Brexit and the Consequences

Regardless of party politics, the whole establishment brought this upon the country.

First we had Heath who lied to the public regarding the EU and what it's ultimate aims were. Then we had successive govt's of either persuasion who flip flopped around the idea of in/out, reluctant remainers would accurately describe the average position over the last 40 odd years. Then we get mass migration because it suits big business to keep wages down. It really is no wonder that we are where we are today.

One thing is for certain. The British voting public will remember for a long time just how destructive it can be being part of a much larger organisation and having no voice and no real power.

We only need look at how the USA does not work as a whole, just the same as the EU. The whole bigger is better premise is flawed.

In addition to the above you can't ignore the history of the Euro. The latest thoughts of its architect are here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/16/euro-house-of-cards-to-collapse-warns-ecb-prophet/
 
In addition to the above you can't ignore the history of the Euro. The latest thoughts of its architect are here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/16/euro-house-of-cards-to-collapse-warns-ecb-prophet/

Well there we have it. Even the EU elites don't believe in the project, but are so far down the road that they can't turn back. It's all heading towards catastrophic failure and the fallout will be far reaching.

The UK needs to get off it's **** asap and get as many trade agreements in place with the rest of the world. Time is a luxury we don't have. The EU could fall apart at any moment, lets just hope it drags on for a while !
 
Yes, most organisations require something far exceeding a simple majority for matters affecting their constitutions because of the fundamental and far reaching nature of any amendment.

In this case the government presumably thought that remain would be a slam dunk result so just tossed the question out there without bothering about the niceties.

What's done is done,though, so not a lot of point picking at it. Thinking has got to be about how to counter and/or overcome the problems, not what damage they might do.


I beg to differ. There is some common acceptance that Brexit means Brexit and we are leaving. The people have voted. The foundations of that vote is seriously flawed and the referendum was meant to be advisory.

Having underlined that point, Parliament and HoLs is where the rule of law and policy must be made by qualified debate and not by the lay man on the media circus.

We need to keep hammering this point home. The Brexit camp seems to think they have a solid mandate from the British people. This is NOT the case!!! Theresa May the unelected Premier along with her narrow minded cabinet needs a wake up call. Markets giving it to her sure enough.


WTO which is being branded about is a fallacy. The argument was it is always better to negotiate with one body than 27. It is pointed out as being advantages to trade with rest of the world 160+ countries. Talk about moving away from regulation and complexity of the EU to jump into the the WTO. Look at Canada and how long that's taken. Some may blame the EU but anyone who does trade agreements with India or China will tell you otherwise. Won't touch on risk of doing deals with some countries like China, Russia or Brazil either.

WTO also removes are key advantage for foreign firms to locate in the UK. This will impact not just the car industry or Finance once some institutions start leaving but subsequently all FUTURE investment decisions. Fall in the pound with WTO removing advantage of EU membership; forget shooting one self in the foot, more like shooting one self in the head. :mad:

UK depends on foreign investment for jobs and capital flows. Brexit is SEVERLY DETRIMENTAL to UK interests on both those fronts. I loathe politicians and stupid numpties who don't have a clue. Look at Dyson, sells 80% to rest of world outside of EU and just because he had one disagreement with regulation with the EU is quite prepared to F it all adn leave without considering impact on millions of others. Takes being bloody minded to new levels.

However, we are supposed to call Mr Dyson, Sir Dyson apparently. As for Nigel Lawson with his sovereignty crap living in France and expats being denied the vote is just ludicrous. Having said that I think these two were more responding to exaggerated claims of Osborn and Cameron that nobody will want to trade with us then really championing well thought out Brexit gains.


Some have touted Norway and Swiss models as half way solution. Something like this is the best compromised outcome imo.

Hard Brexit condemns the UK to literally 100s of bns of loss revenue and income with 10-20 years in the wilderness before hardship of millions is able to turn UK around from joining the league of 2nd World countries.


Others who put Australia and NZ as new countries hopping mad to make trade pacts with us aren't very good with numbers. Giving up world largest GDP block with 300+ m people to trading with a few 20m small countries. India is very difficult to trde with and China carries big risks.

Brexiters, haven't thought out anything much and I'm increasingly seeing them like football hooligans representing UK interests abroad.


Shocking!!!

Can anyone see Brexiters winning jobs and investement for Northern England???

Can anyone see these Brexiters raising the wages of the common low skilled worker???


Numpties the lot of them!!! :mad::mad::mad:
 
Last edited:
Last place to go to finding out about EU is Daily Mail or the Telegraph imho.

Why not go direct to EU website and find out for your selves.
Oh I dunno, let me think. Could it possibly be that they're ever so slightly an insy, winsy bit biased with their propaganda? Sorry, I mean their public info', and that reading the objective views of a third party might offer a better perspective?

Just think Atilla, if I'd done as you advise prior to the referendum, I might have voted remain instead of leave. Doh, silly me!
:LOL:
 
Last place to go to finding out about EU is Daily Mail or the Telegraph imho.

Why not go direct to EU website and find out for your selves.
https://europa.eu/european-union/index_en


Interesting article on BBG. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-bulletin-does-theresa-may-have-a-secret-plan

Rumours going around of in-fighting which were played down over teh weekend but article comments on Phillip Hammond might resign as speculation, so says the Treasury... No smoke without fire! :-0

The quote in blue is pretty sound advice in general. But I would apply the same criteria to the EU, BBC and FT all of whom act as if unbiased - but that's not what a lot of people think. As for the stuff in the Telegraph link above, they were only quoting what the economist who invented it now thinks: I would have thought he would be worth listening to.

In the unlikely event that you come across an unbiased source on Brexit which doesn't have an agenda, I'd be pleased to hear about it. :LOL:
 
Rumours going around of in-fighting which were played down over teh weekend but article comments on Phillip Hammond might resign as speculation, so says the Treasury... No smoke without fire! :-0


No quotes from my bookie yet on Philip Hammond leaving Cabinet. Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox still up there though. Can't understand why Boris Johnson isn't on their short-list.
 
Oh I dunno, let me think. Could it possibly be that they're ever so slightly an insy, winsy bit biased with their propaganda? Sorry, I mean their public info', and that reading the objective views of a third party might offer a better perspective?

Just think Atilla, if I'd done as you advise prior to the referendum, I might have voted remain instead of leave. Doh, silly me!
:LOL:


Well I know you had NHS resources and Fisherman on the top of your reasons.
- NHS analysis clearly wrong and no sweeties for you as you kiss your 350m fudge goodbye
- Fisherman may get to catch more fish but let's hope they'll have someone with money to sell it too.


Voting for Brexit means more jobs and higher wages! :)

Voting for Brexit is like Turkey's voting for Christmas. Turkey's queuing up for a jolly good stuffing.



Keep reading the Telegraph and you'll get there soon enough. ;)
 
The quote in blue is pretty sound advice in general. But I would apply the same criteria to the EU, BBC and FT all of whom act as if unbiased - but that's not what a lot of people think. As for the stuff in the Telegraph link above, they were only quoting what the economist who invented it now thinks: I would have thought he would be worth listening to.

In the unlikely event that you come across an unbiased source on Brexit which doesn't have an agenda, I'd be pleased to hear about it. :LOL:

Yep agree with your analogy. However, when ever I go to check the slant Telegraph or Daily Mail gives on their representation of Brexit news, the original has been considerably different.

I have posted many of them look ups here. What I'm saying is those papers are on an agenda and people read what they want to hear not the uncomfortable truth.

Check out the EU site. You might find something that'll make you go ooooohhh I didn't know that but I do like it :)
 
Last edited:
No quotes from my bookie yet on Philip Hammond leaving Cabinet. Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox still up there though. Can't understand why Boris Johnson isn't on their short-list.

Coz his the blue eyed bombshell who's funny.

I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later, in order to save UK face, EU offers what's sold to the people as a better off and Boris becomes PM. Job done. Perhaps at the next elections when the new deal is put to the British people to vote on.

:idea:
 
Coz his the blue eyed bombshell who's funny.

I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later, in order to save UK face, EU offers what's sold to the people as a better off and Boris becomes PM. Job done. Perhaps at the next elections when the new deal is put to the British people to vote on.

:idea:

I saw Boris on tv, yesterday, with Perry. Frankly, he looks a right berk. :)

He's going to be more of a menace as Foreign Minister than he, ever, was as Lord Mayor of London.

In charge as PM!!!?? I think the Brits have more problems than I thought! They don't need,or deserve him. If Theresa goes, there had better be fresh elections.
 
Last edited:
Boris for PM?

I wouldn't write Boris off. They all thought Ronnie Reagan was a joke until he teamed up with Maggie (better than Bush & Blair any day of the week). And of course, Churchill made a bit of a mess of many things (apart from his writings) before he became one of the greatest PM.
 
I saw Boris on tv, yesterday, with Perry. Frankly, he looks a right berk. :)

He's going to be more of a menace as Foreign Minister than he, ever, was as Lord Mayor of London.

In charge as PM!!!?? I think the Brits have more problems than I thought! They don't need,or deserve him. If Theresa goes, there had better be fresh elections.

His from the same Etonite stables as David Cameron. Both very competitive and were tatooed with PM roles on their arses at birth.

I think Boris has done excellent work maintaining congestion charge and topping up with cycle lanes in London. However, he messed up giving the London bike contract to foreign comp. Here we are trying to drum up work for Englanders and he sells out to some marginally cheap-er foreign manufacturer. This is the guy who claims they'll bring jobs to England and raise wages. Who believes him?

These people aren't gifted or talented. They are simply born and bred in the establishment and are simply self interested individuals who get all the help and leg ups the rest don't. They claim to be nationalist and have the interest of the country at heart, but do they really.

Interests of the nation are just the board they play on to simply raise their statuses and family wealth.


http://europe.newsweek.com/boris-johnson-brexit-backer-remain-article-510432?rm=eu

He affably well bumbles on and peeps love him for it. More recently he had trouble identifying the commonwealth flag and just laughed it off quite well.
 
Why the EU Will Find Brexit Especially Difficult
http://bloom.bg/2egrIJQ
Bloomberg

Hi Forker,

He says UK will eventually attract more investment and come out as the winner. He doesn't qualify how this will be achieved. Right now foreigners selling UK assets and see no reason to invest in UK with WTO trading rules and potentially further sterling falls being pencilled in.

Quick note Nissan has stopped investing in a new plant. Theresa May has said we'll compensate you don't worry. Nissan is not continuing with investment. Just said they were reassured. Previously, many subsidies and tax concessions were given to attract these industries to Northern regions. Just wondering where these subsidies to foreign investors going to come from. I'm guessing from the 9bn savings we don't have to give the EU. Boy that 9bn is going to have to do a lot of plugging.

He also says EU will lose out more cause other countries will follow the UK? This remains to be seen. UK hasn't left yet and the troubles are just starting. I don't see it as punishment just simply best interests of business.

The Italians like the Greeks will vote in favour of EU because the people know wihtout the stabilising influence of teh EU and good governance their politicians are shiite and self interested businessmen. I'd say the same about Spain. Scotland is queuing up to join the bigger EU dream too.

Time will tell.
 
The false promise of a free-trade paradise for Brexit Britain
May’s office must be held to account on its failure to answer awkward questions, writes Nick Clegghttps://www.ft.com/content/ae0dc02c-75db-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a

Incase you guys don't see it... Here is the article...


David Davis, flanked by his fellow Brexiters, made his first statement in Parliament this week on Britain’s impending EU exit since starting his new job. It was a masterclass in speaking while saying nothing. Questions of substance were dodged by the Brexit secretary under the sensible-sounding pretext that the government wants to “take the time to get it right”.

The reality is that time is not on our side. Prime Minister Theresa May has made a commitment to implement Article 50 at the beginning of 2017; from that point on, we only have two years to put everything in place to ensure a smooth transition to the sunny uplands Mr Davis told us awaits.

Brexit will make a deep mark on British life. Most importantly, it will upend our trading relationships with Europe and the rest of the world. Only 15 per cent of UK total trade is with countries that are neither members of the EU, nor covered by an EU trade agreement that is in force or under negotiation.

Brexit ministers have argued that, far from creating risk, leaving the EU will unlock growth by freeing us to sign trade agreements with whomsoever we please. Unlike Michael Gove, the pro-Brexit former justice secretary, I think we need to listen more to experts, not less. In an attempt to ensure someone is holding the government to account, I have been working with experts to find answers to the difficult questions the government is refusing to address.

Since the vote in June, we have been analysing the implications of Brexit for trade, and on Thursday I presented the findings on a platform alongside Peter Sutherland, the former founding director-general of the World Trade Organisation. The conclusions are stark. The idea that we will be signing any new trade deal in the next two years is a pipe dream because of what government officials call “sequencing”. We will have to do things in a particular order and it will take time.

15% of total UK trade with countries that are neither members of the EU, nor covered by an EU trade agreement that is either in force or under negotiation

First, Article 50 has to be triggered, which sets the clock ticking on the exit negotiations. These talks are primarily about how we disentangle ourselves from the EU. Trade discussions will start during this two-year period but they are very unlikely to conclude rapidly because of the number of issues to be resolved. While this is going on Liam Fox, international trade secretary, would like to be lining up new deals with China, India and the US. He can try but, as Australia has made clear, we will not be able to progress beyond informal talks because the UK is not legally able to sign its own agreements until it leaves the EU customs union.

In practice, no one will want to sign deals with us then either. Potential partners will want to see what trading terms we manage to negotiate with the EU before they put forward their own offer. This means waiting until a full UK-EU agreement is negotiated, which is likely to take several more years. The closest model, the EU-Canada trade agreement, was launched in 2007; it has still not been ratified.

The most likely scenario is that the UK leaves the EU without any preferential trade deal in place. We will therefore lose access to more than 50 existing free-trade agreements

A trade agreement with the EU will, in some respects, make doing business with the continent much harder. Exporters in the UK have been promised a red tape-free “Eutopia” but they have been sold a pup. Substituting Britain’s current arrangement for a free-trade agreement will create a deluge of paperwork for exporters, who will have to put their products through exhaustive customs checks and comply with complex “rules of origin” to prove where their goods and component parts were manufactured.

Even with a UK-EU agreement in place, there is one further hoop to jump through. The UK will have to establish its own “schedule of commitments” — the tariffs it proposes to levy on imported goods and services — at the WTO before any country will do a deal with us. This requires negotiation with 163 other countries, any one of which could derail the process in the hope of extracting concessions.

Our analysis suggests the most likely scenario is that the UK leaves the EU without any preferential trade deal in place — and without a WTO schedule of commitments. We will therefore lose access to more than 50 existing free-trade agreements. For these reasons we recommend trying to negotiate an interim arrangement, possibly based on the Norwegian model, with continued membership of the single market but the flexibility to pursue our own trading deals.

May tells Tusk UK wants smooth EU divorce
The prime minister said the UK needs time to prepare for its exit from the EU but was anxious to make it a “smooth process”.

So where is the government on all of this? Not even at first base. Mr Davis breezily says it will make a decision whether to leave the customs union before Article 50 is triggered. The Conservatives are stuck between a rock and a hard place: stay in the customs union and Mr Fox’s department might as well close its doors. Leave, and British exporters to the EU will be hit by a tangle of red tape.

Ministers must make their plans for Britain’s trading relationships clear as soon as possible. We are in the calm before the storm. Whatever form Brexit takes, it is going to be a rough ride.

The writer is the UK’s former deputy prime minister
 
No quotes from my bookie yet on Philip Hammond leaving Cabinet. Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox still up there though. Can't understand why Boris Johnson isn't on their short-list.

No 10 plays down cabinet differences over Brexit

Brexiters turn their sights on Philip Hammond
Eurosceptic ministers have launched a concerted effort to “isolate” Philip Hammond for raising awkward questions about the economic cost of a clean break with the EU, according to friends of the chancellor.




funny-pic1.png
 
Last place to go to finding out about EU is Daily Mail or the Telegraph imho.

Euro 'house of cards' to collapse, warns ECB prophet
The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.

"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

Prof Issing said the euro has been betrayed by politics, lamenting that the experiment went wrong from the beginning and has since degenerated into a fiscal free-for-all that once again masks the festering pathologies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Professor Issing is an expert and well worth listening to, unlike Atilla, who is no expert, although pretends to be :LOL:

I'm so pleased that prof Issing has come around to the Brit's point of view, that the EU is fundamentally flawed and will collapse. As with everything, timing is a bihatch !!!!

Brexit means Brexit (y)
 
Top