Brexit and the Consequences

So as the recession gathers pace across Europe, there is the very real possibility that QE will start again. So come on you remoaners, tell us once again that we are bonkers to be leaving this wonderful economic powerhouse.

Last time i'm going to tell you........there is no growth in the EU without printing press stimulus.

Att has a proven track record, gets everything wrong, you shouldn't listen to a word he says.

Only Brexiteers know what they are talking about as we have proven time and again. (y)

Yeah, you brexiteers know it all because you live in a dream world of your own :love:

Wonder if you could explain to me how our businesses are going to escape the petty-fogging EU rules and regulations regardless of whether the exit is soft or hard? Even with “no deal” they will only be able to sell their goods in the EU marketplace if they comply with those rules and regulations - same as EU companies will need to comply with ours.

So even “no deal” doesn’t cut us all that free if we wish to remain involved in our most important market.
 
Yeah, you brexiteers know it all because you live in a dream world of your own :love:

Wonder if you could explain to me how our businesses are going to escape the petty-fogging EU rules and regulations regardless of whether the exit is soft or hard? Even with “no deal” they will only be able to sell their goods in the EU marketplace if they comply with those rules and regulations - same as EU companies will need to comply with ours.

So even “no deal” doesn’t cut us all that free if we wish to remain involved in our most important market.

Being free isn’t all about economics though is it?
 
Why?



What's voluntary? What wouldn’t stop states from leaving what - exactly?



I didn't hear that, whereabouts is it in the video?

The whole video is full of inaccuracies. They claim just before 15:15 that UK will be pressured to sign up to the single currency. First time I'm hearing this. There is no obligation to any membership in the EU or the single currency.

15:15 they start talking about econmics. Ian Milne is supposed to an economist.

He starts off with EU model is not copied anywhere in the world. Actually the common market free trade areas are. Simply that they are not advanced or integrated as EU is. Before EU no such model existed. Video is misleading. Yes EU Model in entirety doesn't exist but CUSTOMS UNIONS and FREE TRADE areas do exist. Anyone with any decency would call this out as deceptive mind boggling crap to the unaware layman.

They say not even USA with subtitle FREE TRADE but that's misleading because NAFTA is one of the biggest FREE TRADE areas.

They even have the audacity to claim not EVEN China or India have opted for European type agreement. Well they have actually, simply that they do not have the degree of integration we have. The speel is factually inaccurate and misleading with CUSTOM UNION and FREE TRADE. They do have these. The key differentiating factor is Treaty of Rome and European Court of Justice. As mentioned before we share common values and principals unlike the Chinese or Indians and what with all the unfair government intervention and subsidies and mixed command economy used in China they can only dream of reaching our EU model only if they can sort their national issues out.

Check out these common free trade agreement areas.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/05/world-free-trade-areas-everything-you-need-to-know/


Listening again, I have mis-interpreted this quote. Starting at 16:18.

They claim 90% of the UK economy is not involved in exporting to the EU not that 90% of UK exports go to non-EU countries.

However, presenting these numbers is misleading. If 10% of the economy exports 42% of all trade to EU then there is a great deal of jobs and value there in comparison to the 90% of the economy exporting to the rest of non-EU countries ie 58%. This is playing silly buggers with statistics. Brexiteers minds are being buggered with would be my take. Think about it.

PS. My mis-interpretation wasn't deliberate on my part. Just a mistake. Hope that explains it. This picture doesn't help me but leads me to misjudge the tosh they were dolling out. My apologies.
1551629739820.png


They claim US exports more to EU than UK does. Well of course they would being USA their economy is the largest in the World. What a pathetic claim to make in comparison with the UK. It's like comparing a light weight boxer with a heavyweight stating Heavy Weight packs a bigger punch. Where is the comparison.

Do you Brexiteer guys think about what is being dished out to the average layman. Anyone who remotely considers him self to be a principled reasonable academic would question these assertions to mislead without qualifying percentages indicating relativity.


So what % of the UK workforce do these 90% employ compared to the 10% who do export to the EU.

Do you think if 10% of companies lose some of that 42% of all exports lose markets that some how it will not have any effect on the rest of UK industry?

They are seriously stirring and skewing with the layman's brains abusing statistics.


Yours truly,


(y)
 
Yeah, you brexiteers know it all because you live in a dream world of your own :love:

Wonder if you could explain to me how our businesses are going to escape the petty-fogging EU rules and regulations regardless of whether the exit is soft or hard? Even with “no deal” they will only be able to sell their goods in the EU marketplace if they comply with those rules and regulations - same as EU companies will need to comply with ours.

So even “no deal” doesn’t cut us all that free if we wish to remain involved in our most important market.

Att has been struggling with the numbers again.:LOL:
92% of all business done by the UK has sod all to do with Europe and yet 100% of all businesses have to follow EU rules. This creates barriers to entry which is why the big boys love the EU and its rules n regs. So, I wonder f you can explain to me why we should pander to the 8% of the UK economy that does business with the EU?

Of course our businesses who trade with the EU should abide by the rules and vice versa UK, but what has that got to do with all the rest of our businesses who have to follow the rules simply to exist?
 
Att has been struggling with the numbers again.:LOL:
92% of all business done by the UK has sod all to do with Europe and yet 100% of all businesses have to follow EU rules. This creates barriers to entry which is why the big boys love the EU and its rules n regs. So, I wonder f you can explain to me why we should pander to the 8% of the UK economy that does business with the EU?

Of course our businesses who trade with the EU should abide by the rules and vice versa UK, but what has that got to do with all the rest of our businesses who have to follow the rules simply to exist?

Can you give an example please so we know what you are referring to.
 
Att has been struggling with the numbers again.:LOL:
92% of all business done by the UK has sod all to do with Europe and yet 100% of all businesses have to follow EU rules. This creates barriers to entry which is why the big boys love the EU and its rules n regs. So, I wonder f you can explain to me why we should pander to the 8% of the UK economy that does business with the EU?

Of course our businesses who trade with the EU should abide by the rules and vice versa UK, but what has that got to do with all the rest of our businesses who have to follow the rules simply to exist?

Yes, fair point (which would be even fairer if the UK doesn’t adopt most of them ;))

I think your %age is bit low - thought exports to EU represent about 12 - 15% of our economy.
 
Labour's leaked ballot paper, looks like Labour have been listening to Theresa May's options for a second referendum:
Ballot.jpg
 
Att has been struggling with the numbers again.:LOL:
92% of all business done by the UK has sod all to do with Europe and yet 100% of all businesses have to follow EU rules. This creates barriers to entry which is why the big boys love the EU and its rules n regs. So, I wonder f you can explain to me why we should pander to the 8% of the UK economy that does business with the EU?

Of course our businesses who trade with the EU should abide by the rules and vice versa UK, but what has that got to do with all the rest of our businesses who have to follow the rules simply to exist?

The ONS and HMRC are using different numbers - fake, of course, in preparation for us ditching all those annoying health regs that stop us importing those mutant radioactive chickens from the US.

"Being a member of the EU allows the UK to trade freely with 27 other countries. In 2016, the EU1 accounted for 48% of goods exports from the UK, while goods imports from the EU were worth more than imports from the rest of the world combined."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindu...ade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

"Non-EU Trade in Goods:
Exports for December 2018 were £13.5 billion. This was a decrease of £2.2 billion (14%) on last month, and a decrease of £2.6 billion (16.1%) compared with December 2017. "


"EU Trade in Goods:
Exports for December 2018 were £12.8 billion. This was a decrease of £2.1 billion (14%) on last month, and a small decrease of 0.4% compared with December 2017. "


https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/EU_and_Non-EU_Data.aspx
 
I'll take a wild guess that someone is mixing their stats up :LOL:, is Diane Abbot in the house?

Almost half (48%) of UK goods exports went to the EU in 2016. UK goods exports to the EU were worth £145 billion in 2016, or 7.4% of GDP.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindu...ade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

You've missed services out.


Almost half (48%) of UK goods exports went to the EU in 2016. UK goods exports to the EU were worth £145 billion in 2016, or 7.4% of GDP.

Motor vehicles and parts is the largest product group by value of exports: the UK exported £18 billion of motor vehicles (and trailers) to the EU in 2016. The next largest product group exported to the EU is chemicals and chemical products, £15 billion in 2016.

Meanwhile, 37% of UK service exports went to the EU in 2016, down from 40% in 2015. Financial services contributed more than a quarter of the UK’s services exports to the EU (£27 billion out of £90 billion).
 
I'll take a wild guess that someone is mixing their stats up :LOL:, is Diane Abbot in the house?

Almost half (48%) of UK goods exports went to the EU in 2016. UK goods exports to the EU were worth £145 billion in 2016, or 7.4% of GDP.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindu...ade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

And in the House of Commons Library papers uk exports to eu were £274 billion which lifts the %age to near 15%. https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851. Your figures just goods I guess.
 
The whole video is full of inaccuracies. They claim just before 15:15 that UK will be pressured to sign up to the single currency. First time I'm hearing this.

If this is the first time you hearing this then, you are not very widely read. What he actually said was:

"signing up to the EU constitution would undoubtably increase the pressure on Britain to enter the single currency"

Why is it that you think the EU is not in the business of more political and economic integration and would therefore not apply pressure to join the Euro at any opportunity as I'm sure it already does?:rolleyes:

There is no obligation to any membership in the EU or the single currency.

Really, and who is to say that more pressure won't be applied post-2020 or if national government changes and decides that we now meet the 5 economic tests set out by Gordon Brown? The stated end goal of the EUSSR is complete and total political, economic, fiscal and cultural union, nothing else is acceptable, you either join as Borg or are destroyed by the EU gulag (EU gulag building underway BTW: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/10/eu-internet-censorship-will-censor-whole-worlds-internet)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance...l-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100314/why-doesnt-england-use-euro.asp

15:15 they start talking about econmics. Ian Milne is supposed to an economist.

He starts off with EU model is not copied anywhere in the world. Actually the common market free trade areas are.

Wrong! I don't know what film you have been watching or through what type of distorted lens you are using, he states that: there is a huge misconception that the EU political and economic model represents the future, big mistake. And then he goes onto explain that the EU model is copied nowhere in the developed world (USA, Japan, S.Korea, Oz etc), and that customs unions have existed in Africa, Russia and satellites.

Simply that they are not advanced or integrated as EU is. Before EU no such model existed. Video is misleading. Yes EU Model in entirety doesn't exist but CUSTOMS UNIONS and FREE TRADE areas do exist. Anyone with any decency would call this out as deceptive mind boggling crap to the unaware layman.

Your interpretation of "EU political and economic model represents the future, big mistake" is deceptively mind boggling to even the most intelligent Sri Lankian! You twist the video's words without somehow realising we can all go and watch the same video and listen to a different explanation than the one you attempt to provide.

They say not even USA with subtitle FREE TRADE but that's misleading because NAFTA is one of the biggest FREE TRADE areas.

Does NAFTA impose political and economic integration on it members, like the EU does? No? Then let's stick to the context shall we: "EU political and economic model represents the future, big mistake"

They even have the audacity to claim not EVEN China or India have opted for European type agreement. Well they have actually, simply that they do not have the degree of integration we have.

So it's not the same. He explains that the China/India model is "user friendly, govt to govt, light touch", so absolutely nothing like the EU integration model: "EU political and economic model represents the future, big mistake"

The speel is factually inaccurate and misleading with CUSTOM UNION and FREE TRADE. They do have these. The key differentiating factor is Treaty of Rome and European Court of Justice. As mentioned before we share common values and principals unlike the Chinese or Indians and what with all the unfair government intervention and subsidies and mixed command economy used in China they can only dream of reaching our EU model only if they can sort their national issues out.

Yourself and the EU are entitled to think what you like about shared common values and principals, there are quite a few million that disagree with you and EU. And to think that you think the Chinese aspire to the EU model, what are you, Chinese or somethink?


Oh yes, that only proves that we don't need the EU for free trade agreements, thanks for making the Brexit argument (y)

Listening again, I have mis-interpreted this quote. Starting at 16:18.

They claim 90% of the UK economy is not involved in exporting to the EU not that 90% of UK exports go to non-EU countries.

However, presenting these numbers is misleading. If 10% of the economy exports 42% of all trade to EU then there is a great deal of jobs and value there in comparison to the 90% of the economy exporting to the rest of non-EU countries ie 58%. This is playing silly buggers with statistics. Brexiteers minds are being buggered with would be my take. Think about it.

Careful, we'll end up with a Project Fear discussion agn.

They claim US exports more to EU than UK does. Well of course they would being USA their economy is the largest in the World. What a pathetic claim to make in comparison with the UK. It's like comparing a light weight boxer with a heavyweight stating Heavy Weight packs a bigger punch. Where is the comparison.

Taking it out of context again or still need your ears syringing? He's not making the comparison you are making, he is making the point that the US exports more to the EU than the UK "without paying a penny to Brussels or imposing one ounce of regulation on the US economy".

Do you Brexiteer guys think about what is being dished out to the average layman. Anyone who remotely considers him self to be a principled reasonable academic would question these assertions to mislead without qualifying percentages indicating relativity.

It's certainly none of the non-academic, unprofessional interpretation and spin you are trying to put onto this video. I suggest that if you are going to pull a set of arguments apart for examination and to rebuke, that you either listen to what is being said or take off the remainer kaleidoscope you are looking through, it really is fudging with your mind :ROFLMAO:

So what % of the UK workforce do these 90% employ compared to the 10% who do export to the EU.

Do you think if 10% of companies lose some of that 42% of all exports lose markets that some how it will not have any effect on the rest of UK industry?

I thought we were past peak Project Fear? I guess not.
 
Last edited:
And in the House of Commons Library papers uk exports to eu were £274 billion which lifts the %age to near 15%. https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851. Your figures just goods I guess.

Yes it was just goods, as that was the topic of discussion.

Now we're into a different year's stats to the ONS, what's it to be chaps, 2017 or 2016, goods or services or both?

How much fiddling and fudging can we do, I like this game of gibbering like an Abbot, keep playing o_O
 
Yes it was just goods, as that was the topic of discussion.

Now we're into a different year's stats to the ONS, what's it to be chaps, 2017 or 2016, goods or services or both?

How much fiddling and fudging can we do, I like this game of gibbering like an Abbot, keep playing o_O

Yes, thought you’d be smart enough to see that my post was about pointing up the absence of services in your figures and the effect on the overall %age of gdp without me pointing out 2017/2016.
 
Entertaining back and forth there:p

Actually, my posting the links to the ONS & HMRC was precisely to point out that we're in the "lies, damned lies and statistics" environment. Supporting data can easily be and is found by either camp.

With regard to the more existential facets of the EU and the current panto: there is no doubt in my mind that the original conception of the EU was indeed a federation with a supra-national government as an eventual destination. What has bolluxed up that whole process was when a group of pro-federationists tried to accelerate things in advance of what was originally a measured, very long-term saga. The whole point of the Iron and Steel junket was to demonstrate to the members that a multi-national cooperative arrangement was not only possible but practical. Each subsequent stage was to take place when the members as a group were ready. The EU's contribution to the current mess is entirely due to the Federalists desire to make a mark in their own lifetimes and go down in history as heroes - the appalling Tony Blair being just one amongst many. However much my loathing of him and his ilk is based on my personal biases, his day in the sun was as a man of his time and at that time there was no shortage of fellow travellers.

The Federalist camp having gained the ascendant in the hierarchy it was easy to keep Doing the Incremental and try to boil the frog a bit faster without it realising. The events of the last few years have woken the amphibians up to the rising temperatures hence the ongoing Orwellian piggery jokery. The Federalists are hanging on but imo the balance started to move away from them quite some time ago and whilst internal strife might look terminal from this side of the ditch this is by no means a foregone conclusion. What can be regarded as self-destruction from one point of view may turn out to be merely spirited negotiation. My disappointment with Brexit is not with the principle but the manner - I don't believe it is necessary to leave in this way when we could well have stuck around and got the greater part of the concessions we wanted, if it were not for that shite Cameron stamping his ineffectual foot. As it is, an irony of Brexit is that it has made it easier for the other members to fight their corner. New treaties could be in the offing and our absence is a loss to everyone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top