Brexit and the Consequences

'BRINO, Deception, Lies and Subterfuge' will be the Brexit book, similar to 'Guns, lies and Spies' as was written about the first Gulf war, except this book will be about how the British public were deceived by UK and EU governments to leave in name only, not sure who will write it, but it's in the pipeline.

 
jees.....just heard the latest cooment from Eu side

basically they are saying they are not going to extend the deal if parliament reject the deal ...so boris has won it seems

N
 
jees.....just heard the latest cooment from Eu side

basically they are saying they are not going to extend the deal if parliament reject the deal ...so boris has won it seems

N
It is looking a tad more encouraging NVP, yes. But only a tad; still plenty of time between now and the end of the month for remoaners to work their evil and thwart democracy. Their latest ruse appears to be to only agree to his deal if a 'confirmatory' referendum is attached to it in which, astonishingly, the options won't be between Boris' deal and no-deal, but between Boris' deal and remain. (Jon - please take note! ;-) ) Anyway, I doubt there are any brexiteers cracking open the bubbly just yet and, by the same token, there's nothing for remoaners to get too despondent about.
Tim.
 
jees.....just heard the latest cooment from Eu side

basically they are saying they are not going to extend the deal if parliament reject the deal ...so boris has won it seems

N
A) It a'int over 'till it's over.
B) Borris played a blinder in making it look like he wanted a deal when we all knew he didn't really.

If we do actually leave without a deal we can negotiate each part of it at our leisure, taking the bits we want and leaving the bits we don't. Plus the pound is so low the UK is a great place to invest!
 
A) It a'int over 'till it's over.
B) Borris played a blinder in making it look like he wanted a deal when we all knew he didn't really.

If we do actually leave without a deal we can negotiate each part of it at our leisure, taking the bits we want and leaving the bits we don't. Plus the pound is so low the UK is a great place to invest!

Early investors getting in before it shoots back up?
 
It is looking a tad more encouraging NVP, yes. But only a tad; still plenty of time between now and the end of the month for remoaners to work their evil and thwart democracy. Their latest ruse appears to be to only agree to his deal if a 'confirmatory' referendum is attached to it in which, astonishingly, the options won't be between Boris' deal and no-deal, but between Boris' deal and remain. (Jon - please take note! ;-) ) Anyway, I doubt there are any brexiteers cracking open the bubbly just yet and, by the same token, there's nothing for remoaners to get too despondent about.
Tim.

ooh! Don’t tell me you’re in favour of this May#2 deal, Tim. You know, the vassal state and all that. Could’ve been gone ages ago if the ERG mob supported then what they look like doing now. I can but hope they get the damn thing put to bed on Saturday, DUP or not.
 
A) It a'int over 'till it's over.
B) Borris played a blinder in making it look like he wanted a deal when we all knew he didn't really.

If we do actually leave without a deal we can negotiate each part of it at our leisure, taking the bits we want and leaving the bits we don't. Plus the pound is so low the UK is a great place to invest!

Ah, what's the phrase...................................................."cherry picking".....yay....i'll vote for that !!!! (y)
 
ooh! Don’t tell me you’re in favour of this May#2 deal, Tim. You know, the vassal state and all that. Could’ve been gone ages ago if the ERG mob supported then what they look like doing now. I can but hope they get the damn thing put to bed on Saturday, DUP or not.
Hi Jon,
I haven't digested it yet - so I don't know if I'm in favour of it or not. (Btw, why do you say 'May#2 deal' - as opposed to May#1 or May#3? Besides which, the back stop has gone which makes it different to all three of her deals, doesn't it?) Boris claims that his deal enables us to take back control of our borders, trade and laws: his critics say otherwise. I'm yet to work out who I (dis)agree with. Either way, THE most important thing - above all else IMO - is that some semblance of democracy is seen to be served which will enable life to carry on more or less as normal. If that doesn't happen and there's a remoaner stitch up - which is my biggest fear - then an already bad situation will get a whole heap worse.
Tim.,
 
According to TBP this is the second worse deal in history and as I can't trust the Tories then I'll go with the opinion of TBP and hope that this deal is voted down and we leave with a clean break on the 31st, except that I don't trust the EU to stick to their word either and Art50 is not extended.

Either way it is a master strategic stroke for Boris against the remoaners, well played that man.
 
So by all accounts, this deal will be rejected by HoC:

  • Corbyn doesn't like it
  • Swindler swinson deffo won't vote for it alongside the SNP
  • DUP don't like it
  • ERG prob won't vote for it

Doubt there will be a majority on this basis, Boris will ask for an extension to get out of trouble with the Benn act on the understanding that the EU will not extend, so it will be back on the EU to decide on an extension. I believe it is an EU bluff and they will extend, they have nothing to lose by allowing this farce to go through parliament one more time, if they have lied to Boris and they extend they will be laughing either way.
 
Hi Jon,
I haven't digested it yet - so I don't know if I'm in favour of it or not. (Btw, why do you say 'May#2 deal' - as opposed to May#1 or May#3? Besides which, the back stop has gone which makes it different to all three of her deals, doesn't it?) Boris claims that his deal enables us to take back control of our borders, trade and laws: his critics say otherwise. I'm yet to work out who I (dis)agree with. Either way, THE most important thing - above all else IMO - is that some semblance of democracy is seen to be served which will enable life to carry on more or less as normal. If that doesn't happen and there's a remoaner stitch up - which is my biggest fear - then an already bad situation will get a whole heap worse.
Tim.,

Well it’s virtually May’s deal sans backstop isn’t it. It wasn‘t me who said that May’s deal just made us a vassal state of the EU - it was Boris as I recall. True the backstop has gone in it’s May form but not a lot has changed so far as the rest of the UK is concerned.
 
Well it’s virtually May’s deal sans backstop isn’t it. It wasn‘t me who said that May’s deal just made us a vassal state of the EU - it was Boris as I recall. True the backstop has gone in it’s May form but not a lot has changed so far as the rest of the UK is concerned.

It's difficult to know exactly what the "new deal?" represents without a great deal more study – but first glance suggests that you are right. Boris is a showman and needs an agreed deal to protect his image and give himself a platform for the forthcoming election. Never forget this is the man who pre-referendum prepared a script for either outcome and got lucky by backing the right horse – and of course, when push came to shove voted for May's deal.

As for the Documentation released so far: take a look and you will see that there is no contents list; there is no index – two essentials for any worthwhile document. There is a reason for that– and it was the same with May's Agreement – It makes it very difficult to find the bits that are relevant and warrant close examination. With 585 pages you soon lose the will and that's just what they want. No wonder Juncker & Co have big smiles on their faces and herald the agreement (but as Farage says: it's just a new European treaty binding in international law).

Tomorrow's vote in the Commons will be touch and go. If it passes we'll spend the next five years arguing over the small print while we still remain under the cosh of the EU and have no say in their proceedings and will also have handed over the best part of £39 billion. If the agreement doesn't get Parliamentary approval then I bet you that the EU will grant an extension on condition of a further referendum. If Boris really has any gonads, at that stage he'll walk away and we'll leave on WTO which I believe is still our best option. The Remoaners though, are not the sort of people that give up easily.

Realistically, I fear the worst but am hoping for the best.
 
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30-40bn was the reasonable due based on previous EU budget UK signed up to, giving us some sort of a transition deal. We have had 3 years to get ready but UK Gov has done diddly dot.

As for EU position, yes extension will be granted but only on the proviso new elections or referendum might be held.

I think every blind man and his dog knows the country needs an election or Brexit referendum.

Over to you democracy experts.


Either way, THE most important thing - above all else IMO - is that some semblance of democracy is seen to be served which will enable life to carry on more or less as normal.

I find this quote really feeble. Our Parliament is our democratic process. It is not a matter of seen to be democratic but being so.

Lost count how many times I've repeated the referendum was only advisory and Parliament has tried to debate and reach some decisions but numbers didn't add up. Even though DUP was bribed by a few £100m per vote.

That was democracy at work. We also have had post-referendum elections and Tories lost the majority.

The fact that some hard nut Brexiteers don't perceive that as their comprehension of democracy is neither here or there. The highest court in the land has also ruled on it.

It beggars belief that you can put up some feeble line about being seen to be as such whilst ignoring the hard democratic truth played out in Parliament.

And now the same very scoundrels will turn the next elections to be about people versus the establishment. Sort of a fancy show style revolution. What's difficult to stomach is it is manipulated by the very rich snotty people who don't give a hoot about the people, social services or paying their way in the UK but prefer to loiter their money into safe havens.


Experts on democracy need to get a grip imho.
 
In my very humble opinion, Boris has canvassed just enough MP's to make it look like he was doing the right thing but not enough to win the vote. The vote will be lost and the UK will leave the EU with no deal which was the desired outcome.
Pure speculation only time will tell.
 
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