APW Australia Portfolio Wines

[victorious]

ouch.. so there seems to be really no way out from cellar link without any further losses, isn't there? so we also have to pay VAT even just to dispose/destroy the wines then? how about gift? any suggestion? .. we just want to exit from cellar link.. but it's just sooo expensive to exit really stuck.. can't afford to continue, can't afford to exit either..

 

[pboyles]

ouch.. so there seems to be really no way out from cellar link without any further losses, isn't there? so we also have to pay VAT even just to dispose/destroy the wines then? how about gift? any suggestion? .. we just want to exit from cellar link.. but it's just sooo expensive to exit really stuck.. can't afford to continue, can't afford to exit either..

Victorious,

Are you sure that the wine even exists? Its supposed to be stored in the UK, right? What about getting someone to inspect the wine, to actually go to the location and look for it. I mean if it exists, and I'm not sure it does, then it has to be stored somewhere.

 

[pboyles]

ouch.. so there seems to be really no way out from cellar link without any further losses, isn't there? so we also have to pay VAT even just to dispose/destroy the wines then? how about gift? any suggestion? .. we just want to exit from cellar link.. but it's just sooo expensive to exit really stuck.. can't afford to continue, can't afford to exit either..

My point on the VAT was that if they charge you VAT and then do not pay the VAT (for whatever reason) then they are entering dangerous territory, essentially VAT fraud.

 

[victorious]

aah.. i see what you mean thanks a lot for the info pboyles

actually the best way for us to exit from cellar link is to auction the wines with no reserve, but cellar link doesn't want to do this even if we instructed them to do so.. cellar link should have done the auction long time ago.. we have been keeping the wines for nearly 10 years now.. cellar link make it so damn hard for us just to exit

 

[victorious]

i am not even sure they are even exists, but i don't live in UK and don't know anyone in UK to check the wines on cellar link storage

Victorious,

Are you sure that the wine even exists? Its supposed to be stored in the UK, right? What about getting someone to inspect the wine, to actually go to the location and look for it. I mean if it exists, and I'm not sure it does, then it has to be stored somewhere.

 

[pboyles]

i am not even sure they are even exists, but i don't live in UK and don't know anyone in UK to check the wines on cellar link storage

It could be organised.

Why dont you ask them exactly where it is stored? Their answer will give you an excellent idea bout whether or not you bought fresh air.

 

[victorious]

hmm.. right. i will ask them on Monday then.. thanks a lot pboyles

 

[wstaton]

Just to let people know. I got a "Statement of Claim" from Cellarlink and have responded with a defence.

My Ist reply in defence was

1 The defendant denies the allegations in paragraph 4. The total claimed by the plaintiff is not outstanding, as the plaintiff has not completed the work agreed to be performed.

Stating that they have consistently refused to sell my wine.

I have also mentioned that the value of my wine is greater than what is owed and they refuse to accept a forfeit in lieu thus begging the fact why not and does this wine even exist.

I have also send a large screed of to a couple of local TV stations to see if they will take this up.

I will update when I get some results.

Cheers

Wilf.

 

[pboyles]

I have also mentioned that the value of my wine is greater than what is owed and they refuse to accept a forfeit in lieu thus begging the fact why not and does this wine even exist.

Wilf.

Exactly, it has happened before, one of the stories I posted was about one of these companies had only ever purchased one case of wine.

As I mentioned earlier I think it would be wise to push them on inspecting the wine, wherever it is located, I mean if it exists it has to be located somewhere. If you get a load of excuses then you'll know what they are up to.

 

[wineghost]

Hi, I am new here. I worked in the wine industry for almot 20 years including the time Heritage, APW, Uvine and Wine Orb started and ended. During this time I met all of the key people involved. I have seen and heard all of the stories before. I was also cold called by these companies and listened to their sales pitches. I have invested in wine (not through these companies) and have done this successfully.

Hopefully I can answer any questions and help people stop loosing money.

Some of these companies were a complete scam. They constantly sold wine that they did not have.

All of these companies operated legally (except when selling what they did not have) but also unethically.

The biggest problem is that they sold "investment packages" which contained, entirely or partially, wine which was never going to appreciate in value. Many reasons for this: unknown winery; unknown wine (ie made specifically for one of these companies); wrong variety (white wines in general do not appreciate in value); bad vintage, etc. The other fundamental reason is that investors paid too much for their "investments".

However, I dont think it is illegal for any investment company to sell something which never appreciates in value. Buyer beware?

All of that said these companies are only interested in getting you to buy something which you should not!

If you own wine from one of these companies, you should sell it at any cost and get out! It will never appreciate in value. You will never get your money back.

If you can physically get it, do so. If you can't (ie if wine is in the UK and you are not) get in touch with a local auction house and see if they can get it on your behalf if you agree to sell it through them. If you have to pay a transfer / handling fee to get it out, do it.

Do not believe any "marketing campaign about to start and we expect record prices" stories. Do not believe "our advice is better tahn anyone else's", or "we are starting to market wine to XXX country where we will get record prices".

I dont think any of these businesses ever had an exit strategy apart from contacting a wine auction house on your behalf (and taking a commission for doing so).

 

[wineghost]

ouch.. so there seems to be really no way out from cellar link without any further losses, isn't there? so we also have to pay VAT even just to dispose/destroy the wines then? how about gift? any suggestion? .. we just want to exit from cellar link.. but it's just sooo expensive to exit really stuck.. can't afford to continue, can't afford to exit either..

you can sell wine "in bond" so then you do not have to pay the VAT. This is common in the UK. But the buyer pays the VAT so you shgould expect to get the market price - VAT. You should also be abel to transfer your wine to another "bonded warehouse" without paying VAT. I imagine they will change you transfer fees to do this.

 

[victorious]

You should also be abel to transfer your wine to another "bonded warehouse" without paying VAT. I imagine they will change you transfer fees to do this.

really don't want to transfer and stuck with another contract.. just want to exit from cellar link and get rid all of this.. and it doesn't make sense to pay high price just to get rid of these..

 

[victorious]

cellar link

Just to let people know. I got a "Statement of Claim" from Cellarlink and have responded with a defence.
Wilf.

Actually, I wonder if cellar link or eamonn egan can sue people to force them paying a storage and insurance fee indefinitely?

Seems like according to the Warehouse Lien Act:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+19+1935+cd+0+N

cellar link can sell the goods, but shouldn't be able to sue customers in order to have the goods stored with them indefinitely. Especially when the customer already told cellar link that they want to walk away and willing to loose the goods.

But as the goods is in London, I wonder what's the law over there? Anyone know more about this?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Stormfront]

Hello Everyone,

I've only just stumbled onto this forum now and despite being one of the APW/Cellar Link victims; am strangely relieved to find I am not alone in this dilemma.

Like some others have already posted, my wine is supposedly being stored in the LCB bonded warehouse facility in Glasgow. There seems to be significant fees to remove the wine or even arrange a quote to do so. Can someone kindly summarise what the various actions could be apart from continuing to dutifully pay the quarterly fees?

Does anyone else get a different (and recently employed) staff member when they call up Cellar Link?

Regards,

Stormfront

 

[wstaton]

Sorry Guys,

My website is down for a rather hilarious reason. I had accidentally bought my domain name when I was logged onto one of my customers sites.

He got a call from you know who, threatened to sue him. I apologized to him and said I would get it transferred to my account as I used the same registrar. I manage his registrar account. I had come back to my PC and was still logged on and forgot I was not logged onto my account. Anyway I arranged to have it transferred to my account but found that it was going to cost me $140 to do so. Instead I decided to delete it rather than pay this. Unfortunately it is still stuck and cannot be used again until it expires.

Anyway I signed up for a new domain and transferred my blog to it. It is now

http://www.mycellarlinks.com.au

Now about this suing. A domain name is just a pointer to a container to hold a website it is the website that situated on the host that is the culprit and the person who developed the website not the owner of the domain name.

This threatened suing is like someone owning a house and renting it and threatening to sue the owner because of something the renter did. Apart from this if I had put a page up on facebook and facebook being sued for something I put on it.

Anyway the website is back up and both the domain name and the website are mine.

I guess Eamonn Egan is now well aware of this forum so I guess he may sue Tradewinds now for all the comments placed here.

Cheers

Wilf.

 

[victorious]

cellar link

Hi Stormfront,

it seems that the most cost effective way to exit from cellar link is to walk away and let go the wines. just give away the wines to cellar link, stop the payment. theoricallty cellar link can do 12.2 of their t&c:

which is:
----------------------------------
12.2 In addition Cellar Link shall have a lien on all Products, any other good held in the Storage Facility on the Customer's behalf and any document relating to them for all sums payable by the Customer to Cellar Link. If any amount due and payable to Cellar Link by the Customer is not paid in full within six (6) weeks of the due date, Cellar Link may, without further notice, take any or all of the following actions: dispose of and/or sell the Products or other goods by public auction or private treaty on such terms as Cellar Link may determine. Cellar Link may also require payment of default action costs, including any cost associated with the seizure of the Customer's Products, Any excess moneys recovered by Cellar Link on disposal will be returned to the Customer.
----------------------------------

also according to the Warehouse Lien Act:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fu...19+1935+cd+0+N

cellar link can sell the goods, but shouldn't be able to force people to keep renting the storage.

but i am not a lawyer, so hopefully someone else know know more about this can give inputs..

 

[wstaton]

Welcome Stormfront,

Glad to see more people finding out about this.

My intention is to get more exposure so that we find more people who are being treated this way.

Wilf.

 

[victorious]

cellar link

Sorry Guys,

My website is down for a rather hilarious reason. I had accidentally bought my domain name when I was logged onto one of my customers sites.

He got a call from you know who, threatened to sue him. I apologized to him and said I would get it transferred to my account as I used the same registrar. I manage his registrar account. I had come back to my PC and was still logged on and forgot I was not logged onto my account. Anyway I arranged to have it transferred to my account but found that it was going to cost me $140 to do so. Instead I decided to delete it rather than pay this. Unfortunately it is still stuck and cannot be used again until it expires.

Anyway I signed up for a new domain and transferred my blog to it. It is now

Finding Fine Wines | But Beware of Wine Investing Scams

Now about this suing. A domain name is just a pointer to a container to hold a website it is the website that situated on the host that is the culprit and the person who developed the website not theowner of the domain name.

This threatened suing is like someone owning a house and renting it and threatening to sue the owner because of something the renter did. Apart from this if I had put a page up on facebook and facebook being sued for something I put on it.

Anyway the website is back up and both the domain name and the website are mine.

I guess Eamonn Egan is now well aware of this forum so I guess he may sue Tradewinds now for all the comments placed here.

Cheers

Wilf.

wow!! eamonn egan is suing everyone for illogical reason..

btw, creating facebook page for this matter is also a good idea, like:

why won't Australian Wine Index (Singapore) try to sell my wines? | Facebook

that facebook page has a good rank too for many relevant keywords.

it will give additional publicity to cellar link

 

[Kangaroostu]

5 years ago I bought a small portfolio from APW. I fell for the sales pitch sadly. Earlier this year I wanted to sell my collection as I needed the money and that my 5 years storage would be up in December 2011. In March I sold the better part of my collection. It represented about 30% of my totally outlay. I was not entirley happy with the price but I agreed. It took four months and countless phone calls and emails before the cheque arrived.

Now I need to sell the remainder of the collection but so far I have been unable to speak or get anyone to return my calls. My 'free' storage expires next month and I will not be paying a penny more to keep my wine.

What are my options here? I feel as though I may as well just write it off and tick another box on my idiot list. I would value your opinions though.

Cheers.
KS

 

[Stormfront]

The potential deletion of this thread is of concern too. How does one copy the entire thread offline?

Also, is the wine still in LCB's warehouse or is it one of Cellar Link'sown facilities?

Way too many unknowns for a true investment. This really is becoming an expensive and drawn out life lesson.

Good luck to all involved and thanks for the support.

Stormfront