Best Thread Capital Spreads

It's worth repeating the following so that all are clear about the machinations of these SB cos (aka bucket shops)

"System Administrator : ...Slippage – Set by client, market and size to make extra pips on stop orders...."
Ariel Communications Ltd

Spreadbetting : Capital Spreads employ the Ariel Titan I suite to power their entire IT operation. The full Titan I suite was intended to be a "brokerage in a box". It includes a customised user interface, administration site, price engine, order management system, and robust hosting solution. Titan I frees Capital’s management from having to manage an internal IT department.
Ariel Communications Ltd
 
sb profits

i cannot talk for other SB companies but when you average out all the flak going one way or the other CS generally makes around 70% of the spread on every opening bet. This is because of the huge volume of trades that go through ... overall on average we will get almost as many buyers as sellers in any given situation.

It does not seem to matter how busy or quiet the market is this stat remains within 15% of this median on a monthly basis

It must also be said that bucket shops were where worthless stocks were 'boiler room' sold to unsuspecting investors. We never make any recommendations of any kind. We do not encourage clients to trade (in fact the very opposite, if you come to our seminars or read my daily commentary we positively discourage speculative/aggressive punting). Occasionally a trade is rejected but overall we just put a platform up that enables the average punter to trade in markets that are not normally available to him/her.

davecrom is right when he talks of market depth over data releases. Or should i say lack of it. On an FX plaform that usually offers $100m a side within 2 pips... suddenly has a spread 40 or even 50 pips wide! we sit there with a two/three pip wide price and endure the wrath of punters when they fail to get filled. Nobody rages at the quoting banks for removing liquidity, just at the moment it is needed, on whom we (and the other SB's) rely for price information.

this morning our clients came in massively short of the FTSE ... we can do nothing about it just endure a bad day....I do not rage at why the markets are being unfair to me or try to get clients to close out or trade the other way...

fibonelli

i have to assume you have no knowledge of how the 'real' market works. Orders left on exchanges are filled AFTER all other actions. So if you cleverly leave a sell order on LIFFE just below the current price a few seconds before the Non Farm Payroll number expecting to be filled first in any downward shift...please think again... all new trades etc take precedence over standing orders. I can assure you (because I have been a trader in the financial markets for a very long time) that the slippage you get on exchanges is pretty similar to that on an SB trade.

As mentioned here many times .. it is easy to complain about an SB company because your trade is directly with them... who do you complain to on an FX or DMA platform? The stats do not lie. Percentage winners are almost identical on SB accounts as on DMA.

In some markets the costs are in favour of the DMA and on others for SB. Equity markets we quote just 0.1% around the bid/offer on FTSE 100 stock. If you take into consideration 0.4% stamp duty and brokerage comms (generally around £10 a side) you can see that SB is much cheaper. On FX we quote a reasonable spread continously with no comms. On FTSE, 1 point wide with no comms (which is almost the same as you would get on a round trip on the 'real' 0.5 pip on LIFFE) but on some markets you could obviously get a better deal elsewhere and this is mainly due to the lack of client interest in those markets.

And over and above this is the truly astounding margin we demand in the first place.

There are always downsides to every platform. CS is not perfect (I would be a fool to say otherwise) but it is pretty damn good given the markets we are enduring at the moment.

Simon

ps laptop nice verse ... whose is it?
 
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sb profits

i cannot talk for other SB companies but when you average out all the flak going one way or the other CS generally makes around 70% of the spread on every opening bet. This is because of the huge volume of trades that go through ... overall on average we will get almost as many buyers as sellers in any given situation.

It does not seem to matter how busy or quiet the market is this stat remains within 15% of this median on a monthly basis

It must also be said that bucket shops were where worthless stocks were 'boiler room' sold to unsuspecting investors. We never make any recommendations of any kind. We do not encourage clients to trade (in fact the very opposite, if you come to our seminars or read my daily commentary we positively discourage speculative/aggressive punting). Occasionally a trade is rejected but overall we just put a platform up that enables the average punter to trade in markets that are not normally available to him/her.

davecrom is right when he talks of market depth over data releases. Or should i say lack of it. On an FX plaform that usually offers $100m a side within 2 pips... suddenly has a spread 40 or even 50 pips wide! we sit there with a two/three pip wide price and endure the wrath of punters when they fail to get filled. Nobody rages at the quoting banks for removing liquidity, just at the moment it is needed, on whom we (and the other SB's) rely for price information.

this morning our clients came in massively short of the FTSE ... we can do nothing about it just endure a bad day....I do not rage at why the markets are being unfair to me or try to get clients to close out or trade the other way...

fibonelli

i have to assume you have no knowledge of how the 'real' market works. Orders left on exchanges are filled AFTER all other actions. So if you cleverly leave a sell order on LIFFE just below the current price a few seconds before the Non Farm Payroll number expecting to be filled first in any downward shift...please think again... all new trades etc take precedence over standing orders. I can assure you (because I have been a trader in the financial markets for a very long time) that the slippage you get on exchanges is pretty similar to that on an SB trade.

As mentioned here many times .. it is easy to complain about an SB company because your trade is directly with them... who do you complain to on an FX or DMA platform? The stats do not lie. Percentage winners are almost identical on SB accounts as on DMA.

In some markets the costs are in favour of the DMA and on others for SB. Equity markets we quote just 0.1% around the bid/offer on FTSE 100 stock. If you take into consideration 0.4% stamp duty and brokerage comms (generally around £10 a side) you can see that SB is much cheaper. On FX we quote a reasonable spread continously with no comms. On FTSE, 1 point wide with no comms (which is almost the same as you would get on a round trip on the 'real' 0.5 pip on LIFFE) but on some markets you could obviously get a better deal elsewhere and this is mainly due to the lack of client interest in those markets.

And over and above this is the truly astounding margin we demand in the first place.

There are always downsides to every platform. CS is not perfect (I would be a fool to say otherwise) but it is pretty damn good given the markets we are enduring at the moment.

Simon

ps laptop nice verse ... whose is it?

great post Simon ..

couple of points spring to mind: .. standing orders are executed last :eek: this seems the wrong way round to me. You software is programmed to do this? or is it left to the dealers to finally get around to pressing the button eventually. I had a very late fill on a standing order only once. I guess I should consider myself lucky

In your post you said that this morning your clients came in massively short and implied that it was bad for CS. How is it bad for you? You would surely be short on the FTSE for the difference between your client's long and short positions. Maybe your dealers were caught on the hop? late to the shorting party?
cheers,
shortorlong
 
short or long

oddly enough it really is the standing orders (on exchanges) who get filled after everyone else. On our platform we make no favorites everyone gets filled as soon as we are able to do so. But it is difficult as we have to check each and every one before actioning around data releases which tends to slow up fills. If you know you should have ben filled you can trade in the knowledge that you will eventually have the order actioned (but you may not know the exact fill price) so can trade to close a position which is not yet open !

As mentioned many times on this thread we run risk books . where we effectively let clients get on with it up to a certain level and above that level we hedge. if we kept going into the market to hedge every time we got a position our brokerage bill would be enormous! Sometimes this is obvious in that if we have clients very long of FTSE but very short of Dax and Dow there is little point in going in to cover as in general markets will trend the same way. Obviously this means that when a market gaps on the open or over a figure we can be as exposed as our clients are. For us, though, we can take the very long view and acknowledge that for every time we get hurt on a shift we will win further on down the curve. (swings and roundabouts) it means that we depend on volume rather than direction.

Simon
 
>this morning our clients came in massively short of the FTSE<<

i was one :)

although it was such a no brainer there must have been a bit of hedging going on?

as one who has been to the seminars and reads the daily news i can confirm that simon not only says who wins and why but also says at what size of trade they become interested in what is going on.

yes fills can be slow at times and i have seen stops taken out when the price was no where near it and limits not triggered as price sails right through it only to reverse and climb back up. But that doesn't sound any different to anywhere else and on the whole things are working out ok. Perhaps to avoid some of the customer service issues CS might warn people if they were 'overtrading' or when the bet size becomes an issue so people are not surprised if things start take longer?
 
Good point well made

Perhaps to avoid some of the customer service issues CS might warn people if they were 'overtrading' or when the bet size becomes an issue so people are not surprised if things start take longer?

That is the best suggestion I've heard in awhile.

What do you say Simon? How about let people know when they are likely to experience different quality of execution - the other firms publish their execution policies and advise clients under what circumstances their orders will go to a dealer and why this will make execution take longer...
 
I don't agree, The SB company cannot have it all, when it comes to deciding, execution or not. The input you made and what they receive by you clicking on the quote, should be followed through. That is, if that input match the real market price (their wrap deducted) at that very instant, this whether the market is volatile or not. The SB industry is quickly changing and one will be amazed where it stand in a few years from now.

I have found this thread very educational, and am coming to understand why SB companies have some legitimate reasons for not giving the exact price that one clicks on, when the market is moving fast. I think Capitalspreads are a good firm in many respects, and the fact that Simon contributes regualry to this forum in what is obviously an open, reasonable and honest manner reassures me a lot.

The problem then with CS becomes the slow speed of their fills, but relative to other SB companies - not to some other sort of beast altogether. Some people on this thread recommend trading certain sorts of trades - e.g. after news announcements - elsewhere, if at all. But this ignores the fact that some of us - e.g. me - are not in any position to do that, whereas SB allows easy entry with no set up cost and a minimal outlay of capital. Different strokes for different folks....For me at present it is SB or nothing, simple as that. I can learn trading without risking so much....

So my comparison is between speed of CS fills - slooow - and Worldspreads - faster, but you may get requoted several points away from your original click at fast periods - and IG, who are quickest, though I have rarely traded the news with them so do not know what they are like at busy periods.

I was interested to read Simon say re slow speeds; "On our platform we make no favorites everyone gets filled as soon as we are able to do so. But it is difficult as we have to check each and every one before actioning around data releases which tends to slow up fills. If you know you should have ben filled you can trade in the knowledge that you will eventually have the order actioned (but you may not know the exact fill price) so can trade to close a position which is not yet open ! "

Sounds great in theory, but does not take account of the "price no longer valid" message. I have also had several trades which have not gone through and got the message "an unexpected error has occurred". So there is no way that I am going to try to close a trade until it has definitely gone through. So it needs to go through faster, which other SB firms can manage. IG may be bigger, but WS is presumably not, so CS should be able at least to manage their speeds?

Also in the real world - at least in my real world - not everyone has the latest super-duper computer. In CS, I need a trading window open, another for open positions, and ideally a third for the order book where I can alter stops, particularly as there are no trailing stops. I also need at least a couple of charts, and I like to have another company's price feed open too. Oh and I might like to actually look at a non-trading webpage, or the news.....All these windows need to be resized to fit together on the desktop.

So (at risk of going in to another topic) every so often my browser's memory cache fills and its speed slows down (I have increased size of memory cache in Firefox and K-Meleon but still need to close browser and restart every so often). Browsers crash occasionally too. After restart of browser it takes a while to get all windows open again - during which time prices that were standing still may suddently have moved. Plus SB firms' own websites go down occasionally, as do all computers.

So - there is enough other tech junk getting in the way of efficient trading, taking up time, and causing stress, without having very slow fills as well! As well as fast fills, the other thing I think it is legitimate to expect from an SB company is a well-designed platform where one has do the minimum of button-presses and switching between windows in order to trade. I am not saying CS are particularly bad here, but they are certaily not cutting edge.

IG has a new one-click facility, but I have not used it yet - unlike their normal deal ticket, you cannot set a stop in advance of the trade, which means the margin is not reduced drastically to fit the size of a tight stop. It has to be agreed that CS are great re margin levels.

I had a demo of GFT's dealbook 360 - some excellent features on the platform, both on the web-based platform and the software-based one. But as they wanted £1250 mimimum to open an account, I did not pursue it.
 
I had a demo of GFT's dealbook 360 - some excellent features on the platform, both on the web-based platform and the software-based one. But as they wanted £1250 mimimum to open an account, I did not pursue it.

I was going to get a spot FX account with them until I realised that they quote EURUSD 3 wide and GBPUSD 4 wide. Their SB firm quote tighter spreads on the same margin, without the currency risk...doesn't make sense. I think I'll go with these guys.
 
I had a demo of GFT's dealbook 360 - some excellent features on the platform, both on the web-based platform and the software-based one. But as they wanted £1250 mimimum to open an account, I did not pursue it.

It put me off, too. When GFT first started SB I think the minimum initial deposit was £500, which is plenty to discover whether you want to use the platform.
 
david 2000

as i have commented many many times on this thread we never, ever manipulate prices, arbitrary comments that we did not reach a level that was reached by a competitor are frankly not very useful because the chances are more likely that a competitor has adjusted his price to take out stops than that we would diliberately keep a price low (thus creating an arbitrage possiblity that can only cost us money). You must be aware that we have far more stop levels than limit levels so using your argument we should be all for extreme moves one way or the other to take out stops, not the other way round.

Our down time this morning is not something that i can readily defend. It has nothing to do with volatility or loading or any such problems. It had its root in a hardware failure which when replaced by the DR also failed. Shouting at IT seems to be all I can do at the moment but I am assured that everything will be up and back to normal v.soon. Athough we may have to take the system down for a limited time to implement the casheing transfer of information to a new server.

Down time means lost and angry clients which is understandable and destructive of value to our company.

Simon

Are you still using SQL Server as the database or moved onto something more sturdy like Oracle RAC or Sybase?
 
It put me off, too. When GFT first started SB I think the minimum initial deposit was £500, which is plenty to discover whether you want to use the platform.

Having seen many SB platforms and customer services I think I can safely say that Capital Spreads rocks :)
 
Having seen many SB platforms and customer services I think I can safely say that Capital Spreads rocks :)
They are good, nothing more. There are at the moment just too many drawbacks with the platform, especially the delayed execution. Some of the spreads they offer are really good, e.g on the FTSE and S&P. I agree, the communication and support are excellent and the personnel are helpful and polite. This is however, so long as you don't have a disagreement, then you really have to work hard to get your voice heard.
 
They are good, nothing more. There are at the moment just too many drawbacks with the platform, especially the delayed execution. Some of the spreads they offer are really good, e.g on the FTSE and S&P. I agree, the communication and support are excellent and the personnel are helpful and polite. This is however, so long as you don't have a disagreement, then you really have to work hard to get your voice heard.

Which one(s) do you recommend then?... Two of my pre-conditions are:
1. Has to regulated by FSA
2. No more than 4 point spread on DOW and 2 on FTSE (inhours)

CS satisfies both of them quite nicely.. of course the customer service is an added advantage.
 
we do not support api links into our prices. We have problems with definitions of exchanges etc and also arguments over whether prices were reached or not. Our high may not be the same high as a competitor (for many reasons mentioned in the past on this thread).

Out IT is, of course, our internal matter and not something I can discuss over a chat line. Our platform has not been 'down' for a very long time now (touchwood) even thoughwe never expected, originally, to have as many clients as we do, in such a short time frame. Of course development is going on all the time to increase speed, stability and loading. I realise some argue that why cannot we just flick a switch and have a rinky dinky all singin all dancing platform... but this (in reality, as with all IT projects) always takes three time longer and cost four times more than originally specked out.

We take feeds from many of the major exchanges and clients would be surpised at how often they go down or slow up. The CBOT/CME and LIFFE seem particularly prone to this as do some of the LSE trading platforms.

Policies for turning clients to dealer confirm are an internal matter.. it would be strange indeed if we (or any market maker for that matter) communicated internal policy.

gle

you mentioned some questions that I have not answered could you re-ask them ..sorry

Simon
 
one simple question......why can't capital confirms the deal within say 2 seconds rather than over 30 seconds? others do.
 
Which one(s) do you recommend then?... Two of my pre-conditions are:
1. Has to regulated by FSA
2. No more than 4 point spread on DOW and 2 on FTSE (inhours)

CS satisfies both of them quite nicely.. of course the customer service is an added advantage.
As I have said earlier, I feel that CS is one of the best SB around. I do hope, however, that they will improve in certain areas. The speed of execution has been mentioned as a particularly important issue, by many traders on this board. I have pointed out many times, that this delay in execution is a major security risk. Not being able to set a user predefined stop loss is yet another. If one is really unlucky, these two alone can cost more than you ever anticipated.

There are also many personal parameters to be taken into consideration while choosing the right SB company. One has to try them out to see if they fit into one's trading setup. They all have their limitations, most of these originate from the nature of the fixed spread itself (I do not consider Futuresbetting.com as a genuine SB company). If one is pleased with CS performance, I don't see any reason to switch to another SB company. I trade with CS myself, but I must honestly say, that I am very careful in giving them my full confidence, until they have taken care of the above mentioned issues.
 
SB companies

Guys,
I don't know if this is helpful, but I came onto this site about 6 months ago wondering which of the spread betting companies were the best. I couldn't find any definitive answers, so in the end I did my own research on some of the top companies. I think I went a bit over the top on it - so in the end I put my research on a free website called: spreadbetcheck.com. Feel free to take a look and let me know what you think...don't worry, if you register to take a look at the details you don't get any advertising or junk mail.:)
 
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