Brexit and the Consequences

[tomorton]

I think that ranking has too much to do with religion.
Conservative is someone who dislikes change/innovation.

These are most nostalgic countries in the world

Over half of British adults want the UK to be "the way it used to be".This is according to research, carried out by Ipsos, which showed that 53.5 per cent of the country longed for yesteryears.As the below chart by Statista shows, only 32.5 per cent disagreed with the notion that the country...

www.indy100.com

The good old times.
Make X great again!

Its maybe so.

I like some change and innovations but it has to be a damn good one before I'd vote for it. For example -

• Referendums - bad
• Mayors - bad
• Fixed Term Parliament Act - bad
• Reduction of voting age to 16 - bad
• Scottish and Welsh parliaments - bad
• In fact, almost any major changes to the UK's constitutional arrangements - bad

• Sending illegal immigrants from Africa back to Africa - good
• Mandatory voter ID - good
• Fracking - good
• More nuclear power stations - good

 

[Windlesham1]

So you have met a lot of people and some of them had racist attitudes. That's really no surprise and i doubt you'd find a country in the world where that wasn't true.

But are the majority of people in every country racist? I doubt that. And I can't think why the British population should be very different from the global average. Nor why the British be uniquely more racist than other populations.

But still, you say the majority of British people are racist. There is no evidence from you to support your point. Can you back it up?

You have provided the evidence as you say other nations are just as racist. I can only base my opinions on the thousands of people I have met who expressed a view. I don't know what the bloke next door thinks, or the bloke in the chippie.However I think Brexit was aimed at people who wanted the borders closed- that may not be racist, but I don't have another word. Isolationist? But then we need to trade with other nations and the EU is only a few miles/kilometres away. Seemed silly at the time and still does. the EU is massively flawed but we cannot change things on our own.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

the EU is massively flawed

Can you show me something less flawed than EU ?

 

[tomorton]

You have provided the evidence as you say other nations are just as racist. I can only base my opinions on the thousands of people I have met who expressed a view. I don't know what the bloke next door thinks, or the bloke in the chippie.However I think Brexit was aimed at people who wanted the borders closed- that may not be racist, but I don't have another word. Isolationist? But then we need to trade with other nations and the EU is only a few miles/kilometres away. Seemed silly at the time and still does. the EU is massively flawed but we cannot change things on our own.

We're not quite in the same page. I say there are racists here in the UK and I believe there are racists in every country of the world.

You say that most of the people in the UK are racists. I don't say that most of the people here in the UK are racists and I definitely don't say that most of the people in the world are racists. I say in both cases that most people are not.

But it should be easy for you to demonstrate the truth in what you believe about the UK. If the majority of people here are racists then finding some evidence of that should be simple and easy. So please go ahead and do it.

 

[counter_violent]

Can you show me something less flawed than EU ?

Yes the UK.

EU has no ability to get rid of inept politicians whereas we do it at the drop of a hat.

 

[alan5616]

 

[tomorton]

View attachment 320442

I don't think that its big enough.

 

[Inquisitor]

View attachment 320449

Write out 100 times:

"The practice of practicing devious methods for replacing the characters EU with the characters BREXIT must be discontinued forthwith as it distorts the reality of what that reality actually is"

It also demonstrates that whoever is doing this cannot spell the word "benefit".

 

[Atilla]

You have provided the evidence as you say other nations are just as racist. I can only base my opinions on the thousands of people I have met who expressed a view. I don't know what the bloke next door thinks, or the bloke in the chippie.However I think Brexit was aimed at people who wanted the borders closed- that may not be racist, but I don't have another word. Isolationist? But then we need to trade with other nations and the EU is only a few miles/kilometres away. Seemed silly at the time and still does. the EU is massively flawed but we cannot change things on our own.

Sometimes people interpret superiority as racism.

Smug superiority as in the way we do something is better than how others do it. Hence, why we have different beliefs cultures values and the rest.

That is not racism. That can be said of the French English and Germans along with every other nation.

Of course there is then colour and faith; whole range of challenges they raise in human perceptions.

Racism is the active pursuit and discrimination against a group for whatever reason. Pick any one difference.

I would frame it as that the UK is cool Britannia and the least racist of all the other nations I have experienced race related discrimination in.

That's because of Britain's colonial history and indeed superior good management of those colonies.

So to summarise everyone is prejudiced in favour of their own kind in the widest sense but that doesn't mean it is racist persecution. I'd say imo, active racist discrimination is the case in the US wrt the treatment of especially black people.

In general, people just favour sticking around their own kind with shared beliefs n values whilst interfacing with humane protocols of decency n respect with other types.

 

[Atilla]

They will tick along if they are lucky. EU have never been about free trade, more about protectionism.

Benefits too numerous to mention, but here's a few.
1. Got our sovereignty back.
2. Can hire and fire our politicians at will. Unlike Europe.
3. No Lib Dems.
4. No Labour.
5. Trade deals coming out of our ears.
6. Boosting trade by lowering tariffs.

UK to cut import taxes from some of world's poorest countries

Clothes, shoes and foods will benefit from lower or zero tariffs under the new scheme.

www.bbc.co.uk

1-4 we already had before. Simply that we were part of a club with membership rules and privileges.

5. is tosh. Most are roll-over agreements. Nothing new. Can you mention just 2 "new" trade deals and what they are worth pretty please?

6. Boosts imports. Issue is about our exports. So now European market is closed who are we selling to?

 

[tomorton]

I always enjoy posts on Brexit. The sovereignty issue is always interesting.

 

[Atilla]

I always enjoy posts on Brexit. The sovereignty issue is always interesting.

Yes me too

If you think about CVs' points 2-3 they are the thoughts of a tyrant. Putin's got nothing on CV.

2. Can hire and fire our politicians at will. Unlike Europe. Well, we still can't hire or fire EU politicians so what's changed?

3. No Lib Dems. This is a matter of democracy for parliament. What's Brexit got to do with it. Parliament and the British people decide as before.

4. No Labour. Same again. This is a matter of democracy and parliament. What's Brexit got to do with it. Parliament and the British people decide as before.


You can just see the desperation of Brexiteers to make up double numbers. ROTFLMAO.

1. Sovereignty we always had anyhow. Brexit proves the point. We've decided to leave and left. Which idiot said you can check in but never check out?

We've checked out for what?

Grass is always greener on the other side and all that. Well and good. Steady as she goes.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

UK can obviously change leaders faster than EU but if you change an idiot with another what is the point?
Personally I think Von Der Leien is much more competent than the average Italian politician, she can avoid populistic BS to win the next elections.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Grass is always greener on the other side and all that.

Unfortunatelly EU does not solve drought so grass is not so green!
The point is that I am very happy with my reduced sovreignty but my enhanced free movement, I can go many countries without passports and visas, and I can pay everything without changing currency , wasting money and time with conversions.

 

[tomorton]

Politicians come and politicians go. Even political parties come and go. Even nation states come and go in the wider historical context I suppose.

But that's where I draw the line. I don't mind finding my compatriots have voted in a Prime Minister I would not have chosen. But I have to draw the line at finding I have been moved into someone else's country in my sleep.

 

[Atilla]

Unfortunatelly EU does not solve drought so grass is not so green!
The point is that I am very happy with my reduced sovreignty but my enhanced free movement, I can go many countries without passoprt and visas, and I can pay everything without chaging currency and wasting money and time with conversions.

Agreed, we had so many benefits and privileges before.

The migration of labour was also a British thing. Nothing forced on us by the EU.

So whilst we had about 22K migrants (non-EUs) trying to get in to the UK, more people (EU citizens) left.

Skill and brain drain coupled with money and investment and loss of markets.

 

[Atilla]

Politicians come and politicians go. Even political parties come and go. Even nation states come and go in the wider historical context I suppose.

But that's where I draw the line. I don't mind finding my compatriots have voted in a Prime Minister I would not have chosen. But I have to draw the line at finding I have been moved into someone else's country in my sleep.

You becoming a drama Queen in your old age.

That is a very wild stretch of the imagination.

Don't forget there were about dozen different types of membership statuses. You could pick and mix what sweeties you wanted .

 

[tomorton]

You becoming a drama Queen in your old age.

That is a very wild stretch of the imagination.

Don't forget there were about dozen different types of membership statuses. You could pick and mix what sweeties you wanted .

View attachment 320827

The issue would have arisen at some stage. The 2016 referendum brought matters prematurely to a head, which is part of the reason for the close vote and for the lack of clear and final resolution. Although the result was Leave, the closeness of the vote made this a very unsatisfactory and not fully convincing win.

But there was always a danger that when the matter of final sovereignty was brought to a head, its possible it would simply have been dealt with as an administrative governmental decision, with no referendum, no public input, no manifesto pledge, no headline issue which the public would have recognised. Annexation by fax.

Its just wilful blindness to regard the EU as anything less than just one more stage in the development of a United States of Europe.

 

[Inquisitor]

UK can obviously change leaders faster than EU but if you change an idiot with another what is the point?
Personally I think Von Der Leien is much more competent than the average Italian politician, she can avoid populistic BS to win the next elections.

It is somewhat surprising that you are praising Ursula Von Der Leyen as competent as that is not what anyone was saying about her response to the EU vaccination debacle that happened.

That aside she is a classic example of what is wrong with the way the EU appoints its leaders. She served in Merkel's cabinet from 2005 to 2019 with her last role as that of Defence Minister. It is very well documented that she left the German armed forces in a total shambles often without the parts needed for them to have any ability to carry out their functions.

So what does the EU do regarding her abject failure in her previous role? They promote her to an even higher office with more responsibility and with no ability for anyone to get rid of her. Take that scenario and copy and paste it numerous times and you have the leaders running the EU today.

The UK is very fortunate not to have joined the Euro because if they had then inflation today would be at least 10% higher than it is with no ability to independently bring it down. This is what happened to Ireland when they had rampant inflation with interest rates at record lows and being set by the ECB who simply didn't care that Ireland was in the mess it was in which later saw a crash and huge budget deficit.

Agreed, we had so many benefits and privileges before.

The migration of labour was also a British thing. Nothing forced on us by the EU.

So whilst we had about 22K migrants (non-EUs) trying to get in to the UK, more people (EU citizens) left.

Skill and brain drain coupled with money and investment and loss of markets.

Your comments regarding labour shortages implies you are in favor of a model that keeps wages of the poorest down to allow for those better off to get more wealthy. What the UK is now seeing is that all those jobs that were paying a pittance to cheap labour mostly from the EU can no longer compete for staff. So they are now having to up the wages to attract staff so here we have a major benefit of Brexit in that the wages of the lowest paid are starting to go up and quite a lot. The idea that any business just cannot get staff is flawed because if you offer enough money people will always take the work.

The idea that there is an overwhelming case for or against Brexit is not born out either way. It will be a long time before any real conclusions can be drawn from what happened and in the mean time both sides will keep arguing as to why they are right and the other side is wrong.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

The idea that there is an overwhelming case for or against Brexit is not born out either way. It will be a long time before any real conclusions can be drawn from what happened and in the mean time both sides will keep arguing as to why they are right and the other side is wrong.

In the meantime every UK citizen is experiencing higher prices, shortages and hassle to move in EU countries.
Of course maybe UK is right and other 26 coutries are wrong, possible but not so likely.