Brexit and the Consequences

[Oscar Reed]

What does the UK export to Australia and New Zealand.

Or what do AUS/NZ export to the UK.

I have no idea?

Holidaymakers maybe.

 

[Atilla]

What does the UK export to Australia and New Zealand.

Or what do AUS/NZ export to the UK.

I have no idea?

Holidaymakers maybe.

We get contractors who default and leave without paying their UK taxes.

We send tourists over to you either on their gap year or retirees trying to maintain their old ties in the criminal fraternity.


There is some food stuff but by virtue of the great distances and perishable nature that'll not be cost effective. I could be wrong.

 

[sminicooper]

So getting back to economies and GDP. According to this interviewee Andrew Neil, the US has increased GDP by 20% since 2008. The UK increased by 15% and the EU is only just back at 2008 levels.

This suggests to me that the EU is a complete basket case and in relative terms is going backwards.

What do I know !

Yesterday I watched the whole of this guy's interview live on the Daily Politics. His inability to answer the questions put to him and instead to rabbit on with the Brussels Politburo standard lines, just reinforced my view that we are better off out than in, especially if he's representative of the attitudes we have to deal with.

No wonder the peasants are revolting :cheesy:

 

[Signalcalc]

One thing that stood out me this week (amongst the many items one could choose from) that sums up the anti euro anti elite sentiment is that Lagarde character - found guilty of corruption, still in her top job, no punishment and spouting off about how bad it will be for the UK once we have left, it really beggars belief that they just carry on regardless.

May and Lagarde appear to be poles apart.

 

[J2theFizzle]

What does the UK export to Australia and New Zealand.

Or what do AUS/NZ export to the UK.

I have no idea?

Holidaymakers maybe.

_________________________
convicts?

 

[J2theFizzle]

One thing that stood out me this week (amongst the many items one could choose from) that sums up the anti euro anti elite sentiment is that Lagarde character - found guilty of corruption, still in her top job, no punishment and spouting off about how bad it will be for the UK once we have left, it really beggars belief that they just carry on regardless.

May and Lagarde appear to be poles apart.

I agree with that definately. My main worry though is if/when Article 50 is done, we have 2 years to negotiate 2 deals (the final deal and transition deal). With German and French elections, no way will they negotiate well until they have certainty on governments. So we could in fact end up wasting the best part of year 1. Clever to announce no single market access is a goal, cause it wasn't ever going to come anyway. Makes it easier on EU to find a middle ground.

 

[Atilla]

One thing that stood out me this week (amongst the many items one could choose from) that sums up the anti euro anti elite sentiment is that Lagarde character - found guilty of corruption, still in her top job, no punishment and spouting off about how bad it will be for the UK once we have left, it really beggars belief that they just carry on regardless.

May and Lagarde appear to be poles apart.

Agree strongly with you here. Corruption is rife in many countries. Just see it as entitlement. Poor man frauds state for a bit of DSS money and he gets flogged, marked and shamed.

Big wigs just so full of them selves. Makes me angry. Bring back the stocks.

I should write a very angry letter to my EU President, if I only knew who he is???

 

[Splitlink]

Yes indeed, very true - I'm a case in point. No idea who the labour leader is - have they got one? Same goes for the Lib Dem's!

It's the democratic principle of the thing that I was driving at and I suspect is what most people care about, rather than specific individuals or, even, any particular political party.
Tim.

Hi Tim.

As an add on to my last post. Are you sure that the delegates in Brussels are not elected? Where did you get that information? I ask, because I've remembered something. All of this family votes in the European elections. We've done it several times. I vote for my oarty, but the list of names is there.

 

[sminicooper]

Hi Tim.

As an add on to my last post. Are you sure that the delegates in Brussels are not elected? Where did you get that information? I ask, because I've remembered something. All of this family votes in the European elections. We've done it several times. I vote for my oarty, but the list of names is there.

"Elections to the European Parliament take place every five years by universal adult suffrage. 751 MEPs[1] are elected to the European Parliament, which has been directly elected since 1979. No other EU institution is directly elected, with the Council of the European Union and the European Council being only indirectly legitimated through national elections."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Parliament

In my book that's not democracy - because you and me as ordinary peasants, can't vote them out.

It's always worth applying Tony Benn's (terrible left-winger but a true democrat) 5 tests:

1. What power have you got?
   
2. Where did you get it from?”
   
3. In whose interests do you use it?
   
4. To whom are you accountable?
   
5. How do we get rid of you?

And when you do that, EU democracy doesn't look too good.

 

[dbphoenix]

Nigel Farage Is Joining Fox News

Of course

 

[counter_violent]

This is funny beyond words. Osborne to join Blackrock as an advisor on such matters as European politics and policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38696175

Think i'll update my cv in case they are looking for people with foresight

 

[Splitlink]

"Elections to the European Parliament take place every five years by universal adult suffrage. 751 MEPs[1] are elected to the European Parliament, which has been directly elected since 1979. No other EU institution is directly elected, with the Council of the European Union and the European Council being only indirectly legitimated through national elections."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Parliament

In my book that's not democracy - because you and me as ordinary peasants, can't vote them out.

It's always worth applying Tony Benn's (terrible left-winger but a true democrat) 5 tests:

1. What power have you got?
   
2. Where did you get it from?”
   
3. In whose interests do you use it?
   
4. To whom are you accountable?
   
5. How do we get rid of you?

And when you do that, EU democracy doesn't look too good.

Ok, I accept that, but I do not think that that that will change much in the in the UK

I refer you to my post 1718. Most of us have other things to do. It is when referendums come into the picture that people get to be experts in politics and I repeat what I have, always believed.52%-48% does not convince me. However, that is democracy and that is what you have.

 

[Atilla]

I'm giving up on the Brexit crowd who are experts on all areas including being experts on other experts. They've got their heads so far up their rear ends they can't see reason or logic. Enjoy the limelight. More liike darknight where your minds are but sooner or later you'll have to come out of that hole you find your selves in.




Is the EU really undemocratic?

Unlike the United Nations or the World Trade Organisation, only democracies can join the European Union. In theory, EU member states that slide back on democratic standards can be sanctioned, although this is easier said than done.

But aren’t a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in charge?

Actually, they aren’t. When people talk about “the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels”, they usually mean the European commission. The commission is an organisation like no other: more than a civil service but less than a government. Composed of 28 commissioners – one from each country – the commission drafts, enforces and monitors EU laws. But it does not pass laws.

That does not mean the commission is not powerful: the EU competition commissioner can block mergers and fine multinational companies staggering sums computer chip maker Intel was fined a record €1.06bn (then £852m) for anti-competitive practices. But these powers rest on treaties and laws decided by EU governments. Similarly when it comes to striking trade agreements, the commission’s powers are restricted. The EU trade commissioner negotiates on a mandate drawn up by EU member states – the opening of controversial TTIP talks with the US was based on a unanimous decision by EU member states. If TTIP survives, it can only enter into force with the approval of governments and the European parliament.

The commission cannot foist laws upon EU member states. For example, the commission spent eight years trying to get EU countries to agree to a law on cleaning up Europe’s contaminated soils, but eventually withdrew the bill in the face of an immovable blocking majority, which included the UK.

Who really makes laws?

EU laws are agreed by two institutions: the council of ministers, comprising ministers from 28 EU governments and the European parliament. The European council, EU leaders meeting for regular late-night summits, plays an increasingly important role in setting the agenda.

Isn’t Britain always being outvoted?

One of the biggest gripes of Eurosceptics is the extension of qualified-majority voting, which allows the British government to be outvoted. A swathe of EU policies are now decided by these weighted-majority votes, such as environment, agriculture and transport. More sensitive policies, including tax, defence and foreign policy, have to be agreed by unanimity.

Under QMV, a law passes if it is backed by 16 out of 28 countries that make up at least 65% of the EU population. The UK has 13% of the EU population, so gets a 13% vote share.

Research by the London School of Economics found that the UK was on the winning side 87% of the time between 2009-15. So the British government does have to accept some EU decisions it didn’t vote for. One of the most high-profile losses in recent years, was when the chancellor, George Osborne, was outvoted on an EU law to restrict bankers bonuses. In this case, more than three quarters of the British public, including 68% of Conservative voters, supported the EU proposal.



That bit in red is telling isn't. Do Brexiters know what feck they are talking about. Does Theresa believe her own BS about a social and corporate responsibility?

Tory party (Osborne) want's to continue with the inequitable skewed rewarding of fat cats. Previous charts show the distribution of income difference clearly.

UK workers get turned over and the very people who are doing it are lying to all Brexiters. Especially to men of Northern England. Is this not visibly clear to you all?

Fwiw, that UK being on the winning side is higher if one goes back further prior to 2008, because there also is the financial transaction tax votes which UK opposed.

You know who their leader is, that blabber mouth Nigel F, who thinks a Brexiter should have been appointed to replace Sir Ivan Rogers effectively politicising the Civil Service.

Same argument for the EU Commissioners and law making process by MEP's appointed by member countries political parties in proportion to respresentation in their own parliaments.

 

[Atilla]

What does the UK export to Australia and New Zealand.

Or what do AUS/NZ export to the UK.

I have no idea?

Holidaymakers maybe.

Coming back to this trade agreement, heard something interesting on BBC Radio 4.

Apparently Australia very keen and ready for open free trade agreement with the UK. Sadly it'll have to wait until UK leaves EU (if it happens).

However, the representive went on to say it is more UK who wishes to place some constraints like protecting certain agricultural produce/markets areas.

He added usually the bigger party sets constraints and when they do start placing constraints it slows down process of reaching agreement.

So yes, agreement should be possible tomorrow if UK prepared to sign up having evaluated what she wants to protect and what not...

How productive that'll be to our BoP remains to be seen.

 

[seekingTruth16]

I'm not missing any bigger picture

Not only do we subsidise everyone else, we then open up the country and let everyone in so we can be butt***kt twice over !

The mind boggles.

Why is it a problem to subsidize others who have less?

You could say London subsidizes large parts of England. Or maybe also Manchester does. Should London or Manchester become an independent state, rather than subsidize the UK? Definitely some Londoners would want that. Where does it end?

Or would you go even further...why should the high tax payers subsidize the low?

Don't you accept that there are benefits to this sort of thing? That despite you paying more than the average amount in tax, it's better for society as a whole that the wealthy pay more to help out those who have less. Might it also be beneficial to subsidize some weaker European countries, for the good of Europe as a whole?

Looks like we're moving to a more selfish isolationist world, where people just want to be with those of the same financial wealth or same race, religion or whatever.

 

[Oscar Reed]

Why is it a problem to subsidize others who have less?

You could say London subsidizes large parts of England. Or maybe also Manchester does. Should London or Manchester become an independent state, rather than subsidize the UK? Definitely some Londoners would want that. Where does it end?

Or would you go even further...why should the high tax payers subsidize the low?

Don't you accept that there are benefits to this sort of thing? That despite you paying more than the average amount in tax, it's better for society as a whole that the wealthy pay more to help out those who have less. Might it also be beneficial to subsidize some weaker European countries, for the good of Europe as a whole?

Looks like we're moving to a more selfish isolationist world, where people just want to be with those of the same financial wealth or same race, religion or whatever.

Who created the question you are asking?

 

[seekingTruth16]

Who created the question you are asking?

I thought counter violent and some others are complaining that UK is subsidizing the EU. Is that not the case?

 

[Atilla]

People who have more ability, screw others who have less.

 

[Splitlink]

Coming back to this trade agreement, heard something interesting on BBC Radio 4.

Apparently Australia very keen and ready for open free trade agreement with the UK. Sadly it'll have to wait until UK leaves EU (if it happens).

However, the representive went on to say it is more UK who wishes to place some constraints like protecting certain agricultural produce/markets areas.

He added usually the bigger party sets constraints and when they do start placing constraints it slows down process of reaching agreement.

So yes, agreement should be possible tomorrow if UK prepared to sign up having evaluated what she wants to protect and what not...

How productive that'll be to our BoP remains to be seen.

I think UK will leave, Atilla, British ar@es smell best. Any NHS doctor will tell you that!

I wonder how many other countries have the same trade agreement? However, the 10 billion saved afterwards makes it all worth while. Think what it will do for the NHS, you poor, deluded, lot!

 

[Atilla]

I think UK will leave, Atilla, British ar@es smell best. Any NHS doctor will tell you that!

I wonder how many other countries have the same trade agreement? However, the 10 billion saved afterwards makes it all worth while. Think what it will do for the NHS, you poor, deluded, lot!

Don't give up just yet Split. Parliement rules supreme. Referendum is simply guidance not rule of law.