Capital Spreads fraudulently changed the prices of trade executed 2 weeks ago!!!!!!!!

[lancenicolase]

Found this thread interesting!!

I have many times been knocked out of my stops due to unreasonable opening or closing prices which are not related to the underlying financial product and NEVER has my SB company – Capital Spreads come back to say sorry we will reverse your losses. Why should SB companies be the only ones to benefit from such price movements and google on the net (an even on Trade2Win) and see how many pple are complaining about SB services) Some of you chaps like Black Swan – your responses have made me to think that you either work for SB companies or you are blatantly jealousy of this guy’s strategy. How many of you can say Capital Spreads or your SB called me to say stop limits were wrongly hit and reversed my losses???

Sometimes SB companies take pple for granted because of limited regulation. Before I moved to Capital Spreads, I was with City Index and I was fed up with their obvious cheating. I was both long and short on a couple of trades at the height of the credit crunch. My short trades had profit of about £6k and long trades had £4k losses. Then one day I noticed all the short trades which had positive trades were reversed and the long trades with losses were left open. The reason for the closure that that I did not have sufficient margin. However my argument was why closing the trades with profits and leaving the trades with losses and the case was left unresolved when both trades were reported to have not sufficient margin. And I ended up forking the £4k to clear my account. Anyway I just took it on the chin and moved on.

I think the thread starter is doing a great thing. Stand up for your rights. If Capital Spreads has been consistently mispricing their products, as you say for some weeks, one believing that those futures were volatile, and traded on the futures, closed the positions, and took the money then I don’t see my Capital Spread’s ground. They have made the situation worse by ignoring this sad chap and telling him to wait for someone on holiday.

With CS you are unable to even open a trade if you don't have enough money for the margin. Also, all the trades (on open) will have stop losses asigned to them.
I assume customer service people don't know what they are talking sometimes.

Another angle is that the SB was consistently quoting prices that were incorrect, thus deliberately misleading the client. It then took them two weeks to decide they'd made a mistake, by coincidence when the OP was in profit.

T&Cs always stress that we have to trade on their prices, not a 'real' market, so why should clients be expected to know when they're being supplied the 'wrong' prices? This will be even more true if/when SBs follow CMC and start offering rolling cash prices on things like oil, when it's difficult to know what the quote should be.

I agree as CMC seem to offer more made up products than anybody else. Cash oil is a joke and was created purely so CMC can make more money in financing charges and stuff. Of course, Peter's reply was that customers requested it. Why on earth anybody would request a product which is not transparent and difficult to understand?

Ok , lets say he was long and he got stopped on the SMI by the same price error , does he have the right to ask for a refund ?!

Has anybody ever had a losing trade reversed???

Simon usually says something that makes us feel we're lucky just to have the opportunity of trading with Capital Spreads, and we should be ashamed of ourselves for trying to take advantage of a company that makes £30m profit out of us every year.

Totally agree. Simon always tries to say how lucky we are to use his company. In November I went for an exhibition in Queen Elizabeth II centre in London and to every question he had the same answer: "I don't care if you trade or not, go long or short... In the end you will lose and we will make money". That's very poor for a CEO of a spread betting company.

 

[Ross Spur]

Simon always tries to say how lucky we are to use his company. In November I went for an exhibition in Queen Elizabeth II centre in London and to every question he had the same answer: "I don't care if you trade or not, go long or short... In the end you will lose and we will make money". That's very poor for a CEO of a spread betting company.

That almost qualifies as Doing a Ratner.

 

[tar]

Has anybody ever had a losing trade reversed???

Didnt answer my question !

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting/120658-cheated-naiive-3.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting/121022-ig-index-dispute-advice-welcome-6.html

http://fxtrade.oanda.com/community/fxmessage/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=005744;p=3

 

[stevespray]

That almost qualifies as Doing a Ratner.

I don't believe for one minute that Simon said that.


Steve.

 

[Ross Spur]

I don't believe for one minute that Simon said that.


Steve.

No, he doesn't sound like the sort of person who would shoot himself in the foot, but that's what would make it a Ratnerism.

 

[tomorton]

What SB firms actually state is that, whether the customer wins or loses, they win. Of course, we traders know that most customer will lose, but it does not require the SB firm to cheat in any way to make that happen, the SB firms do not need to make the majority of their customers, lose, they just will anyway.

 

[wackypete2]

What SB firms actually state is that, whether the customer wins or loses, they win. Of course, we traders know that most customer will lose, but it does not require the SB firm to cheat in any way to make that happen, the SB firms do not need to make the majority of their customers, lose, they just will anyway.

If that's the case (and I'm not saying it isn't) then why do they have to use such deplorable tactics?

Just some food for though, but if I could make money by doing nothing dishonest, immoral, illegal, or unethical, simply because some supposedly 90% or more of my customers lose then why risk lawsuits, complaints, integrity, etc. I should just sit back and rake it in.

Let's face it, I don't mean an underhanded trick or 2 hear and there. Most of these firms are downright dishonest to the bone.

Must be more to the story with sb/forex/bucket shop firms??

Peter

 

[capitalspreads]

wow

what a load of tosh.

as the commentator who mentions my words at a seminar knows full well my statemetns are made as a warning. Nearly Everyone who gets into Trading/Spread Betting/cfds/DMA etc etc seems to think that they just have to turn up and the money will roll in. I warn people that it is not that easy and they must work hard to make money. As I have commented many times on our main thread MOST PEOPLE LOSE MONEY TRADING whether it is SB/cfds/DMA etc. In fact almost exactly the same percentage lose no matter which version they lose (as a matter of interest slightly less lose with Capital SPreads than with DMA exchange trading on the Futures markets)

This entire thread is a bit of a misnomer. Who is actually the fraudster in this case ? Capital Spreads? Really! It was not CS who traded on blatently incorrect prices and then took the money. As I have stated many times in T2W "if you get away with a trade on a misprice then fine.. good for you" but please dont go bleating when you get caught out.

The reason that many clients have their trades found after some time is because (unfortunately for them) another client complains that the chart is showing an incorrect price and can we please change/correct it as it is making it difficult to draw chart lines etc !? We then go back over time to look at all the trades made over that period. Most of the time we find nothing but occasionally we spot a little trickster.

Also statements like "I have many times been knocked out of my stops due to unreasonable opening or closing prices which are not related to the underlying financial product" .... please give us an example. If a client can demonstrate that CS has incorrectly traded him out of a position and refused to reverse the trade then please SHOW US.

If CS stop someone out unreasonably then we will recognise it and reverse the stop.

but really the whole thread is simply ridiculous..let me sum it up..

"I traded on a palpably wrong price ...attempted to defraud my Broker out of money... got found out... got the money taken away...boohoo.... . now claim the broker is the crook! " wow !

LCG must treat everyone the same from the biggest to the smallest client (this comes under the heading of TCF [treating customers fairly]) . TCF does not mean being nice to people it means being lawful, giving correct account opening information, going through all the regulatory hoops (risk warnings/order execution policy/terms), not treating one client differently to another etc. This unfortunately means that we must treat errors in exactly the same way no matter how big or small they are.

what "deplorable tactics" has Capital Spreads used (whackypete)? Found out an incorrect trade ..... reversed it... that's it... anything else?
Whose integrity? Ours or the complainant?
Dishonesty? Ours or the complainant?

I will yet again state "if we make a mistake and a client makes money then good luck to him/her but, if we find the mistake, then please do not bleat about CS being the dishonest party."


Simon

 

[Ross Spur]

But if you make a mistake, why is it that you expect your clients to know it's a mistake two weeks before you do? How do clients ever know if a quote is 'correct' when they're trading your market and the only reference we have is 'indicative' charts that only show one side of the price or a mid?

If a shop puts an incorrect price on an item and a customer buys it, then the contract has been made and the deal has to stand.

 

[capitalspreads]

ross

actually you are wrong. An online retailer does not have to do any such thing. You may remember a few years ago one of the online retailers accidentally priced a cooker/washing machine (cannot remember which 'white good' it was) at something like £2.99 instead of £299. Word spread across the internet and hundreds/thousands of people suddenly ''bought it' . The store cancelled all the purchases by reference to their online terms and conditions.

As do we.

You must remember that by regulator rules all the terms must work both ways. If a client can enforce a blatently incorrect price on LCG then LCG can enforce it on them !!! So a stupid price print that stops out a whole array of clients would be enforcable. Can you imagine what this thread would look like then?

To blame the charts is just not reasonable ... the charts are just indicators (as every chart on every market maker site will say) this is because trades do not take place at all levels on our platforms whereas an exchange chart has reference to an actual trade. We offer the charts as assistance to your trading NOT as a reference point to every single pip/tick that takes place (although it does help of course). The current charts only update once a second and you must recognise that our prices update more frequently than this.

Also the charts must give some reference point! either the bid the offer or the mid. We find the bid is more exact as the Mid can often be disengenous if (for instance) the quoted spread is an even number then what does the chart give as the mid point? Using the Bid a client can generally (within reason) work out what the offer was.

Frankly I do not 'expect' clients to know every small mistake but this type of event was not a 'small' mistake.

Simon

 

[tar]

Simon , i agree , but you should work more to improve your data and solve these price problems , otherwise you will lose clients .

 

[Ross Spur]

ross

actually you are wrong. An online retailer does not have to do any such thing. You may remember a few years ago one of the online retailers accidentally priced a cooker/washing machine (cannot remember which 'white good' it was) at something like £2.99 instead of £299. Word spread across the internet and hundreds/thousands of people suddenly ''bought it' . The store cancelled all the purchases by reference to their online terms and conditions.

As do we.

You must remember that by regulator rules all the terms must work both ways. If a client can enforce a blatently incorrect price on LCG then LCG can enforce it on them !!! So a stupid price print that stops out a whole array of clients would be enforcable. Can you imagine what this thread would look like then?

To blame the charts is just not reasonable ... the charts are just indicators (as every chart on every market maker site will say) this is because trades do not take place at all levels on our platforms whereas an exchange chart has reference to an actual trade. We offer the charts as assistance to your trading NOT as a reference point to every single pip/tick that takes place (although it does help of course). The current charts only update once a second and you must recognise that our prices update more frequently than this.

Also the charts must give some reference point! either the bid the offer or the mid. We find the bid is more exact as the Mid can often be disengenous if (for instance) the quoted spread is an even number then what does the chart give as the mid point? Using the Bid a client can generally (within reason) work out what the offer was.

Frankly I do not 'expect' clients to know every small mistake but this type of event was not a 'small' mistake.

Simon

I said shop not online retailer. Don't remember the £2.99 cooker, but there have been other instances of mispriced sales standing.
Also, there are all sorts of regs relating to disance selling, including the customer having the right to back out of a deal within 7 days. Are you going to offer us the chance to cancel a trade if we decide we've made a mistake?

You made a point earlier about being obliged to treat all customers the same, but how is that true when you've also admitted you put some clients on dealer referral?

I still don't understand why SB charts can't just show exact prices, both bid and offer, which would settle a lot of arguments.

 

[fast trader7]

Helllo all.
Just wondering about what simon says here. for once all my trades go through the dealer no matter if it is £1 or £100 a point. So if i take a wrong price and the dealer accepts it, can you still cancel the trade?
Remmeber the trade is executed by a dealer called Mr Simon or Mr XYZ , not the automatic John!
Have you had any experiences?
Thanks

 

[tomorton]

I notice that Simon has made exactly 1,000 posts. But of course, that number's just indicative!

 

[sfarmer]

Over the past 2 weeks i had placed a couple of trades on Capital Spreads and which were executed. I even closed some of the positions and took some cash out. However this week i realized my account credit balance of £5k was reduced to negative balance. Without warning or advice from Capital Spreads. When I called Capital Spreads, i was told that all the trades executed in the past 2 weeks were being reversed because their trading system had "MISPRICED" the products, therefore my account profit of about £3k was reversed. When I raised the complain in writing they said they will reply in any event within 8 weeks from the receipt of your complaint. In the meantime my account has been made red (in debit) and I can’t trade for 8 weeks!!

These positions were genuine trades done over 2-3 weeks and when I made a profit, they withdrew the deals. I find this unfair and cheating to investors/ traders. This is real cheating. Imagine if I bought a car 2 weeks ago and sold it after. And the original seller comes back to me and say, by the way the price I sold you the car was incorrect, you now owe me more money. This is in essence what Capital spreads is doing. If any business operated this way, then for deal executed deal is not a guaranteed deal with this company. They can look at this anyway they wish but when the deal has gone through in the books the deal is done. One can do not back off on deals you do not like. If I backed out on all the deals I lost on over the years I would be £20,000's pounds better off. I cannot believe a big company like Capital Spreads would do such an ungentlemanly trick over a mistake on their side. I was expecting that there would be some explanation apart from we will get back you in 8 weeks time!!. They did not apologise or admit to be at fault.

These were Equity Indices. I bought one SMI September future index at 6120 and the SMI spot index was 6300. After 2 weeks Capital Spreads say the price of the SMI September future index was mispriced by their system at 6120. It should have been more close to spot at 6300.

No good complaining to the FSA either as they are a bunch of yes men that sit in their pockets waiting for the next free holiday abroad no doubt.

 

[sfarmer]

Helllo all.
Just wondering about simon says here. for once all my trades go through the dealer no matter if it is £1 or £100 a point. So if i take a wrong price and the dealer accepts it, can you still cancel the trade?
Remmeber the trade is executed by a dealer called Mr Simon or Mr XYZ , not the automatic John!
Have you had any experiences?
Thanks

how can you take a wrong price? There is only the price on offer isn't there?

 

[sfarmer]

But if you make a mistake, why is it that you expect your clients to know it's a mistake two weeks before you do? How do clients ever know if a quote is 'correct' when they're trading your market and the only reference we have is 'indicative' charts that only show one side of the price or a mid?

If a shop puts an incorrect price on an item and a customer buys it, then the contract has been made and the deal has to stand.

Not so at cmcmarkets. They can and do change anything they like

 

[tar]

@ Dealer referral , i strongly advice everyone who was affected by the "dealer referral" to complain to the FOS .

 

[fast trader7]

how can you take a wrong price? There is only the price on offer isn't there?

yes, the price on offer is for me, but CS can come back and say the price was wrong for whatever the reason
Thats what everybody is talking about here, innit

 

[capitalspreads]

fast trader

actually, to reverse a trade, we must be able to prove a price was incorrect and in reality we generally only reverse obviously incorrect trades

Simon