Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

Ahh - I just did a google search and apparently "CNBC" the 'fountain of knowledge' and 'real news' is predicting the same outcome - so no chance of that then!

Boris Johnson's Brexit deal faces narrow defeat on Saturday, analysts warn

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has insisted he is "very confident" the House of Commons will support his Brexit deal on Saturday.

www.cnbc.com

Is that the CNBC that used footage from a US military gun range training exercise and reported it as the Turkish invasion and bombing of Syria? Oh no that was ABC, I get mixed up, they are all fake news merchants whichever one is picked

 

[timsk]

30-40bn was the reasonable due based on previous EU budget UK signed up to, giving us some sort of a transition deal. We have had 3 years to get ready but UK Gov has done diddly dot.

As for EU position, yes extension will be granted but only on the proviso new elections or referendum might be held.

I think every blind man and his dog knows the country needs an election or Brexit referendum.

Over to you democracy experts.




I find this quote really feeble. Our Parliament is our democratic process. It is not a matter of seen to be democratic but being so.

Lost count how many times I've repeated the referendum was only advisory and Parliament has tried to debate and reach some decisions but numbers didn't add up. Even though DUP was bribed by a few £100m per vote.

That was democracy at work. We also have had post-referendum elections and Tories lost the majority.

The fact that some hard nut Brexiteers don't perceive that as their comprehension of democracy is neither here or there. The highest court in the land has also ruled on it.

It beggars belief that you can put up some feeble line about being seen to be as such whilst ignoring the hard democratic truth played out in Parliament.

And now the same very scoundrels will turn the next elections to be about people versus the establishment. Sort of a fancy show style revolution. What's difficult to stomach is it is manipulated by the very rich snotty people who don't give a hoot about the people, social services or paying their way in the UK but prefer to loiter their money into safe havens.


Experts on democracy need to get a grip imho.

At',
Do us all a favour and tell us another 100 times that the referendum was only advisory - as we've failed to absorb it the first 10,000 mentions. As I/we are bored of telling you - it was overridden by official government policy which clearly stated that the result would be implemented. I realise this is an uncomfortable truth for remaoners from which there's no escape, but trying to wriggle out of it based on a minor, meaningless and moronic technicality is truly pathetic and serves only to undermine democracy.

The highest court in the land ruled on the prorogation of parliament which has nothing to do with my post. Grrr! Your habitual non-sequiturs are infuriating: please respond to actual comments made rather than just tossing in unrelated remarks willy-nilly that everyone on this thread has read a hundred times before. If not for me, do it for of the likes of Jon and other remainers - as they too must be equally irritated by irrelevant remarks.

You've got some bizarre obsession with 'democracy experts'; gawd knows where this comes from. One thing's for sure, it has nothing to do with anything I've ever said. Anyone who follows brexit knows and understands that millions of leave voters are very angry with the failure of government and parliament to implement their decision. Increasingly, their perception is that democracy has failed them. Whether or not they're right or wrong is completely immaterial. Perception trumps all else and that's what people act on. So, when I say that democracy must be seen to be served, I'm making a serious and important point because, if the public perception is that it hasn't - then their anger could very easily spill over into civil unrest. This is a view voiced by many; it's not controversial and it does not require any expertise on either the constitution or parliamentary democracy to understand. It is arrived at through basic observation, simple logic and is very obvious to anyone who cares to look.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

it was overridden by official government policy

You still don't get it do you?

Affordable homes, full employment and economic growth are all government policies too but you don't scream foul on democracy when it's not delivered do you.

You being obtuse again?

I feel the same frustrations about hearing you repeat the same old tosh about - for one day only - democracy around some advisory referendum. Just correcting your misunderstanding about the what democracy is that's all.

You could show some gratitude.

 

[Signalcalc]

You still don't get it do you?

Affordable homes, full employment and economic growth are all government policies too but you don't scream foul on democracy when it's not delivered do you.

You being obtuse again?

I feel the same frustrations about hearing you repeat the same old tosh about - for one day only - democracy around some advisory referendum. Just correcting your misunderstanding about the what democracy is that's all.

You could show some gratitude.

Well this advisory referendum gave us more than we could ever have dreamed of, the possibility of Brexit and the exposure of the political class for the frauds we all new they were/are but managed to keep it relatively under wraps until the advisory referendum. Now these MP tossers (globally) are going to come under closer scrutiny now that most of us have been re-educated in the corrupt ways of politicians, no-one will be safe from the ballot box, and as Timsk correctly points out, people will vote on perception as much as knowledge, in fact they will vote on good luck, reputation, recommendation, bad behaviour, word of mouth, honesty etc etc.

 

[timsk]

You still don't get it do you?

Affordable homes, full employment and economic growth are all government policies too but you don't scream foul on democracy when it's not delivered do you.

You being obtuse again?

I feel the same frustrations about hearing you repeat the same old tosh about - for one day only - democracy around some advisory referendum. Just correcting your misunderstanding about the what democracy is that's all.

You could show some gratitude.

Funnily enough At' I started my last post to you with: 'You're being obtuse, again' - but decided to edit it out. Unlike you, I have the ability to pause and consider carefully what I've written before hitting the 'post reply' button.

I haven't misunderstood anything and I 'get' what you're saying completely. Just so you know I've taken your point on board - and in the vain hope that you won't repeat it endlessly - I'll summarise it for you now. Essentially, it's that all politicians say whatever they want either to get into power or to stay in power and that their words have zero value and should be treated as a tissue of lies. Regard any politician that actually sticks to what they say as rare examples that are very much the exception that proves the rule. Yep, okay, got it.

Now, what you clearly don't get is that I'm saying that's unacceptable and that, self evidently, that's no basis for anyone to make a sensible and informed decision about who to vote for. I expect more, and the wider electorate expect more. In the case of the referendum it's especially important because the people had a direct say in the country's future and, as we all know, some five million people voted for the very first time. Politicians can't renege on their promises and expect the electorate to swallow it without any push back. They may get have got away with it in local and even general elections in the past, but that has to change. And the referendum was in a completely different league, a 'once in a generation' vote, so the normal bullshit didn't apply - which is why democracy is in such a quagmire of brown sticky stuff and why many MPs will have their ar$es handed to them on a plate come the next general election. Now, please respond in kind and do me the courtesy of letting me know you've understood my points - even if you don't agree with them.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Well this advisory referendum gave us more than we could ever have dreamed of, the possibility of Brexit and the exposure of the political class for the frauds we all new they were/are but managed to keep it relatively under wraps until the advisory referendum. Now these MP tossers (globally) are going to come under closer scrutiny now that most of us have been re-educated in the corrupt ways of politicians, no-one will be safe from the ballot box, and as Timsk correctly points out, people will vote on perception as much as knowledge, in fact they will vote on good luck, reputation, recommendation, bad behaviour, word of mouth, honesty etc etc.

They have all been under scrutiny since the expenses scandal. They were already found out way before any Brexit talk. Brexit has simply confirmed what we already knew. Our MP's and parliament are simply not up to the job and this is because they have not had to make any meaningful decisions or be held to account.

 

[counter_violent]

 

[Atilla]

Funnily enough At' I started my last post to you with: 'You're being obtuse, again' - but decided to edit it out. Unlike you, I have the ability to pause and consider carefully what I've written before hitting the 'post reply' button.

I haven't misunderstood anything and I 'get' what you're saying completely. Just so you know I've taken your point on board - and in the vain hope that you won't repeat it endlessly - I'll summarise it for you now. Essentially, it's that all politicians say whatever they want either to get into power or to stay in power and that their words have zero value and should be treated as a tissue of lies. Regard any politician that actually sticks to what they say as rare examples that are very much the exception that proves the rule. Yep, okay, got it.

Now, what you clearly don't get is that I'm saying that's unacceptable and that, self evidently, that's no basis for anyone to make a sensible and informed decision about who to vote for. I expect more, and the wider electorate expect more. In the case of the referendum it's especially important because the people had a direct say in the country's future and, as we all know, some five million people voted for the very first time. Politicians can't renege on their promises and expect the electorate to swallow it without any push back. They may get have got away with it in local and even general elections in the past, but that has to change. And the referendum was in a completely different league, a 'once in a generation' vote, so the normal bullshit didn't apply - which is why democracy is in such a quagmire of brown sticky stuff and why many MPs will have their ar$es handed to them on a plate come the next general election. Now, please respond in kind and do me the courtesy of letting me know you've understood my points - even if you don't agree with them.
Tim.

Yes I do understand your point. You will hold the politicians to account on this EU Brexit issue. That is fine. I wouldn't expect any thing different from democracy. That is precisely why we have elections.

I thought I touched on this before. There is no mad rush to get Brexit done. There are always elections and more referendums now that the cat is out of the bag and people can clearly see what it is.

Remember democracy is not a one day only event.

What is also clear is that there is no mandate for a hard brexit or even the deal until Parliament votes. So whatever has been said or done, it is sovereign Parliament decides outcome. Not one or too niche minority interest politicians; as much as you might think they are the bees knees. Having said that you are hardly the bright spark much like CV who is gullible enough to believe all that he is told and contrary to all evidence believes in whatever he believes to be truth.

By the way referendum was not in any particular special league at all. Please don't talk it up. In net effect it was a total pile of pooh. Ill thought out, badly organised, badly worded, not really well considered, debated or acted. Consititutional referendums with such ramifications really should be 2/3rds. As someone said if remain won Farage would simply continue with his blabbering and he said so too to Sky News on the night of the count before results were known.

I really think you are dramatising it all beyond what it was. Simply the tories trying to maintain their grip on power otherwise Labour would have got in as Tory votes would have gone to UKIP. Lost how many times I've had to explain that to you also.


If this daft deal does get voted through it certainly will not be as good as the one we have now. Politicians will say so - as Boris is doing now. Do you believe him?

 

[counter_violent]

Yes I do understand your point. You will hold the politicians to account on this EU Brexit issue. That is fine. I wouldn't expect any thing different from democracy. That is precisely why we have elections.

I thought I touched on this before. There is no mad rush to get Brexit done. There are always elections and more referendums now that the cat is out of the bag and people can clearly see what it is.

Remember democracy is not a one day only event.

What is also clear is that there is no mandate for a hard brexit or even the deal until Parliament votes. So whatever has been said or done, it is sovereign Parliament decides outcome. Not one or too niche minority interest politicians; as much as you might think they are the bees knees. Having said that you are hardly the bright spark much like CV who is gullible enough to believe all that he is told and contrary to all evidence believes in whatever he believes to be truth.

By the way referendum was not in any particular special league at all. Please don't talk it up. In net effect it was a total pile of pooh. Ill thought out, badly organised, badly worded, not really well considered, debated or acted. Consititutional referendums with such ramifications really should be 2/3rds. As someone said if remain won Farage would simply continue with his blabbering and he said so too to Sky News on the night of the count before results were known.

I really think you are dramatising it all beyond what it was. Simply the tories trying to maintain their grip on power otherwise Labour would have got in as Tory votes would have gone to UKIP. Lost how many times I've had to explain that to you also.


If this daft deal does get voted through it certainly will not be as good as the one we have now. Politicians will say so - as Boris is doing now. Do you believe him?

I can understand why you are irked, being on the losing side of everything ALL the time. Oh well, such is life !

Btw, Boris won't give Two hoots if this deal is passed or not, he will still be in the driving seat in any event.
So far he has lost every vote in parliament. It's a magnificent achievement and with any luck he can maintain this record.
The dimwit politicians are inadvertently making his job much easier come the next general election. All he will need to do is make it a people v parliament election to gain an outright victory.

 

[Signalcalc]

Hahaha, watch the first couple mins of this, predicted deal passed?

 

[Signalcalc]

Oh poor diddums, dey got to go to work on a Saturday, idiots.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1185187088020525057/pu/vid/1280x592/-J3XaeqVM8IfRKkL.mp4

 

[Signalcalc]

Oh for God’s sake let’s forget the whole fckn thing.

We need a general election so that we can wipe the remoaners from parliament, then we can leave with a majority voting for a clean break rather than them undemocratically fannying around with a crap deal that no-one wants (apart from the EU) hoping that will keep us locked into the EU forever or hoping a second referendum will work for them.

 

[barjon]

We need a general election so that we can wipe the remoaners from parliament, then we can leave with a majority voting for a clean break rather than them undemocratically fannying around with a crap deal that no-one wants (apart from the EU) hoping that will keep us locked into the EU forever or hoping a second referendum will work for them.

yes, I deleted the post you quoted since I thought it was a bit intemperate.. I’m not so sure that a general election would wipe out remoaners. The country is still fairly evenly split between stay or go so I guess both sides are pretty fearful that they might lose out.

 

[counter_violent]

yes, I deleted the post you quoted since I thought it was a bit intemperate.. I’m not so sure that a general election would wipe out remoaners. The country is still fairly evenly split between stay or go so I guess both sides are pretty fearful that they might lose out.

No, we fear nothing . It's out there in plain sight for all to see. Parliamentarians may have lost their heads but the voting public have not. On balance there is still a natural majority that believe in democracy and in Brexit.

I was minded earlier on how Trump dealt with the EU. He told them that there would be tariff increases in line with the tariff's charged for US goods imported into Europe. 25% on cars as an example. He requested meeting after meeting with Junker, who ignored him. So Trump said that's fine, tariff increases will go ahead. Within days, Junker was on a plane to the US on a damage limitation exercise. And that is how you deal with the EU, from a position of strength.

This crappy May mark 2 deal needs consigning to the dustbin where it belongs. We need a wholesale clear out of duffer MP's and that can't happen soon enough.

 

[barjon]

No, we fear nothing . It's out there in plain sight for all to see. Parliamentarians may have lost their heads but the voting public have not. On balance there is still a natural majority that believe in democracy and in Brexit.

I was minded earlier on how Trump dealt with the EU. He told them that there would be tariff increases in line with the tariff's charged for US goods imported into Europe. 25% on cars as an example. He requested meeting after meeting with Junker, who ignored him. So Trump said that's fine, tariff increases will go ahead. Within days, Junker was on a plane to the US on a damage limitation exercise. And that is how you deal with the EU, from a position of strength.

This crappy May mark 2 deal needs consigning to the dustbin where it belongs. We need a wholesale clear out of duffer MP's and that can't happen soon enough.

So how do you conclude that there is still a natural majority who believe in Brexit? You only just crept over the line three years ago so it was hardly a thumping great majority to carry you forward. If you are so confident then just get the people to clear the log jam by a general election or referendum. The massive majority you think is there will then give the incoming government a thumping majority enabling them to proceed without further hindrance. Oh I forgot, May tried that one and got a nasty surprise.

 

[counter_violent]

Nigel Farage | Change for good

www.nfarage.com

 

[counter_violent]

So how do you conclude that there is still a natural majority who believe in Brexit? You only just crept over the line three years ago so it was hardly a thumping great majority to carry you forward. If you are so confident then just get the people to clear the log jam by a general election or referendum. The massive majority you think is there will then give the incoming government a thumping majority enabling them to proceed without further hindrance. Oh I forgot, May tried that one and got a nasty surprise.

Treasonous May deliberately ran a non campaign aimed at diminishing her healthy majority in order to muddy the waters.
And guess what ! It worked. The establishment moves in mysterious ways.

It's the frit parliamentarians who are blocking any election. The voting public can't wait.

Btw. The Brexit result was momentous when taken in context. Most historic results are in line with Govt recommendations.

 

[barjon]

Treasonous May deliberately ran a non campaign aimed at diminishing her healthy majority in order to muddy the waters.
And guess what ! It worked. The establishment moves in mysterious ways.

It's the frit parliamentarians who are blocking any election. The voting public can't wait.

Btw. The Brexit result was momentous when taken in context. Most historic results are in line with Govt recommendations.

Coo, mysterious ways, eh, glad you’re not writing the history books, cv

 

[Signalcalc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1185881350353629185

 

[Signalcalc]

Toshers 😂

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1185671703466270721/vid/640x360/o8YHc8Pigc7LRSpZ.mp4