Brexit and the Consequences

[barjon]

Which doesn't explain why other EU member countries are following our lead.
Direction of travel is clear.

That’s wishful thinking. Just because the tiny fringe of discontents has grown to a very small fringe doesn’t mean that any other member state is seriously following our lead.

 

[cantagril]

Which doesn't explain why other EU member countries are following our lead.
Direction of travel is clear.

Actually, whilst I agree completely that Brexit has been a catalyst that has encouraged other states to rethink the terms of their EU membership, what they are NOT doing is flouncing out of the party in a fit of pique. As Attila mentioned somewhat obliquely, every one has their own set of priorities and ways of expressing them. Using the French approach of conflict as a precursor to negotiation as an exemplar, other countries are doing the same. This does not necessarily mean that there will be either no negotiation or no agreement. The idea that the Treaty cannot be amended or revised if found to be unsatisfactory is completely false. When enough members voice enough discontent then things will change.

Of course the rest of Europe is looking at how we get on and of course the EU aren't going to fall over themselves to ease the conditions or the consequences of our departure - it's not in their interests.

Whether the whole sorry mess comes right quickly or slowly, it's our problem and of our own making. The rest of Europe is looking very closely as to how big a problem we've made and how well we deal with it. Our performance will show them the way for their own negotiations.

 

[Pat494]

Actually, whilst I agree completely that Brexit has been a catalyst that has encouraged other states to rethink the terms of their EU membership, what they are NOT doing is flouncing out of the party in a fit of pique. As Attila mentioned somewhat obliquely, every one has their own set of priorities and ways of expressing them. Using the French approach of conflict as a precursor to negotiation as an exemplar, other countries are doing the same. This does not necessarily mean that there will be either no negotiation or no agreement. The idea that the Treaty cannot be amended or revised if found to be unsatisfactory is completely false. When enough members voice enough discontent then things will change.

Of course the rest of Europe is looking at how we get on and of course the EU aren't going to fall over themselves to ease the conditions or the consequences of our departure - it's not in their interests.

Whether the whole sorry mess comes right quickly or slowly, it's our problem and of our own making. The rest of Europe is looking very closely as to how big a problem we've made and how well we deal with it. Our performance will show them the way for their own negotiations.

Agreed.
There are of course winners and losers. Are the PIGS happy with the current arrangement ? I doubt it. Their common denominator is that they are laid back sunny countries. Makes one wonder. If they don't get their acts togethor they will find the Northerners will own most of the South as well.

 

[counter_violent]

That’s wishful thinking. Just because the tiny fringe of discontents has grown to a very small fringe doesn’t mean that any other member state is seriously following our lead.

Yeah, you might need to rethink this. The evidence is clear, some of these populists are already in power.
Trend is clear, we already have Trump and Brexit. The Europeans are just a little further behind (slow)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/n.../revealed-one-in-four-europeans-vote-populist

 

[counter_violent]

I see some merit in the argument that the Scots could stay in the EU and England leave. Duty could be charged on any goods going south/north through the chunnel.
Westminster is so ineffective these days that they may have lost the will to govern properly.

Who would subsidise the Scots then? What about the wall and border crossings? Why would the EU want another drain on their already diminished budget?

Enough trouble with the Irish border issue without getting into Scotland. Not that they would vote for separation anyhow.

 

[barjon]

Yeah, you might need to rethink this. The evidence is clear, some of these populists are already in power.
Trend is clear, we already have Trump and Brexit. The Europeans are just a little further behind (slow)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/n.../revealed-one-in-four-europeans-vote-populist

just like security at airports the thing has now got a life of its own whether or not it is effective.

 

[Atilla]

Hmmm. I admit that there was an element of stirring in my original comments but I think that if you consider that I did specifically use the word "relative" with regard to our present day lack of hugeness (along with the incontrovertible downward track of the UK's economic and military power which started with WW1) you will acknowledge that there has been a decline in the UK's ranking. We are on the way to becoming Belgium though we aren't there just yet. This is not one political party's fault nor has there been one defining moment. The culture (be it good or bad) that got us to the top of the tree for 150 years is not the culture of present day Britain. All things must pass....and we already have, even though it might be hard to admit it.

And as for my spending too much time across the ditch: yes, I've only been back here a couple of years (and sincerely hope that I'll be over there again asap) but it's not just France that has been an influence on my worldview and palate. Rather like Split, I've spent two thirds of what is getting to be a fairly lengthy life as an ex-pat in various parts of the world whilst still calling France my home. I've done some longish stints in North Africa and Japan. I'm also of mongrel european heritage and an army brat to boot and so have lived in 4 other western countries for several years. I do fully realise that this makes me perhaps less qualified to understand to properly comprehend the thinking of longer term Blighty denizens but stupidity, ignorance and gullibility would seem to explain a lot of it.

An entertaining experience for me has been the complete bafflement of my various German, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese and Arab acquaintances on the subject of Brexit. Universally they have expressed their opinion on the UK's position in very much the same terms as that nice sign language lady did ...but with a bit more amusement. In reply to their question "Why?!!!!" I have been able to reply only that for about half the population Brexit seemed like a good idea at the time.....

OMG you really are putting the boot in comparing us to Belgium. No way Joe

They may have a high per-capita income but that's not hard when one is virtually the belly button of EU and only have 10m population size.

I hold the view Brexit was an act of opportunism from fringe quarter and there is some kind of craze going round Europe but shouldn't last imo. I do concur refugee crises was our own making and Germany with opening doors and the French maintain camps at Calais didn't help. They both got the message now and about time too. Dropping bombs on Gadafi or Syria added fuel to the fire as well but won't go there. Somebody was talking about the unintended consequences of our actions but I think they drove away in a Mini Metro or something.

When are you publishing your memoirs? Can I have a signed copy please?

 

[cantagril]

OMG you really are putting the boot in comparing us to Belgium. No way Joe

I beg to differ on your differing: like us they have a health service that's a basket case, their military is of comedic value only and they recently went 18 months or so without a government. They make excellent chips, their weather is just as bad as ours and like Wales, they have two official languages. We have a great deal in common.

When are you publishing your memoirs? Can I have a signed copy please?

There's a flaw in your flattering request there: you're assuming that if I'd done anything worth recording that I could remember it and then that my current level of cognitive disorders and assorted tremors would allow me to hold a pen and scrawl one of my aliases.....I suppose I might manage a thumb-print.

 

[Signalcalc]

There's a flaw in your flattering request there: you're assuming that if I'd done anything worth recording that I could remember it and then that my current level of cognitive disorders and assorted tremors would allow me to hold a pen and scrawl one of my aliases.....I suppose I might manage a thumb-print.

Have you come back to UK for the NHS, I wonder [emoji106][emoji2533]

 

[cantagril]

Have you come back to UK for the NHS, I wonder [emoji106][emoji2533]

Hah!

To answer your question directly: No

I found myself in a situation a couple of years or so that meant planning for my family in a worst case scenario. Happily for me, that worst case turned out not to be not that bad after all....but only after I'd sold up over there.

In fact, one of my reasons for going back to France is much fitter health system and the quality of care. Unfortunately, I have been in a position to sample the health systems of a few countries and for me, the UK doesn't compare very well.


Edit: Except for Dentistry - the Frogs don't do teeth....well, they do but really really badly

 

[counter_violent]

More imported culture

Not sure if we have a Morrocan ghetto yet in the UK, but perhaps when they come over we can delight in some more imported cultural enrichment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46287259

 

[Pat494]

Did I hear it right that the French are going to insist on fishing rights in UK waters after Brexit ?

 

[cantagril]

Not sure if we have a Morrocan ghetto yet in the UK, but perhaps when they come over we can delight in some more imported cultural enrichment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46287259

Rest assured CV, we do indeed. Golborne Road in London W10 - Notting Hillish.

The Etoile de l'Atlas restaurant there does an excellent tajine of rent collector with olives.

 

[Atilla]

Not sure if we have a Morrocan ghetto yet in the UK, but perhaps when they come over we can delight in some more imported cultural enrichment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46287259

Stop polluting the Brexit thread with your refugee spam dude.

:spam::spam::spam:


You desperate for attention?

I'm going to get you one of these for xmas

 

[counter_violent]

Stop polluting the Brexit thread with your refugee spam dude.

:spam::spam::spam:


You desperate for attention?

I'm going to get you one of these for xmas

Totally relevant to the Brexit issue and the rise of populist parties across Europe. I don't see the problem talking about it.

 

[Atilla]

Totally relevant to the Brexit issue and the rise of populist parties across Europe. I don't see the problem talking about it.

What's Morrocan ghettos got to do with UK leaving the EU?

 

[counter_violent]

Are the voting public aware of this

Handing over our defense forces. Doesn't sound like taking back control to me.

 

[Splitlink]

That’s wishful thinking. Just because the tiny fringe of discontents has grown to a very small fringe doesn’t mean that any other member state is seriously following our lead.

I don't understand cv on this point. I don't see any other member state wanting to leave at the moment. That is not to say that it won't happen, but neither he nor anyone else can foresee when.

 

[Splitlink]

Yeah, you might need to rethink this. The evidence is clear, some of these populists are already in power.
Trend is clear, we already have Trump and Brexit. The Europeans are just a little further behind (slow)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/n.../revealed-one-in-four-europeans-vote-populist

Very slow! We just don't get it.! Show us where, in that Guardian article, it says they want to leave EU. I thought Brexiters never read The Guardian, anyway.

 

[Atilla]

Very slow! We just don't get it.! Show us where, in that Guardian article, it says they want to leave EU. I thought Brexiters never read The Guardian, anyway.

I think 1 in 4 may be about right.

Considering there are only 36% of Brexiteers in the UK who voted to leave, I'd hazard a guess half of those are numpties who were duped by slimy politicians and another quarter perhaps who don't quite know where Moroco is.

That would leave 9% who genuinely want Brexit and think it'll be great.