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[TALENT4321]

Good advice

As I am a beginner I am looking to effectively trade with 'make believe / monopoly /paper' money.

I have heard that you can open an account (register) with a company that will allow you to run a portfollio although it is effectively a game and the money you are trading is only fictional.

This way you can see how you would do if it was real money and learn from your mistakes. I know it is a bit ammature but I am wanting to make sure I am learning properly. When I am confident I will trade on a excecution only trading account buying and selling myself

I am only looking to trade normal shares in the LSE and AIM Markets.

So if I lose everything to begin with it wont be my real money.

I hope you can help

Thanks

Peter

 

[temptrader]

This brings to mind something I read not long ago:

Alex and I were just in Vegas speaking at a seminar for the Traders' Expo. The room was silent and tumbleweed went by as topics such as mental discipline, money management and psychology were discussed. The slides switched to the trading setups and instantly the whole crowd perked up like watching an accident happen in real time on the highway. They wanted to know "does this guru have the holy grail??" What they do not realize is the first "boring" part of the seminar is the holy grail.

There are no secrets. More than a few members have laid out in detail everything one needs to know to make more money than he knows what to do with. But unless the toddler is taken by the hand and told Enter here and Exit there, he considers the information to be worthless; it "doesn't work".

The secret is doing the work. But to nearly all beginners, "doing the work" means finding the newsletter, trading room, advisory service, off-the-shelf system, course, indicator suite, etc. that will make them rich with no effort and no risk.

If it's true that 95% of traders fail, it's not because trading is insurmountably difficult; it's because 95% of traders just don't try.

Db

dbphoenix,

I never said there were any secrets, but no consistent trader is going to give away his edge, that's my point. If it were just a bunch of "cookbook" recipes that you mechanically follow then ANYONE can do it, and that does not seem to be the case.

Most newbies don't know what they are letting themselves in for when they try to start out in this profession, the constant losing and doubt, the odd highs here and there, the times when you blow most of your account because you got carried away etc. . . all that emotional roller coaster and more, and that's not even mentioning the WORK involved which they think is not much but you and I know is a phenomenal amount that has to be done.

 

[dbphoenix]

dbphoenix,

I never said there were any secrets, but no consistent trader is going to give away his edge, that's my point. If it were just a bunch of "cookbook" recipes that you mechanically follow then ANYONE can do it, and that does not seem to be the case.

Most newbies don't know what they are letting themselves in for when they try to start out in this profession, the constant losing and doubt, the odd highs here and there, the times when you blow most of your account because you got carried away etc. . . all that emotional roller coaster and more, and that's not even mentioning the WORK involved which they think is not much but you and I know is a phenomenal amount that has to be done.

This is not likely the place for this discussion, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There are a number of members who've "given away" their edge. But if those who might otherwise benefit from it can't be bothered to bend over and pick it up, that's hardly the fault of the giver.

As for the "emotional roller coaster", that's a direct result of jumping into the market before one is ready. Talent4321 is showing a refreshing degree of sense, but others insist on trading with plans that at best resemble swiss cheese.

Db

 

[temptrader]

This is not likely the place for this discussion, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There are a number of members who've "given away" their edge. But if those who might otherwise benefit from it can't be bothered to bend over and pick it up, that's hardly the fault of the giver.

As for the "emotional roller coaster", that's a direct result of jumping into the market before one is ready. Talent4321 is showing a refreshing degree of sense, but others insist on trading with plans that at best resemble swiss cheese.

Db

Not meaning to be smug, but it's my belief that everyone goes through the roller coaster, it's sort of like a rites of passage as it were. I seriously believe there are very few traders who make it automatically overnight. Nothing really prepares you for all the emotions involved when you put on real money, it really is that bad.

 

[tune]

Not meaning to be smug, but it's my belief that everyone goes through the roller coaster, it's sort of like a rites of passage as it were. I seriously believe there are very few traders who make it automatically overnight. Nothing really prepares you for all the emotions involved when you put on real money, it really is that bad.

Perhaps you can, if you take a real time simulator seriously. I mean, if you can't fly the sim, they sure as hell won't let you fly the plane.

 

[dbphoenix]

Not meaning to be smug, but it's my belief that everyone goes through the roller coaster, it's sort of like a rites of passage as it were. I seriously believe there are very few traders who make it automatically overnight. Nothing really prepares you for all the emotions involved when you put on real money, it really is that bad.

Those who go through the "roller coaster" do so because of inadequate preparation. There is no inherent reason for the emotionalism. Those who do go through it, however, believe that everyone must, just as those who can't trade without indicators believe that no one can.

Db

 

[temptrader]

Perhaps you can, if you take a real time simulator seriously. I mean, if you can't fly the sim, they sure as hell won't let you fly the plane.

I fly RC planes myself, but the sim is nowhere near as good as the real thing.

However, the difference in what you put forward is what we would call "live rounds" and what's at stake.

Here's what's at stake if you can make it in this game:

1) you are not obligated in a 9 - 5 job anymore
2) you are basically "free" and your use of time is flexible
3) you have no "boss"
4) you can do what you want and when you want to do it

The "live rounds" refers to real money. Whereas paper trading you can pretend or "pretend to pretend" as it were, real money you are playing with the reality, there is SO much more at stake, and that's not a trivial matter emotionally.

If you fly a sim and then you fly a plane then that's fine. Worse thing that could happen in a sim is you crash. Worse thing that could happen in a real plane is if you crash, but you'd know all the signs beforehand and have a bail out option (parachute), and since most aircraft are extremely well maintained there is little chances of crashing, and they would never let you fly solo unless you are extremely experienced.

When you put REAL money on a trade that is your livelihood on the line, because overall failure means that you have to do what the rest are doing (going back to a regular job, suck up to people in charge of you, being obligated to a 9 - 5 position etc. . . ).

Those who go through the "roller coaster" do so because of inadequate preparation. There is no inherent reason for the emotionalism. Those who do go through it, however, believe that everyone must, just as those who can't trade without indicators believe that no one can.

I don't use indicators, have paid for one in the past realising it was just a "placebo" and nothing more. All I can tell you is what I've been through. They say trading is an old man's game, and this probably refers to the fact that the older you get the more in control of your emotions you are.

But I don't know anyone who makes it immediately, but that's just me. My view is that for life to give you your "freedom" as it were, there is ALWAYS a price that must be paid. If it were just a question of adequate preparation then I'm sure more people would be able to "cross the line".

An example is Van Tharp and Alexander Elder. I know that they both can't trade, because they make their money from seminars and writing books that should not be written. I do wonder when they'd bother to get off their asses and practice what they preach, but it seems to me that they probably tried it and failed and reverted to writing about something that they themselves cannot do.

 

[dbphoenix]

But I don't know anyone who makes it immediately, but that's just me. My view is that for life to give you your "freedom" as it were, there is ALWAYS a price that must be paid. If it were just a question of adequate preparation then I'm sure more people would be able to "cross the line".

I never said that one could "make it immediately". I said that all the emotionalism is characteristic of inadequate preparation. That more people don't "cross the line" appears to have more to do with the amount of work involved than anything else. Very few of those who come to me for help will stop trading while they're learning how to do it. This speaks to personal problems that go beyond whatever difficulties they have in making a success of trading.

The price that must be paid is the work, not wallowing in emotional angst. Witness trader dante's thread. How many people will fail at what he's demonstrated can be done because they're not willing to put in the time to understand the underpinnings of the whole thing? How many will choose instead to trade it immediately, find little or no success with it, then announce with that particular authority peculiar to the novice that it "doesn't work"?

 

[darktone]

Those who go through the "roller coaster" do so because of inadequate preparation.

Its not as black and white as that imo. You can prepare all you like but when you step up to the plate and its on the line.. Its different!... That takes a little getting used too!

 

[dbphoenix]

Its not as black and white as that imo. You can prepare all you like but when you step up to the plate and its on the line.. Its different!... That takes a little getting used too!

A little getting used to, of course. But not ecstatic euphoria or suicidal depression or paralyzing fear. The most one should "feel" when putting on a trade is curiosity.

Db

 

[nealpek]

platforms for ib

I'm looking for an easy front end for( Stocks) interactive brokers, as I find it a bit complicated.

Any suggestions?
Neal

This new sticky thread is targeted to all new members and existing members who are making their first posts.

In this thread, feel free to ask ANY question relating to trading, however simple you think it is. Our forum advisors and more senior members will be happy to answer them for you! :smart:

:!: If you think your question requires more than a quick reply, it's best to create a new thread in the appropriate forum, so that a discussion about it can develop.

 

[TALENT4321]

Thanks for all the advice guys

However, I am none the wiser on my path to find a simulator. In summary what I can make from it is that I will learn from my mistakes and dont expect to fly first time. I think this is true, but on top of this I want to try and limit my mistakes and this can be done initially on a simulator.

Please can someone recconmend some decent free simulators that will resemble the real thing but I dont have to waste investment money using

Thanks

Peter

 

[timsk]

Please can someone recconmend some decent free simulators that will resemble the real thing but I dont have to waste investment money using

Hi Peter,
You're very wise to paper trade first before using real money. Contrary to a comment in your earlier post, it's not amateurish at all, in fact it's very sensible. After all, if you can't make a profit via simulated trading, you're highly unlikely to make one using real money.
Many brokerages offer Sim' trading when you open an account with them, so that you can become familiar with their trading platform. Whilst testing the profitability of your strategy is vital, having a platform that you are comfortable with and offers the right features at the right price is also an important consideration. Who you opt for is governed to some extent by the type of trader you are and the eventual size of your account. If you intend to swing or position trade LSE stocks, then you might want to consider a spread betting account. If you want to day trade, you may want a direct access broker with level II access which will steer you in a different direction. Most SB firms offer a free trial - which I know you said you didn't want - but hey, it's better than nothing. Also, some of them let you trade for very small sums of money - e.g. 1p a point - so your risk is strictly limited. For the reasons given, it makes sense to sim' trade with the broker you intend to use with real money, so this is where I'd begin my search if I were you.
Tim.

 

[TALENT4321]

Thanks - That is very good advice.

My only concern about trading very small amounts is that I am aurtomatiocally at a loss due to stamp / commission / transaction charges.

Although I think your point is very prudent and I shall follow this and look for the free trial.

Thanks

Peter

 

[timsk]

My only concern about trading very small amounts is that I am aurtomatiocally at a loss due to stamp / commission / transaction charges.

Peter,
Spread betting companies are controversial and this isn't the right thread to discuss their pro's and con's. That said, profits are tax free (under current U.K. tax laws), the commission is 'built in' to the bid/offer spread, so you don't pay any commission fees as such and there's no stamp duty to pay. This sounds like an ad' in favour of SB firms - which it isn't meant to be. Without doubt, they have their drawbacks - lots of em', but they are often the first port of call for many traders starting out.
Tim.

 

[rs1]

MiNY Crude OIL versus full-size contract

Hi,

This is an excellent site with some good forums. I have been lurking for a little while and here is my first post and first question. Hope somebody can help.

I am looking into trading crude oil and thought that the minY would be the way to go initially but it seems as though the tick size on the miNY (12.5 USD) is larger than the tick size on the full-size contract (10 USD).

Have I got that right or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for the help

rs

 

[temptrader]

I'm looking for an easy front end for( Stocks) interactive brokers, as I find it a bit complicated.

Any suggestions?
Neal

TSim and TSim+ are shortcut front ends that talk to IB.

My advice is to totally be proficient in using IB before you even bother with a different front end for the following reasons:

1) things happen, and the worse thing that could happen is you could be in a trade and not know how to use the interface to close/amend or the front end crashes. If you know IB inside out then you are prepared for this
2) use front ends at your own risk, in my experience (and I trade the DOW) they are NOT needed
3) always have IB's phone number of their help desk just in case

 

[kettle]

Royal Petroleum corp

This new sticky thread is targeted to all new members and existing members who are making their first posts.

In this thread, feel free to ask ANY question relating to trading, however simple you think it is. Our forum advisors and more senior members will be happy to answer them for you! :smart:

:!: If you think your question requires more than a quick reply, it's best to create a new thread in the appropriate forum, so that a discussion about it can develop.

Hi I am new to trading. I have bought shares in Royal Petroleum Corp upon the advice of broker. How is it doing? Are there any press reports about its future? I have lots of questions in my mind and will browse through your site.

 

[nine]

Kettle,

You might consider this pathway and where you are on it. But remember: never trust a broker
(if he knew how to trade he'd be a trader not a salesman).

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...ngs-i-ve-found-net-post401168.html#post401168

Royal Petroleum Corp - Google Search

and a thread here about them:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/24122-royal-petroleum-corp.html

Did you really buy this? I think you've been sleazed so I hope you didn't spend too much on it as "never buying a broker's recommendation" is an excellent lesson to learn. Commiserations.
.

 

[temptrader]

But remember: never trust a broker
(if he knew how to trade he'd be a trader not a salesman).

Absolutely correct. I NEVER take any stock recommendations from mine, I use them to sort out any technical questions/problems about my IB interface etc. . . I don't discuss, and am not interested in their tips or trading systems/methods or newletters that they might do, it would just get in the way.