big bucks can only be made by professionals

[Trader333]

It depends what you mean by part time. Some of the most profitable traders I have come across trade only 30 mins a day because they do not day-trade. They look at their positions just once a day make any adjustments and that is it. They are still completely professional in their approach but they are not in front of a screen all day.


Paul

 

[Rhody Trader]

It depends what you mean by part time. Some of the most profitable traders I have come across trade only 30 mins a day because they do not day-trade. They look at their positions just once a day make any adjustments and that is it. They are still completely professional in their approach but they are not in front of a screen all day.

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Professionalism in trading is not timeframe dependent, nor trading style, nor instruments, nor information used, nor trading tools.

 

[FUTEX]

sorry to butt in on this thread:

I never was sure what the distinction is between trading and investing.

But I do have a pretty clear idea of what ONE form of trading is:

To me trading is immersing yourself in your makets, being prepared to make prices, and being prepared to do that, for the most part, day in day out (now that is not the same definition as day trading although there are crossovers).

So, gents if were discussing trading, in a pure sense (as opposed to say long term postions) , then I have to go along with the professional approach .

 

[Rhody Trader]

To me trading is immersing yourself in your makets, being prepared to make prices, and being prepared to do that, for the most part, day in day out (now that is not the same definition as day trading although there are crossovers).

This sounds like market making to me. Definitely a version of trading, but one which doesn't really involve position taking.

 

[FUTEX]

getting back to Big Bucks Can Only be Made by Professionals:

I wholeheatedly agree. There is no short cut, despite stories you may hear. All of our top traders at Futex have done it through a professional approach and it has taken months of hard graft and keeping 100% in tune with the markets to get their trading and their trading accounts into tip top shape.

By way of comparison, I have seen many traders who think they can get by with a less than pro approach and I have never seen one of those guys make it big, NEVER.

Im sure people will reply to this post with anecdotes, even using futex traders as examples, but whats in the press does not show the drive and endless days and weeks of trading 7am til 9pm that many traders have put into learning and exploiting their field.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Hoo Yaaa. The best dont rest.

Im sure people will reply to this post with anecdotes, even using futex traders as examples, but whats in the press does not show the drive and endless days and weeks of trading 7am til 9pm that many traders have put into learning and exploiting their field.

Pump the market's all week and the cat's come weekends.

There's nothin like feeling coin in the morning. Colonel Coin.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

By way of comparison, I have seen many traders who think they can get by with a less than pro approach and I have never seen one of those guys make it big, NEVER.

Agree

 

[combotrader]

Professionalism and dedication aside, the size of your capital is vital. Starting out with
5K means you will have to find 5K again when its all gone. Its also very different risking 0.5% of a 50k account as opposed to risking 2-3% of a 10k account. Not many starting out have the discipline to keep their risk to 0.5-1% of a 10k account. So they risk more when they are on a good spell. Bad habits stay for an awful longtime.

 

[bluetipex]

I know thats all a lot of things but thats what you are competing against.

Why do you view trading as a competition?

This may sound strange but I trade from home every day. I NEVER regard my efforts as COMPETING against anybody. I think that if I held that frame of reference each morning when I turned on my laptops I'd already be at a disadvantage.

What I have in my mind is to try and maintain my discipline, and only take my setups when and if they occur. Nothing else. In other words I'm competing with MYSELF.

I don't care about news (other than making sure I'm flat when news is released). What interest rates, or oil etc does in my view is irrelevant. I simply watch my charts and trade what I see.

I agree with your general premise however, and Professional = Disciplined.

But having your Trading Metaphor as "competing" against the pros really is destructive in my view.

 

[charliechan]

...However I have yet to meet a successful trader who dabbles part-time or who is not set up in a professional manner.
The message is : Dedication & Professionalism

i should point out that the 1% who make it and are pulling down BIG money, do trade part time.

they have learned patience, and know when events are likely to happen and when to look for opportunities. they do trade part time because one shouldnt be in the market all the time. its the strugglers that sit in front of proffessional set up for 10 hours a day. lets face it, its boaring, and most overtrade. people do it though because they feel the need to 'work hours' to justify the money they intend to make imo. the sooner a trader gets this the more chance he has (again imo)

just turn up for the numbers and the speeches, and spend the rest of your time enjoying life. thats why we're traders isnt it? if id have wanted to spend 10hrs a day in front of a desk, id have got a job at widget services ltd.

 

[charliechan]

It depends what you mean by part time. Some of the most profitable traders I have come across trade only 30 mins a day because they do not day-trade. They look at their positions just once a day make any adjustments and that is it. They are still completely professional in their approach but they are not in front of a screen all day.


Paul

lol. you beat me to it! good example of my point above

 

[charliechan]

sorry to butt in on this thread:

I never was sure what the distinction is between trading and investing....

.

investing is putting your money somewhere for the return - dividend or yield. that income is the purpose for putting your money there, rather than speculating on future price of the asset - which (imo) is trading.

?

 

[nine]

investing is putting your money somewhere for the return - dividend or yield. that income is the purpose for putting your money there, rather than speculating on future price of the asset - which (imo) is trading?

Not quite charlie, Most investors expect capital appreciation as well as income. This is true be they share, property or object investors. I would say that traders are people who buy and sell with the intention of doing it repeatedly (frequently perhaps) and usually for periods of less than a year.


On the subject of the thread I'd agree with most of the posters although I might only be agreeing because our terms are ill defined (like what is big money).

Personally I think that to make good money (say be in the top 10% income bracket for a start) you need to be professional in your approach to the markets, in your approach to training yourself and to keeping your edge.

Once you have completed your first few years and become effective I don't think you have to spend hours every day if you have a slower style or event based style. But as a professional you will spend the hours required and also put in the extra hours if your monitoring detects a problem in your performance.

I don't think you need to have expensive equipment, data feeds, or news feeds unless they are part of your trading style. A sole trader has a few advantages over the institutional trader including the smaller size of his or her activity. So he can make good money running niches that professionals would probably ignore because they couldn't get adequate positions if they traded the same way.

I am a day trader and I trade the opening 90 minutes of one market plus a forex market that is often active in the same period then take a couple of hours off to do stuff and have lunch before returning for 180 minutes trading the afternoon and close of two markets plus the forex market. I trade short term so need little preparation but do put in extra hours researching alternative strategies because I have seen my good producers fall off and need replacing in the past.

 

[police]

an excellent post Nine,

I agree with your observations with one adjustment (there is always one on T2W). It is this:
Yes you can find a niche without getting "wired in", however I do not believe you can hit the big time in trading without getting "wired in". You can continue in your niche making some money, but you will never MAX OUT. Maxing out isnt about getting one dream trade done, its about getting great trades done on an ever more consistent basis.

I dont see the point in giving up spare time or a career in other areas to spend time trading unless its with some kind of personal belief to be The Best Trader You Can Be.

Maybe I am agressive , but if you want to make BIG BUCKS, make trading something meaningful, then you have to put your heart and soul into it, you cannot do that without being TOTALLY PROFESSIONAL in your approach. You can not be totally professional if you are not WIRED IN.

Lets put it another way: if we agree 90% dont make money, what percent of them are wired in professionally? prob most of them are not.
Now, lets look at 10% that do make money; what percent of them are wired in? prob most of them are

 

[nine]

I might agree with you but I can't tell at present. Can you help me with some more definition?

What are:
"wired in";
"totally wire in"; and
"wired in professionally".

 

[police]

WIRED-IN :
meaning connected to the market.
To expand it means having an adequate line to your market, from the point of view of communications, electronics and information flows; news and market specific information, a hotline into a good broker(even if u dont use him for execution), an ability to get price volume information(charts) and probably a few other necessities depending where u might be seeking an edge

 

[trader_dante]

WIRED-IN :
meaning connected to the market.
To expand it means having an adequate line to your market, from the point of view of communications, electronics and information flows; news and market specific information, a hotline into a good broker(even if u dont use him for execution), an ability to get price volume information(charts) and probably a few other necessities depending where u might be seeking an edge

I completely disagree with this.

To make "big bucks" the only thing you need to be wired into is your own mind.

 

[trader_dante]

WIRED-IN :
meaning connected to the market.
To expand it means having an adequate line to your market, from the point of view of communications, electronics and information flows; news and market specific information, a hotline into a good broker(even if u dont use him for execution), an ability to get price volume information(charts) and probably a few other necessities depending where u might be seeking an edge

Infact, I would go so far as to say that the elements you list here are the very things that will cause most traders to LOSE money over time.

 

[grantx]

Police,

Apart from news content, what edge does a Reuters or Bloomberg offer over and above the retail vendors?

Grant.

 

[combotrader]

Police

Are you a news trader ? Hence your description of being wired in....

The wiring of your mind is what you have to untangle to stop doing silly things and learn what risk really means imo...