Brexit and the Consequences

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
Given that you're a remainer, I'd be interested to hear how you (and Atilla et al) interpret the testimonies provided by Steve Baker and Suella Braverman to the European Scrutiny Committee. To my mind, either they are lying through their teeth or the situation is every bit as clear cut as I described it in my post. To save you searching for the YouTube links, I'll attach them here. The first one is the main one - but the other two are well worth watching if you've not done so already.
Tim.

]

Tim,

Don’t you find it interesting that very little has been said or is being said today (as MPs consider various options ) about the so-called deal that was on the point of being finalised by DD and his crew and “offered” by the EU? You’d have thought brexiteers would have been shouting the house down about it and DD would never have stopped crowing about it as the chaos unfolded instead of apparently rowing in to support TM’s deal. According to reports it’s not even clear whether a Canada style deal will be one of the options considered.

Maybe things aren’t as clear cut as it appeared?

 

[Signalcalc]

Hmm, I take it you're referring to the former self that included the Nazi years...or perhaps the one that covered the family squabble 20 years earlier? You never know, we might yet get back to that other yet still earlier self of the 19th century where the Germans (some of them, anyway) decided the battle of Waterloo in our favour and the shape of Europe for the next 50 odd years.

As Germany evolves, so do the threats, whether they be financial, cultural, political, military or otherwise. Looks like they are evolving to set up a financial disaster followed by a Jihadi disaster, followed by ........... a Russian conflict disaster?

Or maybe a change of German regime will avert some of that? Who knows?

 

[cantagril]

As Germany evolves, so do the threats, whether they be financial, cultural, political, military or otherwise. Looks like they are evolving to set up a financial disaster followed by a Jihadi disaster, followed by ........... a Russian conflict disaster?

Or maybe a change of German regime will avert some of that? Who knows?

Of course, Regime Change! Just as well they don't have any oil.

 

[counter_violent]

Tim,

Don’t you find it interesting that very little has been said or is being said today (as MPs consider various options ) about the so-called deal that was on the point of being finalised by DD and his crew and “offered” by the EU? You’d have thought brexiteers would have been shouting the house down about it and DD would never have stopped crowing about it as the chaos unfolded instead of apparently rowing in to support TM’s deal. According to reports it’s not even clear whether a Canada style deal will be one of the options considered.

Maybe things aren’t as clear cut as it appeared?

What ya on about!

DD and others resigned cos the appeaser did an about turn on them with Chequers, which was not the deal that everyone thought they were working on.

Skulduggery 101

The mood changed that weekend in question from one of optimism to sell out.

 

[barjon]

Hi

What ya on about!

DD and others resigned cos the appeaser did an about turn on them with Chequers, which was not the deal that everyone thought they were working on.

Skulduggery 101

The mood changed that weekend in question from one of optimism to sell out.

Yes, and so they would be shouting all the louder that we should have stuck with the deal they nearly had finalised. The silence speaks volumes.

 

[Signalcalc]

Of course, Regime Change! Just as well they don't have any oil.

They don’t have any democracy either! Unless the EU is classed as democracy [emoji23]

 

[timsk]

. . .Maybe things aren’t as clear cut as it appeared?

Hi Jon,
I agree with you that things aren't necessarily as clear cut as they first appear and maybe that's the case here. My post(s) on this aspect of Brexit were based on the testimonies of Steve Baker and Suella Braveman. If I had their ear and that of David Davis' - I'd certainly put the point you make to them. As it is, I can only guess at their reply, which I imagine would be along the lines that Mrs. May has tunnel vision and refuses point blank to consider any alternative options to her deal which, as we now know, isn't her deal at all but the EU's deal. And, as c_v points out, all three ministers resigned over the issue.
Tim.

 

[Signalcalc]

Do you think he’s got his timing right?

Macron moves to force civil servants to work 35 hours a week
https://mol.im/a/6855601

 

[barjon]

Been tuned in to the debate(s). Looks like the DUP holds the country and its future in their hands. If they will support May’s deal the ERG will follow suit. All bets off if they don’t - I can hear Ian Paisley laughing in his grave from here.

 

[counter_violent]

Been tuned in to the debate(s). Looks like the DUP holds the country and its future in their hands. If they will support May’s deal the ERG will follow suit. All bets off if they don’t - I can hear Ian Paisley laughing in his grave from here.

Have they nothing better to do than endlessly debate non issues.
It's extremely doubtful that Mays crappy deal will even get to MV3.

Even Oliver Letwin has stated today.

Conservative backbencher Sir Oliver Letwin, whose cross-party proposal ushered in today's debate, said the only way leaving the EU with no-deal can be prevented is by crystallising an alternative majority and trying to carry it forward.

Here's the list of pointless topics for discussion.

• No-deal Brexit - Leave the EU on 12 April without a deal - Tory MP John Baron
• Common Market 2.0 - The UK joins the European Economic Area and negotiates a temporary customs union until alternative arrangements can be found - Tory MP Nick Boles
• EFTA/EEA - Similar to Common Market 2.0 but rejects any kind of customs union with the EU and says the Irish backstop must be replaced with alternative arrangements - Tory MP George Eustice
• Customs union - Calls for the UK to negotiate a permanent customs union with the EU after Brexit - Tory MP Ken Clarke
• Labour's alternative plan - A customs union with the EU and "close alignment" with the single market - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
• Revoke Article 50 - Cancel Brexit if the UK gets within days of leaving without a deal. MPs would be asked to vote on a no-deal exit and if they rejected that, Article 50 would be revoked - SNP MP Joanna Cherry
• Confirmatory public vote - Parliament cannot ratify or implement any agreement on the UK's withdrawal and future relationship "unless and until they have been approved by the people of the UK in a confirmatory public ballot" - Labour MP Margaret Beckett
• Malthouse Plan B - The UK makes its budgetary contributions to the EU to the end of 2020 and agrees with the EU a period of two years in which UK goods have full access to the EU - Tory MP Marcus Fysh

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47715933

 

[barjon]

Apparently Boris will now support the May deal and JRM will if DUP don’t vote against, abstain will do. Beginning to look as though she’ll get it through.

 

[Atilla]

TM says she'll step down if her deal gets passed.

Have I got this wrong?

TM should already have stepped down precisely because her deal failed the vote twice in Parliament.

I would expect her to stay and see her deal through if it does get passed.

I still can't stomach paying £39bn for a two year transition deal. Shocking.


Where is the logic in this perspective? What a farce!


TM is a remarkably stupid person and all the politicians who follow her in the name of party unity above and beyond country.

 

[counter_violent]

Apparently Boris will now support the May deal and JRM will if DUP don’t vote against, abstain will do. Beginning to look as though she’ll get it through.

No it isn't.

Bercow has again stated today that unless it is substantially amended, he will not allow it.

 

[Atilla]

No it isn't.

Bercow has again stated today that unless it is substantially amended, he will not allow it.

Superman. Top call. Good one.

Gets my vote.

We need to stop that moo moo playing silly buggers with Parliament.

 

[barjon]

No it isn't.

Bercow has again stated today that unless it is substantially amended, he will not allow it.

Well, he was happy enough to dispense with parliamentary precedent today in allowing the indicative votes so I dare say he’ll be persuaded that some further back stop assurance represents “substantial change”

 

[Signalcalc]

There’s a maypole dancer.
Theresa May, pole dancer.

 

[Atilla]

I thought Angela Eagle really put it well.

TM is an absolute despicable and most unethical PM of our time blackmailing Parliament.

First in contempt of Parliament and now blackmailing MPs to vote for her deal and she'll leave and if they don't she'll fight the will of Parliament for her pov which obviously has no support in Parliament.

Amazing wretched soul. I'm utterly disgusted and repulsed by her.

Same goes for Tory party.

Appalling conduct.

 

[barjon]

I thought Angela Eagle really put it well.

TM is an absolute despicable and most unethical PM of our time blackmailing Parliament.

First in contempt of Parliament and now blackmailing MPs to vote for her deal and she'll leave and if they don't she'll fight the will of Parliament for her pov which obviously has no support in Parliament.

Amazing wretched soul. I'm utterly disgusted and repulsed by her.

Same goes for Tory party.

Appalling conduct.

Just a tad ott Atilla, dear fellow

 

[counter_violent]

I thought Angela Eagle really put it well.

TM is an absolute despicable and most unethical PM of our time blackmailing Parliament.

First in contempt of Parliament and now blackmailing MPs to vote for her deal and she'll leave and if they don't she'll fight the will of Parliament for her pov which obviously has no support in Parliament.

Amazing wretched soul. I'm utterly disgusted and repulsed by her.

Same goes for Tory party.

Appalling conduct.

We still don't believe any of your outrage.

FlipFlopper.

 

[counter_violent]

Well, he was happy enough to dispense with parliamentary precedent today in allowing the indicative votes so I dare say he’ll be persuaded that some further back stop assurance represents “substantial change”

Well, good luck with that. You have 2 days and One of those is supposedly a holiday.