Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

Not at all. Not everyone's on extreme ends. There are reasonable "thinking" people out there.

Elections or Referendum either way driving factor is going to be Brexit.

Worth watching this. Brexit gets a few laughs.

I can’t stand watching BBC comedians anymore, they all seem to be brainwashed into spouting the same left whinge narratives, I wonder why [emoji90][emoji90]

They used to be edgy, now they’ve just become PC it’s too boring.

 

[Signalcalc]

Ok so who should have been in charge of Brexit?

Why were they not in that position?

It is Parliament that makes laws, sets policies and actions motions for debate to be passed as bills. Not a simple referendum.

No point talking shoulda woulda coulda done that and the other. You living in some imaginary world!

I’m not a Tory so I couldn’t answer for who should have been in charge, David Davis seemed a reasonable level headed Brexiteer, your guess is as good as mine. I do know that putting a remainer in charge has been a disaster, it couldn’t be much worse.

Parliament is made up of our elected representatives, the will of the people is to leave. They don’t do anything without a majority vote from the people. The people were consulted, they spoke.

You just have to get over the fact that you lost or are you of the generation that has been taught that there are no losers?

 

[counter_violent]

I’m not a Tory so I couldn’t answer for who should have been in charge, David Davis seemed a reasonable level headed Brexiteer, your guess is as good as mine. I do know that putting a remainer in charge has been a disaster, it couldn’t be much worse.

Parliament is made up of our elected representatives, the will of the people is to leave. They don’t do anything without a majority vote from the people. The people were consulted, they spoke.

You just have to get over the fact that you lost or are you of the generation that has been taught that there are no losers?

I've posted this link before and the boffin elites hate it, probably because it's true. They have no more idea than the ordinary man in the street, but would have you believe that they know best!

 

[Signalcalc]

I've posted this link before and the boffin elites hate it, probably because it's true. They have no more idea than the ordinary man in the street, but would have you believe that they know best!

Careful, Thomas Sowell is in danger of being accused of being a far right, fascist, super Nazi racist

 

[Jason101]

I've posted this link before and the boffin elites hate it, probably because it's true. They have no more idea than the ordinary man in the street, but would have you believe that they know best!

Sorry CV, just lost some respect for you. I thought it was so poor I could only stomach a little of it.
From what I watched it seemed like the version of the old stock tips trick. When someone sends out 1000 different stock tips to a 1000 different people. For the stocks that fail you never hear from the client again and for the stocks that perform well you become a genius and you send more tips and so on until they are begging to pay you for tips.
In other words it was completely retro fitted. A thousand people have said a thousand things. And this guy has hand picked to suit his agenda. What a load of meaningless nonsense.

 

[Signalcalc]

Sorry CV, just lost some respect for you. I thought it was so poor I could only stomach a little of it.
From what I watched it seemed like the version of the old stock tips trick. When someone sends out 1000 different stock tips to a 1000 different people. For the stocks that fail you never hear from the client again and for the stocks that perform well you become a genius and you send more tips and so on until they are begging to pay you for tips.
In other words it was completely retro fitted. A thousand people have said a thousand things. And this guy has hand picked to suit his agenda. What a load of meaningless nonsense.

Would it have been less poor if he had picked a thousand items to discuss rather than a few, to make his point?

 

[cantagril]

You just have to get over the fact that you lost or are you of the generation that has been taught that there are no losers?

The future will show us that we are all losers - the only elements in doubt are the degree and the duration.

 

[cantagril]

Sorry CV, just lost some respect for you. I thought it was so poor I could only stomach a little of it.
From what I watched it seemed like the version of the old stock tips trick. When someone sends out 1000 different stock tips to a 1000 different people. For the stocks that fail you never hear from the client again and for the stocks that perform well you become a genius and you send more tips and so on until they are begging to pay you for tips.
In other words it was completely retro fitted. A thousand people have said a thousand things. And this guy has hand picked to suit his agenda. What a load of meaningless nonsense.

I'm with CV on this one - heretic, that I am. The trouble with ideas are that they are just that. There are very few people who can get it so consistently right so that they are recognised as truly exceptional. Most folk get things right sometimes and having more information, intelligence, wisdom are not necessarily directly related to accurate prediction. If you stick enough tails on enough donkeys some of them will be close enough to the right bit of the àrse end....bit like trading really, certainly mine.

Intellectuals, (both the ones we like and the ones we loathe) earn their bread with the manufacture of ideas. No ideas = no bread. The quality of those ideas is almost completely independent of their currency. You may recall that going back to the beginnings of civilisation, ideas and intellectuals have been responsible for many of the triumphs and tragedies in our brief story in fairly equal measure. Donkey tails.

 

[Signalcalc]

The future will show us that we are all losers - the only elements in doubt are the degree and the duration.

Well if that is your starting point then the only way is up [emoji1]

 

[cantagril]

Well if that is your starting point then the only way is up [emoji1]

Absolutely! My concern is the extent of the intervening and imminent p/b

 

[Atilla]

I'm with CV on this one - heretic, that I am. The trouble with ideas are that they are just that. There are very few people who can get it so consistently right so that they are recognised as truly exceptional. Most folk get things right sometimes and having more information, intelligence, wisdom are not necessarily directly related to accurate prediction. If you stick enough tails on enough donkeys some of them will be close enough to the right bit of the àrse end....bit like trading really, certainly mine.

Intellectuals, (both the ones we like and the ones we loathe) earn their bread with the manufacture of ideas. No ideas = no bread. The quality of those ideas is almost completely independent of their currency. You may recall that going back to the beginnings of civilisation, ideas and intellectuals have been responsible for many of the triumphs and tragedies in our brief story in fairly equal measure. Donkey tails.

What's the difference between ideas and intellectuals?

Brexiteers may have an idea but they are not intellectuals. I know, lets brake away from the EU and trade with the rest of the World. Yes let's do that! What a brilliant idea?

The intellectual having studied shed loads and understands international trade agreements will err on the side of caution.


As for that other Canadian, I doubt many people working large organisations know their CEO's or understand the company structure or hierarchy. So how many CEO's walk the floor or get to know their cleaners? These academics they make valuable points and they are not new. Simply to take an established body of thought and expand it to the current flavour of the month to Brexit or Trump doing well and write a book is just another idea nothing super fantastic about them.


Then we have the Brexiteers looking to grasp any piece of crumb to confirm their world view that somehow they are right.

And so the struggle continues.

 

[counter_violent]

What's the difference between ideas and intellectuals?

Brexiteers may have an idea but they are not intellectuals. I know, lets brake away from the EU and trade with the rest of the World. Yes let's do that! What a brilliant idea?

The intellectual having studied shed loads and understands international trade agreements will err on the side of caution.


As for that other Canadian, I doubt many people working large organisations know their CEO's or understand the company structure or hierarchy. So how many CEO's walk the floor or get to know their cleaners? These academics they make valuable points and they are not new. Simply to take an established body of thought and expand it to the current flavour of the month to Brexit or Trump doing well and write a book is just another idea nothing super fantastic about them.


Then we have the Brexiteers looking to grasp any piece of crumb to confirm their world view that somehow they are right.

And so the struggle continues.

As usual your arguments don't stand up.

Brexiteers have known for a long time that the EU was not for them. We have had 50 years in which to form and crystalise our opinions. The majority of voters in the referendum had already made their minds up regarding their intention and all of this despite the establishments best efforts to sway the vote in favour of remain.

Cameron made a number of strategic errors.

1) He made no real effort to secure better terms with his meeting of EU officials and came back with diddly squat.
This was duly noted by anti EU types and it served to reinforce the view that the EU did what the EU does time and again, which is to stick to the dogged rules except when it suits them to break them.

2) He assumed that having won the Scottish independence referendum using project fear style tactics, that this would work once again.
I pointed out at the time that this tactic would not work on the stubborn English who have no fear of standing up for their beliefs and that we also have shown no deference to the supposed intellectuals, experts and assorted know it all's. Those days are long gone. The general public is now much better informed and articulate since the advent of the tinterwebs, indeed they are not even party tribally loyal. There are just as many splits across Labour as there are within the Tory party. The LibDems have gone the way of UKIP and might as well disband

So, there is no point whatsoever in trying to tell voters that they have no idea what they are voting for, or that they are too thick to understand the issues and consequences. The fact is that the supposed intellectuals have been caught offside and they simply don't like it. Well that's just tough luck I say and this punch on the nose has been a long time coming!

 

[Signalcalc]

What's the difference between ideas and intellectuals?

What a daft question! Anyone can have ideas, only intellectuals can be intellectuals.

Brexiteers may have an idea but they are not intellectuals.

Why the daft statement? So anyone that voted leave is now not an intellectual ?

The intellectual having studied shed loads and understands international trade agreements will err on the side of caution.

What a cock-eyed response! Studied shed loads of what ? Sh!te? So anyone that claims to be an intellectual and has studied international trade agreements (as if that is an actual 'thing' to study) will always be cautious, what a meaningless pile of twaddle!

As for that other Canadian, I doubt many people working large organisations know their CEO's or understand the company structure or hierarchy. So how many CEO's walk the floor or get to know their cleaners? These academics they make valuable points and they are not new. Simply to take an established body of thought and expand it to the current flavour of the month to Brexit or Trump doing well and write a book is just another idea nothing super fantastic about them.

Huh! Canadian? Gibberish you speak.

Then we have the Brexiteers looking to grasp any piece of crumb to confirm their world view that somehow they are right.

And so the struggle continues.

The struggle is trying to comprehend which anything you is writing.

 

[timsk]

Did anyone see Newsnight last night? If so, like me, you witnessed something a bit special. Would you Adam 'n Eve it, Caroline Lucas and Jacob Rees-Mogg nodding and smiling in agreement with one another! No prizes for guessing what about. Even so, I've a nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach that by hook or by crook Mrs. May will somehow get her BRINO deal through - and then everyone will be disappointed. Grrrr!
Tim.

 

[cantagril]

....................

Cameron made a number of strategic errors.

Cameron made nothing BUT errors regarding the EU - their name is legion.

So, there is no point whatsoever in trying to tell voters that they have no idea what they are voting for, or that they are too thick to understand the issues and consequences. The fact is that the supposed intellectuals have been caught offside and they simply don't like it. Well that's just tough luck I say and this punch on the nose has been a long time coming!

Agree totally with your closing statement with the minor qualification that, of course, neither side properly understood what they were voting for nor had they sufficient time or information to make any semblance of a sound judgement. The intellectuals and the populists have both been caught offside though it may be some months before the consequences begin to rear their heads. Elections will be merely the start of the process. Bring on the Yellow Jackets .... which I'm given to understand means "wasp" on the Trump side of the pond....and "wasp" something else again, for that matter. It's all so confusing. Just as well I didn't vote either way.

 

[Signalcalc]

Did anyone see Newsnight last night? If so, like me, you witnessed something a bit special. Would you Adam 'n Eve it, Caroline Lucas and Jacob Rees-Mogg nodding and smiling in agreement with one another! No prizes for guessing what about. Even so, I've a nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach that by hook or by crook Mrs. May will somehow get her BRINO deal through - and then everyone will be disappointed. Grrrr!
Tim.

Strangely enough I have that same feeling, all the signs are she won’t but I just can’t shake the feeling. [emoji90]

 

[Signalcalc]

Agree totally with your closing statement with the minor qualification that, of course, neither side properly understood what they were voting for nor had they sufficient time or information to make any semblance of a sound judgement. The intellectuals and the populists have both been caught offside though it may be some months before the consequences begin to rear their heads. Elections will be merely the start of the process. Bring on the Yellow Jackets .... which I'm given to understand means "wasp" on the Trump side of the pond....and "wasp" something else again, for that matter. It's all so confusing. Just as well I didn't vote either way.

The intellectuals vs the populists

love it, it’s like a clockwork orange scenario

 

[timsk]

On the face of it, yesterday was a nightmare of a day for the government with three major defeats. However, many commentators are saying that it wasn't that bad for Mrs. May or those wanting to remain in the EU. Dominic Grieve's victory virtually ensures that a 'No Deal' Brexit isn't even on the table - let alone a possible outcome. Furthermore, it means that Mrs. May's BRINO deal can be watered down considerably and she'll get to walk away at the end of the process to claim legitimately that her deal was by far the closest on offer to the Brexit that leavers voted for in the 2016 referendum. Somewhat ironically, probably the best chance of anything approaching a 'proper' Brexit lies in the hands of the great unwashed and a 2nd referendum, aka a 'People's Vote'. It'll be interesting to see how JRM and fellow ERG members respond to yesterday's events, as they now appear to be very much on the back foot.

What is gradually becoming clear to me is that something far, far more serious than Brexit is at stake in all of this. We've all witnessed the protests in France and how quickly and on what scale they can escalate. My understanding is that the catalyst for that was proposed hikes in fuel costs. Imagine what might happen here if 17.4 million people feel that the democratic political process has completely failed them. Atilla entitled his thread 'Brexit and the Consequences'. It's anyone's guess what demons will be unleashed and what the consequences might be if Brexit doesn't happen. IMO, that's a very scary prospect indeed, far worse than either remaining in the EU or leaving without a deal and reverting to WTO terms. So, I say to remainers - be careful what you wish for - and to our our elected representatives I say - be careful what you vote for - as the unintended consequences could undermine our entire democratic political system and the ramifications of that just don't bear thinking about.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Agree with our post Timsk except for describing it as Dominic Grieve's victory. To me it is Parliaments Victory gaining control of the process rather than small niche groups of bodies. Brexit was hailed Farage's victory.

It is no way to run a government with celebrity status bodies. Parliament represents the whole country's interest. It is sovereign and that is where control should be.

It highlights what a blunt tool the referendum was and Cameron for calling it in fear of UKIP.

I fear UK should be weary of UKIP. That's where the next challenge is imo.

In a survey back in 2015, only 1% of the UK population said the EU was an issue for them. Now the government is tied in knots and not much else gets done.

 

[Signalcalc]

In a survey back in 2015, only 1% of the UK population said the EU was an issue for them.

Have you got a link for this?