Brexit and the Consequences

[timsk]

Steady teady... Smarter does not mean thick and I didn't say that.

At',
You're in danger of digging yourself into a deeper hole. 'Smarter' is merely an antonym for 'thick', so 0007's interpretation of your post is spot on and I (and I fully expect all other subscribers to this thread) came to exactly the same conclusion as him.

The graph you posted shows the correlation of leave voters to people with a degree. Having a degree does not mean you're smarter than someone without one. There's no connection; it's as daft as suggesting that someone who likes modern art is smarter than someone who hates it.

My interpretation of the graph is that if you have a degree you're more likely to vote remain. The reason for this is because - as we all know - degree courses for the most part are offered by universities which are left wing remain dominated institutions. People with degrees have been indoctrinated with PC, left wing identity politics and immersed in a culture where removing the blinkers and thinking for themselves is largely frowned upon. Conversely, people without degrees are not saddled with said leftist ideology, can see past all the BS and think (very well) for themselves.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Timsk,

The stats are what they are. You can draw your own conclusion along with 0007. Predominantly, the less well educated along with the elderly voted for Brexit. The releatively young population who were entitled to vote, were scratching their scrotums and weren't really bothered to vote.

The KEY point I am making and based on Farage/Govey and quite a few other Brexiteers pov is that Brexit is not a simple event or act. It is a highly complex set of inter-related rules, laws and standards that govern our trading arrangements not with just the EU but with 60+ agreements that EU has formed with the rest of the World. This is a marriage of 45 years. Even just two couples have issues over seperating joint interests and there are some special rules and laws that govern divorce. No other country has left the EU before so this is a first.

If Take Back Control defines Brexit to you all well and good. If that is the case however, you should respect the vote based system of Parliamentary Sovereignty. Referendum result is not law. Cameron promised and then resigned as he could not deliver. TM held elections and lost Cameron's majority. Three years down the line Brexit fiasco is clear for most but not for the intransigent Brexiteers. Handful of Eurosceptics who are wagging the country by the tail.

Let me put it this way as an analogy. If one were talking about removing a cancerous tumor the how to instrutction can be simply put in three steps. Cut open the body where tumor is located. Cut out the tumor. Stitch the body back up. Simples.

Brexit is simple too. We leave. We revert to WTO rules. We make new trade agreements all over the world.

You don't have to be smart to understand the instructions given to you. Smart person might say whoa hold on, lets think about this. The less than average smart body wouldn't stop to think, because they understand the clear simple instructions given to them. I'm going to hazard a guess you and 007 happy to lie on the table and let the Brexiteers have their way with you coz they tell ya it's simples.

There are god fearing people out there who still believe wind is caused by trees swaying left and right. Think about it.

 

[barjon]

Mmm, the debate seems to have taken an unhealthy turn. I simply don’t buy it that people didn’t properly exercise their minds in casting their vote. Maybe many on both sides didn’t apply Signalcalc’s rigour in fully testing the “facts” that were put before them, but that’s another story.



In any event atilla’s graph shows the range of “intellectual” intelligence only. Equally valid when it came to weighing up the choice is “streetwise” intelligence and “life experience” intelligence.

 

[Signalcalc]

To base any argument on a perceived level of intelligence and a few stats is childish and naive.

If ever anyone made a full study into the academic levels of voter choices we would need the full breakdown of degree types, year attained uni attained etc.

Otherwise it’s a pointless divisive argument that remain are especially prone to.

 

[timsk]

. . . I'm going to hazard a guess you and 007 happy to lie on the table and let the Brexiteers have their way with you coz they tell ya it's simples. . .

At',
Sounds to me like you're saying that I and 0007 aren't very smart - or do I mean thick? Well, you're probably right in my case, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Brexit is anything like as complicated as remoaners make it out to be. That's been part of their strategy all along: to give the impression that leaving the EU is not just difficult - it's next to impossible. That of course - to my thick idiot mind at least - is all the more reason to leave.

The EU doesn't want us to leave because they lose our money and it sets a precedent to others. Remoaners say it's complicated and use that as a reason not to leave and as a way to excuse themselves for not delivering on the referendum result. Well, sorry, but I'm just not buying it. It's not for me to speak for 0007, Sig', c_v and other Brexiteers on here - but I'll wager they don't buy it either, along with the bulk of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit. Increasingly, ordinary remainers (as opposed to remoaners) aren't buying it either. We're the 5th largest economy in the world and the idea that we can't stand on our own two feet and conduct our affairs without the help of a bunch of Belgian bureaucrats is absolute tosh of the highest order. I know it, you know, everyone knows it. Even super smart degree educated clever people know it!
Tim.
PS. I have a B.A. (Hons) degree. However, it's only a Desmond, so it probably doesn't count.

 

[Atilla]

Point I'm trying to make is the Brexit event is not simple and WTO is not an option or a choice. It is simply a base default position in the absence of any other alternative.

Anyone who says Brexit is simple, is not being honest about the challenges or the risks in that event.

Whether one believes the assertions made by the Brexit camp or the scare stories made by some remainers both are personal judgement calls.


Just seen your post Tim, well I guess the will of the people need to play out through our Sovereign Parliament.

 

[counter_violent]

At',
Sounds to me like you're saying that I and 0007 aren't very smart - or do I mean thick? Well, you're probably right in my case, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Brexit is anything like as complicated as remoaners make it out to be. That's been part of their strategy all along: to give the impression that leaving the EU is not just difficult - it's next to impossible. That of course - to my thick idiot mind at least - is all the more reason to leave.

The EU doesn't want us to leave because they lose our money and it sets a precedent to others. Remoaners say it's complicated and use that as a reason not to leave and as a way to excuse themselves for not delivering on the referendum result. Well, sorry, but I'm just not buying it. It's not for me to speak for 0007, Sig', c_v and other Brexiteers on here - but I'll wager they don't buy it either, along with the bulk of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit. Increasingly, ordinary remainers (as opposed to remoaners) aren't buying it either. We're the 5th largest economy in the world and the idea that we can't stand on our own two feet and conduct our affairs without the help of a bunch of Belgian bureaucrats is absolute tosh of the highest order. I know it, you know, everyone knows it. Even super smart degree educated clever people know it!
Tim.
PS. I have a B.A. (Hons) degree. However, it's only a Desmond, so it probably doesn't count.

If I know One thing it is this.

Business is in the business of adapting on a daily basis. It's the only constant that they know and it will be no different when we get a proper Brexit delivered. The economy won't collapse. Trade is trade whoever the parties involved might be.

Oh and here's something else I know.

Economists forecasts should be taken with a pinch of salt. They never get anything right because they can't forecast for human nature. Who was it said...."for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". The same equation could be applied to economics. People will adapt to their circumstances. Govt's will change policies according to requirements. Business's will adapt to the change. Everything will be just fine.

Hopefully the multi-nationals will hate it. More competition, less protection, less barriers to entry etc. They have been cosseted for far too long. The scurge of the business world they are.

Ps......A Desmond is way better than a Vorderman.

 

[counter_violent]

Point I'm trying to make is the Brexit event is not simple and WTO is not an option or a choice. It is simply a base default position in the absence of any other alternative.

Anyone who says Brexit is simple, is not being honest about the challenges or the risks in that event.

Whether one believes the assertions made by the Brexit camp or the scare stories made by some remainers both are personal judgement calls.


Just seen your post Tim, well I guess the will of the people need to play out through our Sovereign Parliament.

Sovereignty of Parliament.

You are clearly having a Steffi Graff m8. They are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. They have all been exposed as the useful idiots that they are.


Farage is on a roll. The Brexit Party is busy selecting candidates who have actually done something in the real world. The sort of people that represent the people because they are the people. So after the European elections, then we recruit candidates for the General Election.

We warned you this was coming. It really should be no surprise and guess what.....there's sod all you can do about it.

 

[Atilla]

Hopefully the multi-nationals will hate it. More competition, less protection, less barriers to entry etc. They have been cosseted for far too long. The scurge of the business world they are.

FTSE earns 75% of earnings from else where.

They will simply relocate. Unilever is one example. Shareholders may change their position post Brexit.

Alternatively, if UK carries out threat to reduce corporation tax to attract HQs to locate in the UK, that will start a real economic war with EU and imo further reduce tax revenue. That's likely to lead to less teachers, police, nurses and doctors. UK will see more dead towns. Less local funding by government inevitably lead to rising business rates. Some pretty hard times up ahead imo.

Motor industry will go into decline as Nissan carries out relocation plans.

Moggy boy has already moved part of his operation to Ireland back in 2018.

Dyson opening factory in China.

If Labour gets in to power eventually when people realise Tories / Brexit party are destroying UK and get elected, thus raising taxation, this will simply lead to more businesses leaving. Economic forecasts are not always wrong. They are simply inaccurate.


Multi-nationals will hate it you say? They will adapt yes by leaving the UK. As for small businesses they'll simply suffer as investment and brain drain leaves for EU and other countries. UK industry will end up paying a higher salary tring to attract/train skilled staff and have a higher cost of doing business imho.

 

[counter_violent]

The enlightened among us predicted the demise of the established order and it's fast coming to fruition. The disruptors have arrived in mainstream politics.

https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-party-overtake-conservatives-in-general-election-poll/

 

[Atilla]

The enlightened among us predicted the demise of the established order and it's fast coming to fruition. The disruptors have arrived in mainstream politics.

https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-party-overtake-conservatives-in-general-election-poll/

Interesting poll numbers there thanks CV.

So 34% for the Brexit party in the MEP and
23% for possible national elections; Brexit + UKIP combined.

Hardly a majority. More like one third. However, it is higher than I anticipated. Some Eurosceptics who still infest the Tory party may increase that 23% number but still insufficient for a majority imo.


Simply that Brexiteers are shouting so much louder along with the daily trash imo.


Farage on Marr show got a little ratty this morning. When asked what Brexit Party or he would have done if in TM's place, he said TM never asked for a Free Trade deal. I think Andrew Marr missed a trick in not asking isn't what we have now with EU a free trade area? What a daft reply he kept repeating. EU simply would say no. Why would they allow a free trade agreement to UK without UK being bound to trading rules. He really doesn't understand what he is talking about. Of course, he repeated WTO as if that's a plan. WTO is not an option to be chosen. It is the absence of any choice. It's like one can fly, sail, drive or catch the train to a destination. If you don't have those options one can always walk. Farage's big plan is for UK to walk to said Great destination.

He tried to dismiss Norway and Swiss models away too. Deals he favoured so proudly before. Slight shift in stance. When all those chickens come home to roost he'll have more of these to bat away by stating let's talk about now not what I said before the referendum. LOL.

Oh and then there was that we should have a referendum climb down as well. He was only preparing for one because that's what was touted in Parliament. Not something he thinks mind help clear the air as he thought it may do last year.

Beware of Mr Shifty. Big mouth when firing from the sidelines but when he is put in the driving seat, I think he'll be way out of his depth. Responsibility is a heavy burden to carry when making a decision that'll affect the livelihood of millions.

 

[counter_violent]

Interesting poll numbers there thanks CV.

So 34% for the Brexit party in the MEP and
23% for possible national elections; Brexit + UKIP combined.

Hardly a majority. More like one third. However, it is higher than I anticipated. Some Eurosceptics who still infest the Tory party may increase that 23% number but still insufficient for a majority imo.


Simply that Brexiteers are shouting so much louder along with the daily trash imo.


Farage on Marr show got a little ratty this morning. When asked what Brexit Party or he would have done if in TM's place, he said TM never asked for a Free Trade deal. I think Andrew Marr missed a trick in not asking isn't what we have now with EU a free trade area? What a daft reply he kept repeating. EU simply would say no. Why would they allow a free trade agreement to UK without UK being bound to trading rules. He really doesn't understand what he is talking about. Of course, he repeated WTO as if that's a plan. WTO is not an option to be chosen. It is the absence of any choice. It's like one can fly, sail, drive or catch the train to a destination. If you don't have those options one can always walk. Farage's big plan is for UK to walk to said Great destination.

He tried to dismiss Norway and Swiss models away too. Deals he favoured so proudly before. Slight shift in stance. When all those chickens come home to roost he'll have more of these to bat away by stating let's talk about now not what I said before the referendum. LOL.

Oh and then there was that we should have a referendum climb down as well. He was only preparing for one because that's what was touted in Parliament. Not something he thinks mind help clear the air as he thought it may do last year.

Beware of Mr Shifty. Big mouth when firing from the sidelines but when he is put in the driving seat, I think he'll be way out of his depth. Responsibility is a heavy burden to carry when making a decision that'll affect the livelihood of millions.

Well iv'e just watched Marr's interview with Farage and I have to say that Marr typifies the attitude of the establishment supporting BBC. The BBC needs putting out of it's misery. Disgusting propaganda machine that we are paying for. Unbelievable.

I urge everyone to watch this performance and then give your feedback.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052y9/the-andrew-marr-show-12052019

 

[0007]

Well iv'e just watched Marr's interview with Farage and I have to say that Marr typifies the attitude of the establishment supporting BBC. The BBC needs putting out of it's misery. Disgusting propaganda machine that we are paying for. Unbelievable.

I urge everyone to watch this performance and then give your feedback.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052y9/the-andrew-marr-show-12052019

The BBC, like the Government and some other Remainers who just won't accept a democratic vote, are in denial.

 

[0007]

 

[Signalcalc]

Question time. Marr show.

Farage 2 : BBC 0

 

[Atilla]

View attachment 262666View attachment 262666

So assuming these elections sort of reflect a 2nd referendum of sorts, all hard brexiteers are voting for the Brexit party to leave without a deal defaulting to a WTO position, 34% is not really that much of a big majority is it.

Especially considering the Brexit vote isn't broken by UKIP.

Effectively two thirds of the country seem to be confused or positive remainers.

One third are hard core Brexiteers.


All you geezers rabbiting on about democracy... aren't you missing somefink?


We live in interesting times

 

[timsk]

. . . All you geezers rabbiting on about democracy... aren't you missing somefink? . . .

No At', we're not missing anyfink.

What you're missing is that hard core remainers will vote LibDem, Green or Change UK. That's 31%. Brexit party and UKIP are at 37%. Now if you split the Tories, Labour and 'Other' down the middle (which is being EXTREMELY generous to remainers), then you can add another 16% to leavers and remainers respectively. So, the final scores at the doors are:
Leave: 53%
Remain: 47%
That's a much more accurate and fairer interpretation of the poll IMO, and shows that Brexiteers are very much in poll position. Did you see what I did there - clever eh!
Tim.

 

[barjon]

No At', we're not missing anyfink.

View attachment 262748

What you're missing is that hard core remainers will vote LibDem, Green or Change UK. That's 31%. Brexit party and UKIP are at 37%. Now if you split the Tories, Labour and 'Other' down the middle (which is being EXTREMELY generous to remainers), then you can add another 16% to leavers and remainers respectively. So, the final scores at the doors are:
Leave: 53%
Remain: 47%
That's a much more accurate and fairer interpretation of the poll IMO, and shows that Brexiteers are very much in poll position. Did you see what I did there - clever eh!
Tim.

Clever stuff, Tim . Mind you, how the half-a-dozen who actually bother to vote break down is anyone’s guess.

 

[0007]

Brexit on 34% after only 4 weeks – that is significant.

The mess will only be resolved by a General election. Without cleaning out the current rotten Parliament there is little hope. I see that somebody is already making a start!

 

[Atilla]

Not accurate at all.

You can get creative, slice and dice any way you like.

Democratic will of the people - 34% for Brexit, rest 66% simply not interested in hard brexit.


Numbers game innit. Don't add up. Dooohhhhhh.