Brexit and the Consequences

counter_violent said:
Well, who really knows. There have been mutterings that the commonwealth are interested, the TPP. Combine that with a general shift on WTO terms. The one we need to avoid is a formal deal with the US. We do enough natural trade with them without formalising the arrangement. I expect it would be too onerous. The yank just love to sue everyone at the drop of a hat. Bi lateral type deals are the way to go and there's nothing to be scared of. The UK is lacking leadership, political will and ambition. This has to change.
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so regardless of party ...........who is the next leader (or leader in waiting) who will do this ?

not exactly a target rich environment is it ?

I've generally flown the conservative badge to support capitalism,business and commerce over the years ........ at this moment i have no one who springs to mind as even half decent and ready for the fray .......:whistling
 
NVP said:
so regardless of party ...........who is the next leader (or leader in waiting) who will do this ?

not exactly a target rich environment is it ?

I've generally flown the conservative badge to support capitalism,business and commerce over the years ........ at this moment i have no one who springs to mind as even half decent and ready for the fray .......:whistling
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Fully agree N. Politicians need to get their act together pdq. Hiding behind the EU won't be an excuse available to them moving forward and that is what they are afraid of, having to take responsibility and own it. The leader is an issue I agree, but in terms of outward looking trade, that's much easier as it has to be a Govt coordinated team effort done in the interests of the whole UK, not just London.

It must be abundantly clear to all by now that May has taken the wrong approach re Brexit. Varoufakis summed it up the other night on newsnight. Dealing with the EU is not like dealing with politicians. We are dealing with tick box bureaucrats. So our starting position should always have been...we're off and if you want to talk trade, then make an appointment, cos we are really busy 😆

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1065377406007967744
 
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counter_violent said:
Fully agree N. Politicians need to get their act together pdq. Hiding behind the EU won't be an excuse available to them moving forward and that is what they are afraid of, having to take responsibility and own it. The leader is an issue I agree, but in terms of outward looking trade, that's much easier as it has to be a Govt coordinated team effort done in the interests of the whole UK, not just London.

It must be abundantly clear to all by now that May has taken the wrong approach re Brexit. Varoufakis summed it up the other night on newsnight. Dealing with the EU is not like dealing with politicians. We are dealing with tick box bureaucrats. So our starting position should always have been...we're off and if you want to talk trade, then make an appointment, cos we are really busy 😆

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1065377406007967744
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The MayBot could never understand that because she's an administrator who surrounded herself with administrators. She has no gut political instinct and that's why we are now in such a mess.
 
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People are commenting on the media saying that " The EU are not offering us this option or that option, This is the only deal"

Im sorry ? since when are negotiations and deals made based on what one side offers ? or doesn't offer ?.... bl00dy cheek of it, we cant have something because the EU are not offering it..?

May must go asap, When her deal gets voted out then hope she has the dignity to resign, Who should take her spot ? Raab? Davis possibly on a temporary basis until a leadership election, Get somebody in who believes in what they are doing.. This is getting so frustrating to witness..
 
mike. said:
People are commenting on the media saying that " The EU are not offering us this option or that option, This is the only deal"

Im sorry ? since when are negotiations and deals made based on what one side offers ? or doesn't offer ?.... bl00dy cheek of it, we cant have something because the EU are not offering it..?

May must go asap, When her deal gets voted out then hope she has the dignity to resign, Who should take her spot ? Raab? Davis possibly on a temporary basis until a leadership election, Get somebody in who believes in what they are doing.. This is getting so frustrating to witness..
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FWIW mike, I honestly believe that this decision is so big in terms of the countries future, that our MP's will recognise it for what it is and vote it down. There are plenty of remoaners who have already bailed out and given up (Clogg) or have been unable to influence the situation since the vote (Major Bliar), at some point, they will give up👍 There's no sign that leavers are giving up eh. Even Dianne Abbott is warning against a peoples vote because she recognises that the leave vote might well increase.
 
Quite a few are saying that we will never leave?

Tories cannot possibly deliver the referendum results. In fact no party can.

Delivering referendum result is absolute madness of first degree. Because it is suicide. Total suicide.

Literally billions depend on trade with EU. Pack of lies sold to British people.

Referendum was never about the EU it was about maintaining Tory power and not letting Labour in.

The first hint of anything resembling a no deal exit will see literally millions of pounds of donation pulled away from Tories and into whichever party supports remain.

No deal Brexit means a fundamental destruction of UK business. It's difficult to calculate impact.

Everyone talks about fear campaigning but that fear to those who are informed is just soooo scary it doesn't bear thinking about.



Some of you have been saying why doesn't TM just walk away. Let's say 28 buyers in a shop and one wants to publicly change the deal or the discount they are getting on their wholesale delivery of goods and services from the supplier.

Think about it is the Wholesaler going to give one party a public discount of 40% whilst maintaining the others at 30%. No way. EU will maintain status quo. UK will be shown the door and moreover, what is termed as punishment will be a switching of goods and services purchased from UK to other parties.

UK and likes of CV clearly indicate their intention to damage the EU. EU will fight back. Brexiteers talk about punishment but when Hammond says we'll reduce corporation tax to attract businesses into the UK that is throwing down the challenge for retaliation from teh EU. EU hasn't balked at standing up to the US do you guys think it will against the UK.

I've said it before UK is changing relations from cooperative to competitive or even combative state. There will be friction. It's simply ludicrous Brexiteers talking tough without carrying the rest of the country.

Sadly, unless one party wins outright and puts the other to rest as mentioned UK is going to suffer for years to come either way. We were the sick man of Europe before we joined.

Whilst some of you suggest UK never wanted to join EU that is not a true statement. UK was DESPERATE to join and took 11 years to do so against much resistance from the French. It also took two referendums to shut the Eurosceptics up.



I'm too getting sick and tired of useless numpties talking Bull. Very much in mind to let them have full control and see what kind of voices are raised from industry and finance and country.

Don't see any other way of shutting Eurosceptics up. Tories will not go for election incase they lose so I fear if the deal is voted down - and I feel it should because our current deal is better than what TM is offering us now to appease Eurosceptics.

Eurosceptics or Remainers will not be happy with this deal. So we will just simply soldier on like a crippled nation left side fighting right side. No national unity, much uncertainty and totally fecked up populace.

Only way out of this is to conclusively lay Brexiteers to rest. No hostages, no doubters and no quiblers. Best way forward, is to give them total control and watch them squirm and twist blaming everyone else but them selves on fecking up the nation. Very sad but a necessity imho. Then they can be squashed and put out of their misery. 👎
 
Atilla said:
Quite a few are saying that we will never leave?

We have to, Its a legal obligation now

Tories cannot possibly deliver the referendum results. In fact no party can.

The referendum result was to leave the EU, not leave providing we get a deal. Leaving on WTO is honouring the ref result.

Delivering referendum result is absolute madness of first degree. Because it is suicide. Total suicide.

This is just your personal pov

Literally billions depend on trade with EU. Pack of lies sold to British people.

The UK will continue to trade with the EU and billions will continue to flow back and forth, Maybe a FTA can be agreed after we have left, As we're already aligned to EU ruling I bet it wont take them long.

Referendum was never about the EU it was about maintaining Tory power and not letting Labour in.

The first hint of anything resembling a no deal exit will see literally millions of pounds of donation pulled away from Tories and into whichever party supports remain.

There's no evidence to support this, Many people just want the govt to "get on with the job in hand"

No deal Brexit means a fundamental destruction of UK business. It's difficult to calculate impact.







Only way out of this is to conclusively lay Brexiteers to rest. No hostages, no doubters and no quiblers. Best way forward, is to give them total control and watch them squirm and twist blaming everyone else but them selves on fecking up the nation. Very sad but a necessity imho. Then they can be squashed and put out of their misery. 👎
😆😆😆😆😆
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Here's my 2p worth.
 
mike. said:
Here's my 2p worth.
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2p worth to you but that withdrawal transitionary deal will cost half as much more and I'm sure get extended anywhere from another 2-5 years.

We will pay more, not participate in any of the rule making and come away with a worse deal.

Great deal of money to pay to stop Morrocans coming into the country and strike deals with other nations assuming we can.


Hope its worth it but the numbers don't add up. No jobs, no money and no choice is what we are lookign at.


I foresee Catalonia style revolution, London and the counties down South revolting at having to subsidise the North who don't contribute much to the economy yet have pulled UK out of a most lucrative continent.

Scotland and Wales likely to revolt too. Much hardship up ahead. Beware. 👍
 
Think you may of misunderstood my point, The withdrawal agreement May and Ollie Robins have concocted is to try and appeal to both sides, Sort of leave and yet sort of remain in. It has done the exact opposite and i do hope it gets voted down both times in parliament. She simply has not got the numbers to get it through, therefore leaving on march 29th without a deal is preference and becoming more likely to many people..

Portillo nailed it the other night on this week, quote: " we're not crashing out of the EU, nor are we going over a cliff edge, we are simply reverting back to how we were before we joined "

You cannot undo the progress that's been made over the years or un-invent things.

What are these people so scared of ? just how gullible are those that believe that medicines and mars bars will be in short supply..😆

The best deals are made when the person walking away is shouted back.
 
mike. said:
Think you may of misunderstood my point, The withdrawal agreement May and Ollie Robins have concocted is to try and appeal to both sides, Sort of leave and yet sort of remain in. It has done the exact opposite and i do hope it gets voted down both times in parliament. She simply has not got the numbers to get it through, therefore leaving on march 29th without a deal is preference and becoming more likely to many people..

Portillo nailed it the other night on this week, quote: " we're not crashing out of the EU, nor are we going over a cliff edge, we are simply reverting back to how we were before we joined "

You cannot undo the progress that's been made over the years or un-invent things.

What are these people so scared of ? just how gullible are those that believe that medicines and mars bars will be in short supply..😆

The best deals are made when the person walking away is shouted back.
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Not when there are 27 others in the shop looking on.

I hope you are right but my past experience and relationship with hope is not a good one.

🙂
 
Atilla said:
2p worth to you but that withdrawal transitionary deal will cost half as much more and I'm sure get extended anywhere from another 2-5 years.

We will pay more, not participate in any of the rule making and come away with a worse deal.

Great deal of money to pay to stop Morrocans coming into the country and strike deals with other nations assuming we can.


Hope its worth it but the numbers don't add up. No jobs, no money and no choice is what we are lookign at.


I foresee Catalonia style revolution, London and the counties down South revolting at having to subsidise the North who don't contribute much to the economy yet have pulled UK out of a most lucrative continent.

Scotland and Wales likely to revolt too. Much hardship up ahead. Beware. 👍
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You are the first, I think, I've seen bring a North/South divide into the remain camp, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
cantagril said:
Interesting. So, the flattening off of our exports to the US since 2013 (including the trough a couple of years back) and the continuing healthy rise of imports from them are merely temporary phenomena?
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How long is a temporary phenomena supposed to last, does it depend on geopolitical events and risk control?

I have to admit that I had completely misunderstood what people had been saying about making our own trade arrangements and looking to the US to replace any losses with the EU due to Brexit. I'm sure that if they'd known then what you've explained that there would have been far fewer objections to the duff trade arrangements that seem to be on the cards.
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I would agree, yes, why would we shy away from maintaining a strong relationship with the US, which is what the MSM appear to be presenting. Does the data support this view, is the MSM presenting the correct data? What is the long term fiscal expectation, who provides this analysis and why?

What is your analysis of the existing trade relationship with the US, what has changed since 2013 and why?
 
counter_violent said:
Sod it, i'm off to France on Sunday. 😆

No really, I am. Chalampe, somewhere near the Swiss German borders. I'll be in discussions with the locals, see what they think about the EU👍
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While you're there,
Check out Calais for potential cheep alcohol suppliers when we revert back to "le booze cruse" in April 👍 😆
 
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