Buying a profitable system

[safvan]

Interesting thoughts above to ponder.

This must be one of the few areas of work left that have the lure of great riches and opportunities for anyone, even those with no qualifications. But as in any endeavour only a few get rich from trading.

No systems offer any guarantees that I know of. And it could take a long time to find a right path to profits let alone mountains of dosh, even for the able.

The MT4 championship may be about the nearest to such a system. I will check it out.

True path to riches is not day trading or looking for short term trading. Trade daily charts based on trend trading and just leave it be.

Within the next 5 to 10 years you would have made enough money to be part of the so called *so few make it in trading*

Really there is no other way. Period.

 

[forker]

That's a rather biased view don't you think? Just because that's what works for you doesn't mean its the only path. Institutional traders around the world participate in day trading as well as long term investments. Trying to enforce your strategies on others isn't going to go down well o this forum.

 

[wackypete2]

True path to riches is not day trading or looking for short term trading. Trade daily charts based on trend trading and just leave it be.

Within the next 5 to 10 years you would have made enough money to be part of the so called *so few make it in trading*

Really there is no other way. Period.

Very close-minded point of view.

Peter

 

[Doomberg]

True path to riches is not day trading or looking for short term trading. Trade daily charts based on trend trading and just leave it be.

Within the next 5 to 10 years you would have made enough money to be part of the so called *so few make it in trading*

Really there is no other way. Period.

You're adamant that you can't make money day trading? 😆

 

[safvan]

You're adamant that you can't make money day trading? 😆

Making money is one thing. Making *good money consistently* day trading is another.

Either way I will shut up now and go back into my hole and look for other interests. Hmm perhaps watch a film or something..

Cya around...

 

[Pat494]

While surfing around came across this thread which may be of interest to some

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221969&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

Looks a bit like a revival plus of the APS system ( Michael Harris )

 

[neil]

You're adamant that you can't make money day trading? 😆

You a cat owner Doom ? 🙂

 

[Pazienza]

Hi Pat,

What makes you think you can buy a profitable system? I can understand paying for education I suppose, on the basis that it might speed up the learning process ultimately enabling you to develop your own method, but buying a ready-made system?

What I can't get over is this:

There are plenty of markets that have (in retail terms) effectively unlimited liquidity. I mean you can move 50 or 100 ES contracts with little or no problem almost any time you want. As for the major forex pairs, forget it, you can do as much as you want, no problem at all.

That being the case, if you had a profitable system, why would you sell it? Even if you had little capital, you could grow this quickly and you could trade massive size yourself. So why sell your system for £300, or £3,000, or even £30,000?

It's just not worth your while to do it when you could be trading for yourself with an account of millions.

 

[Pat494]

Hi Pat,

What makes you think you can buy a profitable system? I can understand paying for education I suppose, on the basis that it might speed up the learning process ultimately enabling you to develop your own method, but buying a ready-made system?

What I can't get over is this:

There are plenty of markets that have (in retail terms) effectively unlimited liquidity. I mean you can move 50 or 100 ES contracts with little or no problem almost any time you want. As for the major forex pairs, forget it, you can do as much as you want, no problem at all.

That being the case, if you had a profitable system, why would you sell it? Even if you had little capital, you could grow this quickly and you could trade massive size yourself. So why sell your system for £300, or £3,000, or even £30,000?

It's just not worth your while to do it when you could be trading for yourself with an account of millions.

Hi Jimmy,

I think often it comes down to individual personality and psychology. There are successful people who suffer terribly from winning/losing and can't pull the trigger any more. At that point it's a choice between giving up or standing to one side and teaching others. There is a certain satisfaction, I guess in seeing one's pet system working and not suffering the strain.

If I had a winning system I would trade it enough to have profits to retire on and then ...? well I don't know. Perhaps come back for some lulz

Most things are for sale so it's just a matter of finding the product and offering enough

 

[Hotch]

Hi Pat,

What makes you think you can buy a profitable system? I can understand paying for education I suppose, on the basis that it might speed up the learning process ultimately enabling you to develop your own method, but buying a ready-made system?

What I can't get over is this:

There are plenty of markets that have (in retail terms) effectively unlimited liquidity. I mean you can move 50 or 100 ES contracts with little or no problem almost any time you want. As for the major forex pairs, forget it, you can do as much as you want, no problem at all.

That being the case, if you had a profitable system, why would you sell it? Even if you had little capital, you could grow this quickly and you could trade massive size yourself. So why sell your system for £300, or £3,000, or even £30,000?

It's just not worth your while to do it when you could be trading for yourself with an account of millions.

I agree, but I guess it depends on the system, if you've got 5k to put up at 100% a year, it's going to take 5 years to get to a place to make it better then a job IMHO (money wise & taking account of the risk).

Not saying selling it is the correct thing to do (I sure as hell ain't), but I can see the reasoning.

 

[Pazienza]

I agree, but I guess it depends on the system, if you've got 5k to put up at 100% a year, it's going to take 5 years to get to a place to make it better then a job IMHO (money wise & taking account of the risk).

Not saying selling it is the correct thing to do (I sure as hell ain't), but I can see the reasoning.

True, although I think most systems for sale wouldn't get out of bed for 100% PA. They go in more for 473 pips per day! NO LOSING DAYS FOR 6 MONTHS!!!! Mega Profits in The Forex!!!!!! Make Millions From The Secrets That The Big Boys Don't Want You To Know - ex "City" Trader Reveals all!!!!!!!!!!!

😆

http://www.fapturbo.com/

That last system makes money for you while you sleep 😀.

 

[Sang Froid]

Okay I remember reading a question similar to this about a year ago here. I can't remeber who made the post now so I can't credit him/her but it was such a fantastic analogy that it has stuck with me. I feel like I should pass it on, it went something like this:

The guy who invented bubble gum. Do you think he got rich and to where he was today by selling a few pieces of bubble gum to people on the streets? No, he built a bubble gum machine, he sold that machine to as many people as he could containing his bubble gum. Now he had a steady source of income generating much more revenue.....

It went something like that, I can't write it with the eloquence that the original post was but still you get the point.

However had the bubble gum inventor compounded his income from selling 1$ bubble gum and never risked more than 3% making more bubble gum, while going for a 1:2 RR in trying to make the bubblegum for .50c compouded he would have been a multi billionaire in a year and wouldn't give a **** about building machines right 😉

 

[Pazienza]

The thing is, the bubblegum machine actually dispenses bubblegum.

Most systems dispense nothing but fizzy @rse gravy.

Okay I remember reading a question similar to this about a year ago here. I can't remeber who made the post now so I can't credit him/her but it was such a fantastic analogy that it has stuck with me. I feel like I should pass it on, it went something like this:

The guy who invented bubble gum. Do you think he got rich and to where he was today by selling a few pieces of bubble gum to people on the streets? No, he built a bubble gum machine, he sold that machine to as many people as he could containing his bubble gum. Now he had a steady source of income generating much more revenue.....

It went something like that, I can't write it with the eloquence that the original post was but still you get the point.

However had the bubble gum inventor compounded his income from selling 1$ bubble gum and never risked more than 3% making more bubble gum, while going for a 1:2 RR in trying to make the bubblegum for .50c compouded he would have been a multi billionaire in a year and wouldn't give a **** about building machines right 😉

 

[LiveTradingZone]

Something to add here since no one likes system trading....

The guy's selling it (like me) love to make money. It may only make 10, 20, 40, 60% return a year on your capital, but it does make money. If you make 60% a year on your program, and then sell it to 100 people who make 60%, and you charge them a flat fee, or you charge them say 20% of their profits only, you can make a lot of money.

It really is all about money. And if the markets are endlessly supplied with liquidity there is no problem selling this program and giving it to multiple individuals. You can also program it where they can not do more than a certain amount of contracts...not give it away...not be able to see any of the coding...and only be able to trade it based on that machine or account number you set it up to trade on. (Or like I do...If I manage the account with the automated program, the client never has access to the actual program to steal it or show to anyone).

Nothing is 100% either, so saying that you can have confidence in your program will make you millions in 1 day is insane. No one is willing to risk millions on a trade because they think it is 100% a winner. You still have to use your logic and risk management skills in automated programming.

With that said what is offered out there is about 90% BS, but there are some good ones around if you look for it.

But there really isn't much of a better deal than a vendor saying...I will only charge you a 20% commission based on what you make (high water mark also). The risk is still there that you lose your money invested, but it isn't like the program seller makes a ton of money even if you lose. He will not make any money if you lose...so the incentive is to build a working program, even if it is only 20% return in 1 year.

I full expect to be bashed here, but thought I would offer up my opinion😆. Big disclaimer is that I do sell programs and sell them for flat fee's and/or performance based fee's, and manage accounts. But I am not going to lie and say you are going to make 1000% in a few days or a month. Most likely you will get about 20-40% return a year. The only programs that work in my opinion are the ones that have made a consistent % return over a few years time period. Automated programs help people pull the trigger and keep a good risk/reward in their trading. Psychologically it helps tremendously.

 

[Pazienza]

There you go Pat, Live has answered the question. If he can provide proof of his results that satisfies you, you might as well try it.

Unfortunately I will not be purchasing your system Live. Frankly, you strike me as a lazy individual. Why, you have not supplied a single picture of a mansion, a boat with scantily-clad blondes, or of you trading from a laptop on a beach!

You could learn a lot from Jon Parker of Forex MegaPips - very important to use the word mega. Even better if rendered thusly: MEGA!!!

http://www.forexmegapips.com/

 

[Pat494]

Think I will stick with my own little effort thanks

A tweak here and a realignment there and she will make my fortune for sure

🙂

 

[Pazienza]

Think I will stick with my own little effort thanks

A tweak here and a realignment there and she will make my fortune for sure

🙂

Interesting...How much do you want for it? 😀

 

[wackypete2]

Okay I remember reading a question similar to this about a year ago here. I can't remeber who made the post now so I can't credit him/her but it was such a fantastic analogy that it has stuck with me. I feel like I should pass it on, it went something like this:

The guy who invented bubble gum. Do you think he got rich and to where he was today by selling a few pieces of bubble gum to people on the streets? No, he built a bubble gum machine, he sold that machine to as many people as he could containing his bubble gum. Now he had a steady source of income generating much more revenue.....

It went something like that, I can't write it with the eloquence that the original post was but still you get the point.

However had the bubble gum inventor compounded his income from selling 1$ bubble gum and never risked more than 3% making more bubble gum, while going for a 1:2 RR in trying to make the bubblegum for .50c compouded he would have been a multi billionaire in a year and wouldn't give a **** about building machines right 😉

Thank you, I'll credit myself for the bubble gum comment (patting self on back!). :clap:

Here's my original post: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...elieved-their-system-they-wo.html#post1109708

Peter

 

[1only]

You can't make money by using any system, good, bad or great without being 100% disciplined to follow their trading rules. However, you can find a lot of useful systems free from internet.

I was aked by some traders to teach them my system and I always told them they must pay big price for my total trading solution (yes, total solution, not just a trading system) and with no guarantee they can make money from my system.

You can find someone who has a winning trading solution to make money for you instead of learning it yourself by paying fees that can be your initial investment.

 

[kevpries]

I would be interested and I am sure many others too about buying a profitable trading system. This may look like a cop-out by the do-it-yourself purists but at the end of the day this business is about making money and I see no reason not to spend money to make money. So what system would you recommend for:-

a) Under $1,000
b)Under $5,000
c)Under $10.000
d) Over $10.000

I can even tell you 2 that work and this for $0...

1. Sell option at the money and then buy a few with the money "of the sale" (self financing strategy...) - the ones you buy should be deep out the money in the same direction. In other words - sell a call option at the money and buy a few call options deep out the money - in brief: callback spread...BUT - this is not a classic callback spread that I am talking about. The idea is to close all your positions prior to expiry (and better soon that not...) with the hope that the stock price will rise so that the low sensitiv delat positions (the bouht call options) will have som rise. See...this stratey can't lose money when properly implemented. On a side note, it's mandatory that you use a low cost broker like interactivebrokers - so that the fees won't eat your profit.

2. OK, not 100% sure about this one...but worth a try:
Simply buy the top winners - short the losers around 10:00 AM New York EST time and close them by the end of the day. Use a CFD if possibl and hedge...using put options or whatever. The idea to buy/sell the daily winners/losers seems to be the easiest strategy ever - but...one never knows - I have tested it years ago and after several months just got bored...after pocketing roughly 10% a month. On a side note, I am not ayin you should buy every stock you see...for instance buying a chinese solar panel manufacturer is a better idea than buying a Gold mine company when later that day the federal reserve will announce a change in the dolar rates. I mean...if the rates rise - the gold suffers...etc. Also. don't diversity that much...you need to buy the very top winners and short the very top losers - since fees will eat your % here - you better pick only the best of the best.

whatever - good luck.