tactics are stamped out a few SB cos might disappear, giving us the chance to get better deals on DMA accounts?
Click to expand...
I think SB will improve, I do feel they have done so over the years I have been spread betting. Also the financial authorities is starting to look at financial SB in a new light, and will for sure take action in enhancing the regulation for this fast growing industry.
 
gle101 said:
I have not heard from anybody trading with DD about them having re-quotes or "price no longer valid". Simon have also said that no one trading with DD is on dealer intervention. The reason for this I don't know, maybe not enough of clients yet on this platform. Maybe Simon could enlighten us why this is the case. The platform is definitely much faster compared to CS platform, the price feed is without any delay whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Since Dealing Desk is part of London Capital Group I believe anybody who is on dealer confirm within the group will also be put immediately on dealer confirm at Dealing Desk from the date they open the new account. So, obviously these traders won't be opening accounts with DD.
 
PipStar said:
Since Dealing Desk is part of London Capital Group I believe anybody who is on dealer confirm within the group will also be put immediately on dealer confirm at Dealing Desk from the date they open the new account. So, obviously these traders won't be opening accounts with DD.
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Not to my experience, I have had a lot of "price no longer valid" message from CS, but none from Dealingdesk. Nobody have reported on this forum that DD give a "price no longer valid" message or a re-quote. I have asked the members on the Dealingdesk thread, but they do not post any reply. I would be glad to know if this is the case trading with DD.
 
gle101 said:
Not to my experience, I have had a lot of "price no longer valid" message from CS, but none from Dealingdesk. Nobody have reported on this forum that DD give a "price no longer valid" message or a re-quote. I have asked the members on the Dealingdesk thread, but they do not post any reply. I would be glad to know if this is the case trading with DD.
Click to expand...

Haven't experienced any problems with DD in the above regard. Although I'm not on dealer confirm with any LCG company which is I think the point being made by Pipstar.
 
Ok, I will post a question here on this thread.

Anybody that has had problems with dealer intervention with CS, and are now trading with Dealingdesk, have you had any "price no longer valid" message or re-quote?
 
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gle101 said:
Ok, I will post a question here on this thread.

Anybody that have had problems with dealer intervention with CS, and are know trading with Dealingdesk, have you had any "price no longer valid" message or re-quote?
Click to expand...

You will get 'price no longer valid' from any spreadbetter in a fast moving/volatile market. Unlikely you will get dealer intervention unless your are trading huge sums or scalping or both.

CS are not a charity they are there to take your money. Use them for long term positions and these problems wont arise. if you trying to take 5 or 10 tics out of them they will play these games and they will win - I know. Nowadays I look for 30 to 40 tics from a trade.

Also use a minimum of 2 companies.
 
capitalspreads said:
I must have commented on this about 50 times on this thread

hardly dynamite we make no bones about putting clients on dealer acceptance, it is clearly stated on our web site that we may do this.

i am again at a loss to understand the problem here. Making this number of trades will flag you up to our dealers. If you win tiny amounts on each trade (and hardly ever lose) we just take the view that you are scalping. To be rejected that number of times means that you a probably attempting to trade on sudden shifts. Why should we continue to fill a client when we can never win (or have a chance to hedge). I am very sorry but our terms and our order execution policy is quite clear. We can reject any trade we want...period....

clients who try to take CS for a ride (by using latency issues to aid their trading) never seem to think that they are being duplicitous...oh no! it is the spread betting company that is to blame. Think of it in terms of a horse race ...I believe that not many bookies would take your bet after the race had been run.

Sorry but why should we continue to just pay away money? Is there a law somewhere that says that we must take a client ? We have any number of winning clients who trade in quite large size and hold their positions for a considerable time. These clients never get put on dealer acceptance because they are not just trying to 'have us over'.

as others mention... all sb companies do this....if it was not permitted i think you would have heard about it by now.

Sorry for the abruptness of this post but really i get tired of scalpers claiming to be 'good traders'

Simon
Click to expand...

You are once again defending the indefensible. If you made markets on any regulated exchange nobody would be interested that you did not invest enough in your infrastructure in order to compete. If you offer to trade at "stale" prices in any liquid market you will get hit. There are market participants which specialise in exploiting small temporary market inefficiencies.

"If it was not permitted I think you would have heard about it by now".
Your industry benefits from public greed and ignorance, coupled with your being regulated by a largely toothless body with bigger fish to fry than spread betters. Your business practices are not necessarily legal or even ethical - the fact you have not had to answer for your decisions has no bearing on this. The simple fact is that you have not caused any individual client a considerable financial loss by manipulating execution factors, and therefore there is no real incentive to examine if your practices are legal.

Your clients are no better in failing to take responsibility for their trading, and it is of course easier to blame others for losses. No serious trader would trade what is essentially an OTC derivative of a derivative under the type of terms and conditions you offer on a short term basis, given that you freely admit to intentionally manipulating the likelihood of execution to benefit your firm at the expense of the client.

In short, your platform has had issues with mispricing for several years, related both to latency and the broken algorithms you use to quote FX. You have never bothered to fix this either due to commercial pragmatism or inadequacy. It is true that you should not allow yourself to be picked off by scalpers, however your honest clients suffer due to the practices you have adopted, which would be unnecessary if you fixed the platform issues.

These issues have been well documented in the past and any of your customers who believe they are unfairly treated should simply stop doing business with you rather than bleating on forums.
 
Or they could buy a share in london capital group and make a nuisance of themselves at the shareholder meetings :LOL:
 
I think they are a good buy actually, judging by Simon's posts he's a switched on kind of guy and there's plenty of potential for linking up with hedge funds etc through their FX subsidiary. Although if doing this I would short, say, CMC as a hedge against the general spread betting sector which is in a fairly obvious bubble.

Although I should probably back up my signature with the caveat I am not a share trader/investor, and for futher evidence this was the last thing I thought was a good buy.
 
Capital Spreads

"hardly dynamite we make no bones about putting clients on dealer acceptance, it is clearly stated on our web site that we may do this."
=====================================================================================

When you put a client on dealer acceptance do you inform the client that you have done so?

If your answer is no, would it not be better to be transparent about the situation so that both parties are fully aware of the trading relationship thus reducing the likelyhood of misunderstandings.

Regards

bracke
 
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