Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Posturing. They both have elections coming up. Hollande needn't bother cos he will be out anyway, but Merkel has all to play for. Her problem of course is to appear tough and uncompromising to the German electorate and the Brussels machine, but business are the paymasters, so whatever they decide is needed will be the order.

Our strength is in taking an uncompromising stance on this free movement issue. The EU needs to be under no illusion, that because we are more efficient and have more flexibility re labour laws, that the rest of the EU needs to get it's own house in order, before trying to lay the law down and lecture us. We should not be the scapegoat of the EU, whereby they get to export their unemployment problem to the UK.

Difference of opinion here CV. Increase in population and migrant labour drives growth and GDP. In fact so much so that even Sweden has started doing so and there were press articles written so.

Hear what you saying about posturing pre-negotiations and sounding out the opposition. It's all very basic and non-engaging at the moment.

There mixed soundbites coming from Mr Schauble the German Finance Minister. He is one to watch. He is bad cop. Merkel good cop.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-financial-transaction-tax-on-global-agenda

 

[hhiusa]

The immigration problem in Sweden has made the Swedish Democrats one of the most popular parties there. For those of you that do not know, they are the right-wing anti-immigrant party. In some polls they are slightly ahead of the Social Democratic Party (the leader for quite some time prior to the refugee crisis) and in some polls they are slightly behind.

 

[Atilla]

People vote with their hearts and not with their heads.

When it comes to capitalism and number crunching the boot is on the other foot. People put away their hearts and conscience and simply count the pennies.

Either way, there is a debt crises with an aging birth rate and rising tax burden. Solution is one of two headed evil dragon (inflation & migration as potential solutions) that's looking to consume hearts and minds. Alternatively, raise taxes to pay off debt.

I make no apologies for selective articles to make point.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151116/refugee-crisis-could-boost-swedish-economy

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/20/imf-refugee-influx-provide-eu-economic-boost

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/28/refu...rnments-increase-spending-moscovici-says.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...impact-on-european-countries-eu-a6722396.html

 

[tar]

Cable failed above 1.30 going below again ...

 

[Splitlink]

People vote with their hearts and not with their heads.

When it comes to capitalism and number crunching the boot is on the other foot. People put away their hearts and conscience and simply count the pennies.

Either way, there is a debt crises with an aging birth rate and rising tax burden. Solution is one of two headed evil dragon (inflation & migration as potential solutions) that's looking to consume hearts and minds. Alternatively, raise taxes to pay off debt.

I make no apologies for selective articles to make point.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151116/refugee-crisis-could-boost-swedish-economy

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/20/imf-refugee-influx-provide-eu-economic-boost

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/28/refu...rnments-increase-spending-moscovici-says.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...impact-on-european-countries-eu-a6722396.html

Your "no apologies for grim reading" comment has put me off reading those articles!

I'll take your word for them.

 

[Atilla]

Brexit’s Biggest Fans Face New 115 Billion-Pound Pension Hole

Nice move that saving £350m a week.

Be interesting to see and hear how Brexiters work this one out. It's not about the money, I know but wait till they start freezing to death in the middle of winter, saving pennies on fuel prices which will have risen due to fall in pound along with dwindling NHS resources and then come back and say it's not about the money.

Not good at all.

 

[timsk]

. . . Not good at all.

Yeah, but looking on the bright side, if it means we can buy funny shaped bananas and cucumbers that don't comply with EU regulation length and girth - it'll be worth it.

 

[Atilla]

Yeah, but looking on the bright side, if it means we can buy funny shaped bananas and cucumbers that don't comply with EU regulation length and girth - it'll be worth it.

Can't imagine you with a funny shaped banana Tim, but what ever floats your boat

 

[Splitlink]

Yeah, but looking on the bright side, if it means we can buy funny shaped bananas and cucumbers that don't comply with EU regulation length and girth - it'll be worth it.

The strange thing about that, Tim, is that I was in the fruit shop, in Barcelona, the other day and the Fyffes bananas were straighter, bigger and cheaper than all the others in the shop. Are you sure that this is not an old wives' tale?.

 

[timsk]

The strange thing about that, Tim, is that I was in the fruit shop, in Barcelona, the other day and the Fyffes bananas were straighter, bigger and cheaper than all the others in the shop. Are you sure that this is not an old wives' tale?.

Yeah, it probably is Split'. That said, the underlying point about not having to do what some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels dictates - still stands.

The Bloomberg article makes for alarming reading - if one chooses to believe it. My view is that it falls firmly into the third category of Disraeli's assessment about lies: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." I no more accept it's conclusions than I would if someone were to make out that we'll all be better off by the same amount as a result of Brexit. Finances fluctuate, but principles don't change quite so readily and, IMO, are worth hanging on to. On that basis, I believe it's better to be free at the risk of being poorer, potentially at least, than it is to be forever imprisoned in the gilded EU cage.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Yeah, it probably is Split'. That said, the underlying point about not having to do what some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels dictates - still stands.

The Bloomberg article makes for alarming reading - if one chooses to believe it. My view is that it falls firmly into the third category of Disraeli's assessment about lies: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." I no more accept it's conclusions than I would if someone were to make out that we'll all be better off by the same amount as a result of Brexit. Finances fluctuate, but principles don't change quite so readily and, IMO, are worth hanging on to. On that basis, I believe it's better to be free at the risk of being poorer, potentially at least, than it is to be forever imprisoned in the gilded EU cage.
Tim.

Damn lies indeed.

EU is a voluntary organisation. UK can leave if it wants to.

Becoming a member is more difficult than leaving!

A Member of the European Parliament (MEP) is a person who has been elected to serve as a popular representative in the European Parliament.[1]

When the European Parliament was first established, MEPs were directly appointed by the governments of member states from among those already sitting in their own national parliaments. Since 1979, however, MEPs have been elected by direct universal suffrage. Each member state establishes its own method for electing MEPs – and in some states this has changed over time – but the system chosen must be a form of proportional representation. In some member states the MEPs are elected to represent a single national constituency; in others they are elected from sub-national regions.


Each Commissioner is first nominated by their member state in consultation with the Commission President, although the President holds little practical power to force a change in candidate. The more capable the candidate is, the more likely the Commission President will assign them a powerful portfolio, the distribution of which is entirely at his discretion. The President's team is then subject to hearings at the European Parliament which will question them and then vote on their suitability as a whole. If members of the team are found to be inappropriate, the President must then reshuffle the team or request a new candidate from the member state or risk the whole Commission being voted down. As Parliament cannot vote against individual Commissioners there is usually a compromise whereby the worst candidates are removed but minor objections are put aside so the Commission can take office. Once the team is approved by parliament, it is formally put into office by the European Council (TEU Article 17:7).

In the last 40 years - just to repeat - 94% of all decisions have been voted for and agreed by UK.

This is likely to be one of the biggest chunk of works that will need to be re-incorporated back into English parliament.

 

[Splitlink]

Yeah, it probably is Split'. That said, the underlying point about not having to do what some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels dictates - still stands.

The Bloomberg article makes for alarming reading - if one chooses to believe it. My view is that it falls firmly into the third category of Disraeli's assessment about lies: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." I no more accept it's conclusions than I would if someone were to make out that we'll all be better off by the same amount as a result of Brexit. Finances fluctuate, but principles don't change quite so readily and, IMO, are worth hanging on to. On that basis, I believe it's better to be free at the risk of being poorer, potentially at least, than it is to be forever imprisoned in the gilded EU cage.
Tim.

From your side of the fence, it is, probably, true. Home is where you hang your hat, though, and we all have different ideas. I don't think that I live in a gilded cage. Perhaps, like the monkey, I look through the bars and think the ones looking in are the ones in the cage!

 

[counter_violent]

I don't understand you Remainians

What part of "the EU will fall apart" do you not understand ?
Not like it's a secret or anything. The whole world knows it's a big bag of sh*$e

 

[counter_violent]

Damn lies indeed.

EU is a voluntary organisation. UK can leave if it wants to.

Becoming a member is more difficult than leaving!

A Member of the European Parliament (MEP) is a person who has been elected to serve as a popular representative in the European Parliament.[1]

When the European Parliament was first established, MEPs were directly appointed by the governments of member states from among those already sitting in their own national parliaments. Since 1979, however, MEPs have been elected by direct universal suffrage. Each member state establishes its own method for electing MEPs – and in some states this has changed over time – but the system chosen must be a form of proportional representation. In some member states the MEPs are elected to represent a single national constituency; in others they are elected from sub-national regions.


Each Commissioner is first nominated by their member state in consultation with the Commission President, although the President holds little practical power to force a change in candidate. The more capable the candidate is, the more likely the Commission President will assign them a powerful portfolio, the distribution of which is entirely at his discretion. The President's team is then subject to hearings at the European Parliament which will question them and then vote on their suitability as a whole. If members of the team are found to be inappropriate, the President must then reshuffle the team or request a new candidate from the member state or risk the whole Commission being voted down. As Parliament cannot vote against individual Commissioners there is usually a compromise whereby the worst candidates are removed but minor objections are put aside so the Commission can take office. Once the team is approved by parliament, it is formally put into office by the European Council (TEU Article 17:7).

In the last 40 years - just to repeat - 94% of all decisions have been voted for and agreed by UK.

This is likely to be one of the biggest chunk of works that will need to be re-incorporated back into English parliament.

Phew, well that's a relief.

 

[Atilla]

I don't understand you Remainians

What part of "the EU will fall apart" do you not understand ?
Not like it's a secret or anything. The whole world knows it's a big bag of sh*$e

Oh yeah sorry Sparky, forgot you knew how things will turn out before everyone else.

Thanks for the heads up


Great plan by the way. Can't wait to see what other surprises you have for us.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Don't know about the EU falling apart, but the second biggest brick in the wall is on its way out. I doubt it will result in the dam breaking but it's certainly the biggest existential threat to the EU.

 

[timsk]

. . . Perhaps, like the monkey, I look through the bars and think the ones looking in are the ones in the cage!

You might very well think that Split' - and I think I know why. . .

As someone who's been going to Andalucía (yes, I know it's a long way from Barca, lol!) at least once a year for the last twenty and have lived there for two winters, I have been spellbound by the gargantuan sums of money that's been spent on massive infrastructure projects in the region, e.g. the high speed rail link from Malaga to Seville. While the debate about HS2 rumbles on and on here in the U.K. - in Spain they just get on and build it. Don't get me wrong, it's great - love it, but we all know where the money comes from that pays for it. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. And within the EU, it is the latter who pay for the former.
Tim.

PS. Cue Atilla to do a cut 'n paste job outlining how much more the U.K. gets out of the EU than it pays in!

 

[Atilla]

You might very well think that Split' - and I think I know why. . .

As someone who's been going to Andalucía (yes, I know it's a long way from Barca, lol!) at least once a year for the last twenty and have lived there for two winters, I have been spellbound by the gargantuan sums of money that's been spent on massive infrastructure projects in the region, e.g. the high speed rail link from Malaga to Seville. While the debate about HS2 rumbles on and on here in the U.K. - in Spain they just get on and build it. Don't get me wrong, it's great - love it, but we all know where the money comes from that pays for it. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. And within the EU, it is the latter who pay for the former.
Tim.

PS. Cue Atilla to do a cut 'n paste job outlining how much more the U.K. gets out of the EU than it pays in!

Well I can tell you dear Timsk, the UK pays more for the EU than it gets out.

We pay £350m a week and pay extra-ordinary billions as and when needed, as we did to bail out the Irish.

We gave up our fishing industry.

We buy all their cars and luxery items, not to mention food stuff like pizzas and wines.

We don't really sell them anything much as we prefer to sell to the rest of the World. At least we could do if the pesky Europeans didn't stop us from selling to the rest of the World.

They come over here and benefit from our NHS and favourable benefit system and they do absolute FA.

We teach them how to farm more efficiently and then they go back home and do it all for them selves.

They take our best brains for their space and defence R&D. They use our universities to reap better understanding of how the world works and then they naff off.

They can have Ireland and Scotland and Wales too. Be good to get rid of the lot of'm.


No links required mate it's all up in the head. So true dat is. God bless you if there was one for voting exit. Thanks to you many milliions of baby boomers retiring about now will get a decent pension and no longer queue waiting for hospital appointments.

Great call

 

[timsk]

. . .Great call

Apologies Atilla - I've obviously got the wrong end of the stick. All along, I've been labouring under the misapprehension you're on the remain side. My bad!

 

[barjon]

.........That said, the underlying point about not having to do what some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels dictates - still stands..........

As opposed to some unelected bureaucrat in Whitehall, say.