'Big Traders' = Irrelevant ?

No such thing as * SHOULD * . Is there a LAW that says we must go trough brokers ? NO .

So please , if you are unhappy with brokers do something about it and not this * misery loves company * nonsense .

matter of opinion but I'd rather have cheaper margins than expensive one , means my profits can be boosted up when I want to . important that: to maximise your profits .

So bottom line for small traders is : 4 pnts is nada when my per point value is really 3x what I can get on the dax futures .

Elect. trading is the MIDDLE MAN ; belongs to the broker . If you want to trade you better get used to it . MM are facts of life !
 
MMA

Whatever works for you good luck with it ... It seems from your posts that you believe that you know everything already so what you hope to gain from using this forum is a bit of a mystery.

You're right ... 'SHOULD' was the wrong word for me to use, I have no wish to try and tell people what to do ... I'll leave that to you - you're the expert after all.

... Oh and good luck with the training course I believe you are considering running. If your postings on here are any guide then it should be a real eye opener. :eek:
 
143.gif
 
I feel that I should say something here....
but mater and pater would be so disappointed with me........
 
Mines a pint

oatman said:

I've nominated Car key Boy to be member of the month for :
" His amazingly erudite insights into the damaged personality."


Sadly nominations are no longer being accepted.



:cheesy:
 
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* you're the expert after all. *

nope , never said that . These are just my views , that is allowed in your little world ?

* .. Oh and good luck with the training course I believe you are considering running. *

Rumours vicious rumours !

* man, so much bitterness . yuo haven't been laid for a long long time, right *

Bitter ? having an opinion is bitter ? And the word is spelt - you not yuo . You are weird aren't yuo ? ha ha .
 
I agree with u, Neil........Car key boi will always be my member of d month.........he just brings such a funny perspective to every discussion
 
grubs50 said:
I agree with u, Neil........Car key boi will always be my member of d month.........he just brings such a funny perspective to every discussion


And don't you just love the "IGNORE" function for excluding the rantings of celibate zealots, thus adding coherence and progression to the threads. :cheesy: :cheesy:
 
anyone who holds trades overnight is a gambler, not a trader

anyone who uses spreadbetting companies is a gambler, and not a trader ( this excludes the special deals which some spreadbetting companies can do for real traders, and if you are a gambler, you will never get a look in at this)

anyone who does not have a defined strategy providing them with a real profit 4 out of 5 days is a gambler, and not a trader ( and the loss day amount amounting to a very small loss)
 
* anyone who holds trades overnight is a gambler, not a trader *

Silly . Some of the greatest traders in the world hold overnight : Seykota , Tudor Jones , Eckhardt , Turtles to name but a few .

If that means being a * gambler * then so be it . better than being called a * trader * and paying CGT ! dumb !

* anyone who uses spreadbetting companies is a gambler, and not a trader *

So what , I save paying CGT on my gains and I'll be damned if any govt. is getting their hands on my hard earned winnings.
So you can give me what label you like as long as I don't pay CGT !
 
mma

"Silly . Some of the greatest traders in the world hold overnight : Seykota , Tudor Jones , Eckhardt , Turtles to name but a few "

the foundation of my trading philosiphies came from soros and jim rogers, both of whom would claim to be long term investors and both say they are crap at short term, let alone intra-day

and i used to trade long term when that was the style that suited the markets

but when my heroes and the guys you mentioned were doing their big stuff, markets used to move a lot differently, they were at the start of, or in a long term bull market, there were major major pricing efficiencies to take advantage of, markets took a long time to price in news, and there was a lot of arrogance and unqualified people in senior positons leading to major opportunities

BUT the world has changed big time, news is priced in real quick, and everyone and his brother got hold of the long term trading concept

all those lazy useless fund people and banks gambling other peoples money tell you its long term trading - so it is safe - yeh - right - and then they have ****ed everyone's money away and all the pension money with it - but they still pick up their fat salaries

if you hold a position overnight - you are not in control of the result of the trade, and if you are not in control, you are gambling

all long term trading does is cause people to take less trades - so the apparent volatility of their trading appears to drop, but on a time basis the volatiltiy would remain the same

"CGT"

the reason you dont pay CGT on spreadbetting is simply because the tax people treat spreadbetting as gambling - when the tax authourities looked at the books of the spreadbetting companies, they realised the would get **** all if they taxed people on profits - so instead the tax is at the source of the bet and the tax is included in your spread, so you ARE paying tax in the spreadbetting spread and also indirectly in tax thgat the spreadbetting companies are paying on their profits - and you are paying a premium for each trade, and that premium is money you just give away - you will find that you are paying a greater amount than if you paid normal taxation

but there is one key to CGT anyway, it is on profits - and regardless of offsetting - the spreadbetting companies have always been happy to say that they have no long term winners


the old experts who i do admire who used to trade long term were dealing with a different market and exploiting different pricing efficiencies

the new edge in trading is in the opportunity to use direct access electronic trading and electronic data access that gives the guy on the street the same opportunity as anyone else, the same opportunity as the big banks, funds etc - an individual can now even set up their own electrocic automated trading systems running off home computers and all this is still in its infancy -so there are still inefficiencies to be exploited, the market though has just moved on to new opportunities
 
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I think we are talking slightly different topics here now that you have explained a little more.

I would not consider holding for 2 nights as long term , and you can better do this with SB's coz they quote out of hours , on the main markets , I would not be so keen to do such.

Re tax : well , for me I would still avoid CGT or any tax like the plague , and if it's means paying a small spread then so be it.

yes , markets have changed dramatically and I agree with all you say on that .

But the sheer fact is that unless one has 10's of 1000's of pounds to play with , the main markets are out of reach , and SB's fill the void .
 
stevet - What time frame (1/5 min bar etc.)would a professional day trader, like yourself, be looking at when following the trend? How many trades would you normally take in a day? What is your best method of deciding when a trend has reversed?
 
mma

well i am not sure we are talking different topics although i admit that i fundamentally believe that trading non-intra day is dangerous - not just because of not being in control - but also as it lessons the learning curve since you are reducing the volatility of your trades and getting used to wider stops i suspect

and you can trade US markets after and before hours - but of course not European - but then again - i only stay in a trade if i am watching it, so seriously, having access after hours is not gonna help if you are watching TV or sleeping

and if you want to trade round the clock - you can trade US stuff

but regardless, to me entry is key, and if i have it wrong, i want to get out at a scratch if i can - and that is never going to happen with spreadbetting, as the spread is giving you a nasty loss from the get go

and re the small extra spead - basically you have to be twice as successful trading spreadbetting to overcome that little extra spread as you do trading futures, and that is a big number

i can absolutly see that it might seem that if you are trading longer term and looking for say a hundred points or more - then it may appear the spreadbetting spread is not so important, but getting a reasonable number of those successful trades to support a lifestyle is not easy and couple that with the unfortunate fact of the amount lost closing out positions which went wrong before you can establish a position that might make those 100 all adds up to a real dificult way to trade

contrast that with a range bound market, which trends within say 15 points all day long , and a bunch of long and short intraday postions can yield those 100pts, and yo get to sleep soundly

but yep, the the ability to trade with small amounts is where the speadbetting is fantastic and lets people get a feel for the whole thing and ironically offers the opportunity to even find out about trading since futures brokers are not even allowed to advertise themselves in this country - but i do really believe that once someone feels they are getting there - they need to ween themselves on spreadbetting and maybe start taking the pain of futures in order to move their learning on


Lambchops

before the market opens i study the charts in every time frame, and not just a market i might be planning to trade - also all associtate markets and in time frames up to a year period, 6 month, 3 month right down to one min - and during trading i mainly check 1 and 5 min, but always keep checking all other time frames

i do a number of types of trading so i am trading in hundreds, and i am trying to get into positions from the second the market opens to when it closes

i dont decide that a trend has changed ever - there is a point that everyone can see the market is failing and the market will then push the other way, and this push will result in a new reverse trend or will provide consolidation for the apparent failure and will in fact provide a sprinboard for a major move carrying on the prior trend
 
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Kilnside

thx - must of been thinking about what i do in bars when i have had too much ( or perhaps not enough!) - changed it to learning
 
Car key is the man

Car Key Boy - the implacable enemy of the mediocre :cheesy:
 
But the sheer fact is that unless one has 10's of 1000's of pounds to play with , the main markets are out of reach , and SB's fill the void .

mma

Not true.

Open an account with IB with say £2000 and you have direct access to mini-dow s&p500 and nasq futures and all currency futures. The dow for example needs only about £800 odd margin intra-day (double out-of-hours) and with an account minimum of £1400 you could lose £600 on your first trades (ouch!) and still be in the game.

pete
 
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